C.M. Jones
Diamond Member
Well stated, and I appreciate your use of "tone."
Drum dial or Tunebot?
- Thread starter Stuflyer
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Well stated, and I appreciate your use of "tone."
Stroman
Diamond Member
That is an absurd assertion. What is the issue with people using a tool to help them get their drums to sound more like they want them to?
The OP asked for people's experiences and the differences between tuning devises, not whether he should use them. IDK - your position and posts are beginning to come across as snobby and elitist to me.
It measures frequency, not water pressure. Water pressure is measured by the force of the water pressing against the walls of the pipe. Its measured in PSI. And you can't measure PSI standing in the shower. You need a pressure gauge in the line itself.
Frequency is measured in a wave. The distance between peaks or troughs gives you your wavelength. The amount of waves produced over a given amount of time gives us frequency.
Drums produce a frequency. It is something that can be scientifically measured, reproduced, and manipulated. And if it produces a frequency, it can be tuned to a note.
Larry
"Uncle Larry"
I take issue with the statement that drums can't be tuned to pitches.
I can get definite notes from my drums. OK they aren't exactly pitch perfect, but they are easily close enough to discern. With 3 toms my tuning is...high tom to a certain pitch I have memorized, the middle tom a 4th below the high tom, and the floor tom an octave below the high tom.
The point I'm making is if I couldn't discern the note from the high tom, I couldn't discern the 4th and the octave below that note. Like I said, it's close enough to discern.
I use the "Here Comes The Bride" interval between the high and middle toms. I hear the notes/pitches just fine, I don't understand why it's said that drums can't be tuned to notes. I can get my drums to sound like notes, I do it all the time. My toms are tuned to notes/pitches from a chord that resolves, yum.
Tympani players do it everyday. The note a tympani makes, again, is close enough. Tympani only has 1 head, but it's still a membranophone, just like our drums. If tympani players can tune their membranophones to definite pitches/notes...then drumset players can do it too.
The tunebots are a godsend. Tuning drums is a bitch. And we could use the help.
I can get definite notes from my drums. OK they aren't exactly pitch perfect, but they are easily close enough to discern. With 3 toms my tuning is...high tom to a certain pitch I have memorized, the middle tom a 4th below the high tom, and the floor tom an octave below the high tom.
The point I'm making is if I couldn't discern the note from the high tom, I couldn't discern the 4th and the octave below that note. Like I said, it's close enough to discern.
I use the "Here Comes The Bride" interval between the high and middle toms. I hear the notes/pitches just fine, I don't understand why it's said that drums can't be tuned to notes. I can get my drums to sound like notes, I do it all the time. My toms are tuned to notes/pitches from a chord that resolves, yum.
Tympani players do it everyday. The note a tympani makes, again, is close enough. Tympani only has 1 head, but it's still a membranophone, just like our drums. If tympani players can tune their membranophones to definite pitches/notes...then drumset players can do it too.
The tunebots are a godsend. Tuning drums is a bitch. And we could use the help.
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Frank
Gold Member
You lost most of us with that one statement. If you can't hear the value of tuning drums to pitches, that's on you. But most drummers with good tone know otherwise. So do most studio engineers.
Winston_Wolf
Platinum Member
Just knowing that there is a difference between a "carelessly tensioned hodgepodge of incompatible parts" and a good sounding set of drums demonstrates that there is tuning going on. Whether you reach "good sounding drums" through instinct or reason you've still been tuning drums, no matter what you call it. I think a lot of drummers develop an ear that is based more on instinct than reason, and because of that it become easy to dismiss what is happening because the terminology isn't comfortable.
But drums make specific pitches, that's why we work so hard to tune out any dissonant frequencies when we're "clearing" a head. And that's why the relationship between top and bottom head is so important. Different pitches react differently and the interval between them can completely change the character of the drum's overall tone. What we hear is more complicated than striking a single key on a piano, and maybe that's why understanding all of it comes slower to many drummers. You can deny it, or you can ignore it, but tuning and pitch is absolutely happening.
But if you take the time to learn what is going on, and why it matters, it will only make you a better musician.
C.M. Jones
Diamond Member
I will blithefully concede, without the slightest hesitation, that every registerable sound on the planet, whether it be the cracking of a tree branch or the blasting of a canon, produces a wavelength to which some degree of "pitch," however vague and imperfect, can be appended. As a drum produces a registerable sound, it is no exception to this condition. And yes, tonal intervals can, and should, be established when tuning one's drum kit. (Regard my use of "tonal.") I do not randomly throw heads on my drums and hope for the best. I spend time with them. I want them to sound good (mostly a subjective quality no matter who's doing the tuning), and I strive to attain an overall musical relationship among their corresponding components. I have never, by a fellow musician, sound engineer, or casual listener, been accused of carelessly preparing my kit. My goal has always been to show up with professional preparedness, and I hope I've achieved that aim in a reputable manner.
My overarching idea is that a drum's tonal and (if we must) pitch-oriented relationship to melodic instruments does not exist in the same proportion, or in the same form, as the relationship that one melodic instrument shares with another. Can you find through meticulous measurement a note that perhaps, however loosely, mimics C on a drum? I don't see why not. Is doing so as critical to a drummer's purpose as it is to a guitarist's? That would be a highly dubious proposition, maybe even, and I borrow a term from a previous poster, an absurd one.
There are many ways to approach the tuning of a drum, all of which have merits and shortcomings. A drum generally has a sweet spot for sound, and each drum is different in that regard. The sweet spot is rarely within a miniscule range. More often than not, it grants the drummer wiggle room. Exceed that sweet spot, or drop too far beneath it, and you do so at your own peril. But stay within its generous range, and you will be rewarded with an eclectic and well-appointed feast of potential. I explore that potential, and settle on a camp ground, without a compass to guide my path. From day to day, session to session, show to show, I needn't camp in precisely the same spot. I just need to remain within a safe range of compatible sounds, sounds that a given drum is primed to produce. I'm not a string player looking for a perfect C. And if I wanted a perfect C, I wouldn't search for one on a drum.
Professional drummers proceeded in this fashion for decades with admirable results. Some drummers, as Jimmy Paige noted in an interview, really didn't devote attention to tuning at all. I'd say that's a pretty bad approach, but it happened. I'm not arguing that something should continue to be done merely because it's an established mode of action. That would be infantile. But when something still works, I see no reason to abandon it.
My overarching idea is that a drum's tonal and (if we must) pitch-oriented relationship to melodic instruments does not exist in the same proportion, or in the same form, as the relationship that one melodic instrument shares with another. Can you find through meticulous measurement a note that perhaps, however loosely, mimics C on a drum? I don't see why not. Is doing so as critical to a drummer's purpose as it is to a guitarist's? That would be a highly dubious proposition, maybe even, and I borrow a term from a previous poster, an absurd one.
There are many ways to approach the tuning of a drum, all of which have merits and shortcomings. A drum generally has a sweet spot for sound, and each drum is different in that regard. The sweet spot is rarely within a miniscule range. More often than not, it grants the drummer wiggle room. Exceed that sweet spot, or drop too far beneath it, and you do so at your own peril. But stay within its generous range, and you will be rewarded with an eclectic and well-appointed feast of potential. I explore that potential, and settle on a camp ground, without a compass to guide my path. From day to day, session to session, show to show, I needn't camp in precisely the same spot. I just need to remain within a safe range of compatible sounds, sounds that a given drum is primed to produce. I'm not a string player looking for a perfect C. And if I wanted a perfect C, I wouldn't search for one on a drum.
Professional drummers proceeded in this fashion for decades with admirable results. Some drummers, as Jimmy Paige noted in an interview, really didn't devote attention to tuning at all. I'd say that's a pretty bad approach, but it happened. I'm not arguing that something should continue to be done merely because it's an established mode of action. That would be infantile. But when something still works, I see no reason to abandon it.
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Frank
Gold Member
I have been playing since I was 9. Pushing 50 years worth now. I always thought I had decent drum tone. But when I finally prodded myself to step up, and I started tuning to pitches with the tune bot, my tone took a quantum leap up. Everyone, including my non musician wife, is constantly remarking about how great my kit sounds. Whether I'm playing a fairly good kit, or a super cheap one. Good heads and pitch based tuning yield big results.
It's the Consistency I love. In the past, on any given day, I would like or not like what the kit sounded like. Now every session on the kit leads to me thinking: man, those sound gooood. Session to session, I am playing with the same, clean, musical tone. When I play the bass, I tune with precision with a tuner, and I'm not ashamed to do the same with a drum shell and a tune bot.
Stroman
Diamond Member
I have reread most of this thread, and debates aside, here is my one big takeaway -
The overwhelming majority of people who actually own a TuneBot find it useful, and a great many have said their drums sound better than ever.
I don't recall reading one response that said, yeah, I've got one but it just doesn't work, or yeah, I've got one but I can still tune way better than it can. There was a post that said the Resotune was more precise, but I think even that person found the TuneBot useful. (sorry if I mis-remember that post)
That would be enough to sway me if I were in the market right now. It seems like a product that does what it's supposed to.
The overwhelming majority of people who actually own a TuneBot find it useful, and a great many have said their drums sound better than ever.
I don't recall reading one response that said, yeah, I've got one but it just doesn't work, or yeah, I've got one but I can still tune way better than it can. There was a post that said the Resotune was more precise, but I think even that person found the TuneBot useful. (sorry if I mis-remember that post)
That would be enough to sway me if I were in the market right now. It seems like a product that does what it's supposed to.
I noticed it a little with lower (bass) frequencies on my iPhone. I think the mic in the phone plays a role on the accuracy. Maybe some phones have crappier mics than others? Just a thought.
But, the TuneBot is not an automated device. It simply reads frequencies the same as any other electronic test instrument like guitar tuners or oscilloscopes, etc. Or, even our ears.
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Winston_Wolf
Platinum Member
AzHeat
Platinum Member
They usually do. It always comes down to the same argument. Those who love tuning tools and have great results, and those who swear you're an inept drummer if you can't learn to tune by ear. I've heard both tunings personally and under mics and wow can the self tuned ones sound like ****. Same goes with using a metronome. There are those who can play to them and those can't keep time, but keep arguing against their use. That goes for drummers, guitarists and singers alike.
Alain Rieder
Silver Member
Nobody said this...
dboomer
Senior Member
Exactly. Drums can absolutely be tuned to a pitch. The definition of the pitch would be the fundamental, the loudest frequency of the number of frequencies when you strike it. The confusion comes because the overtone series is not harmonic (even multiples of the fundamental) but instead in inharmonic. Many instruments have inharmonic overtones including guitars when picked and violins when played pizzicato. However those inharmonic tones aren’t quite as strong as a two headed drum.
The levels of the inharmonic overtones of a drum are related to how closed to “cleared” a drum head is and the relationship of the top head tuning to the bottom head tuning.
Using a tuning meter simply tells you where you are and not where you need to be.
AzHeat
Platinum Member
If I use a drum dial and it says 80 and I’ve determined I like the tone of my drum best at 85, would it not be telling me where I need to be? If similarly, I want to tune my head to 200 Hz and Tune Bot tells me I’m at 188, is in not telling me I need to tighten the head a bit more to get to 200? I guess I’m not following the argument!