Can Everlong be played relaxed?

Mastiff

Mastiff

Senior Member
I'm talking about the HH at 158 or whatever. I keep practicing this off and on and I wonder if guys just kind of power through? My goal is to be chill and relaxed about it, not like "thank god we're in the chorus so I can get a break". I can play snare singles that fast relaxed, but the angle to the hat with left hand is such that I mostly end up wristing those ones out.

Tom Sawyer is the other one I struggle with, but in a different way...
 
Not only can it be, but it should be played relaxed (relaxed muscles). Dynamics will help. By creating a pulse for your wrists to focus on rather than on every 16th note.
Look at this drummer's right hand in particular; notice he's essentially doing the same motion he would use for quarter notes.

 
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Mastiff said:
I'm talking about the HH at 158 or whatever. I keep practicing this off and on and I wonder if guys just kind of power through? My goal is to be chill and relaxed about it, not like "thank god we're in the chorus so I can get a break".
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Yes, of course it can (and should) be played very relaxed.

I did a video (with RODS, sorry, because I can´t play loud at this time of the day), with two of the patterns of the song.

I don´t think this tune is too fast, the tempo is like many conventional disco songs played with 16ths on HH and back beat.

But be carefull, I think, playing like the guy on the previous video, and like I´ve seen the original player of it, you sooner or later will hurt yourself really bad (tendinitis, etc.), but that is because of the volume, the stress on those videos, on your ligaments and joints, looks to me similar to a construction worker demolishing a building with a pickaxe.
 
Alex Sanguinetti said:
But be carefull, I think, playing like the guy on the previous video, and like I´ve seen the original player of it, you sooner or later will hurt yourself really bad (tendinitis, etc.), but that is because of the volume, the stress on those videos, on your ligaments and joints, looks to me similar to a construction worker demolishing a building with a pickaxe.
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while I get what you are saying, I have been playing the way those guys play now for 48 years, and have no issue with tendonitis or joint pain. Playing like that without the development and definition of using rebound, flow, and muscle groups correctly will definitely lead to issues, but if you train correctly, it is not that hard to play like that and be ok. In my case, the training to play that aggressive came from marching band/drum corps work/study of how to get speed and volume properly.

I also play with lighter touch when needed, so I am not just a one trick pony...AND, the training I did to play aggressively has also really helped me in my touch for softer, or lighter techniques as well. It has definitely allowed me to know how to manipulate muscle groups to get the effects I need
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
I have been playing the way those guys play now for 48 years, and have no issue with tendonitis or joint pain.
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Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
I am not a doctor, but used to also experience shoulder pain myself because I gripped too hard, did not use rebound properly, and moved more from my bicep first, rather than my wrist first As I relearned technique, the pain - from drumming - went away. I alo think some of the pain was a result of not sitting at the right height on my throne. I raised the throne years ago, and that also helped. I can now play a 3-4 hour show with no shoulder pain from playing.

I also have completely destroyed my shoulders from 30+ years of playing ice hockey, so I am constantly dealing with those issues as well, and the proper grip technique helps me get over that road block as well....
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:)
 
Alex Sanguinetti said:
:)
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yeah...that post about the shoulder pain was when I realized how too tense of a grip could affect my playing in the long run, and how I reassessed it. For about 15 years now, I have played that powerfull from my wrists (I mean, there is residual arm motion from having to get around the kit). That has helped prevent tendonitis and carpal tunel. The pain back then was more muscular as well, mostly from keeping my shoulders "hunched up" while playing.
 
Mastiff said:
I'm talking about the HH at 158 or whatever. I keep practicing this off and on and I wonder if guys just kind of power through? My goal is to be chill and relaxed about it, not like "thank god we're in the chorus so I can get a break". I can play snare singles that fast relaxed, but the angle to the hat with left hand is such that I mostly end up wristing those ones out.

Tom Sawyer is the other one I struggle with, but in a different way...
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I hear you. After about 30 seconds I start to tighten up. I have a very hard time relaxing with stuff like that. But I have to learn to relax because it’s even harder when you don’t.
 
I some folks may be conflating "playing relaxed" and "playing with a relaxed feel". IMO Two very different things. I think when we start stiffening up - it starts feeling forced - it can heaven start feeling leaden. Which can start to be a drag on the ability to keep the tempo up - which to me, is when we can start losing all sense of energy.

The only way I see making something like this sound as it should - is to sound totally in control, sounds as though "of course, we could play this faster", to never sound like I'l struggling to keep up.... and when muscles start tightening, that's exactly how I start sounding.

To the OP - the only way I see to get there is just keep working acquiring more chops and endurance. Keep working towards the struggles you run into happens at tempos faster than 158. Headroom is everything.
 
caddywumpus said:
I can be played with a relaxed feel, for sure, but it doesn’t emote the same without the fevered drive. I have to remind myself to “stiffen up” a bit when I play it, so it comes across right.
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I think he means relaxed as in not tensing up. You don't need to tense up to play energetically. Perfect example, some of those gospel chops guys play with relentless drive and velocity (upper dynamic range) but play remarkably relaxed. By "relaxed" I'm usually referring to the muscles, not the feel.
 
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I found a good exercise is to take away the left hand and just play the right hand by itself (switching from hats to the snare backbeat). The fills in the chorus are maybe just as hard for me, it is a tough song, so it’s helpful to practice the part at slower tempos to internalize the motions and decide on your fills instead of improvising them and risking errors.

I think you make a great point about the hats, they just don’t offer the rebound of a drum and it does force a mortal drummer to muscle it/wrist it out.

I saw a live clip of Taylor Hawkins playing it once and freaked me out how much stick height he was getting off the hats.
 
Thanks for posting this. Ended up being a great exercise to help correct the fact that I've neglected my right hand lead two-handed 16ths (I'm a lefty). I've set a goal to get it up to 125% speed by the end of the month. Sitting at 115% presently.

Right now, my bottleneck is right hand mobility. I'm keeping the right hand mostly german-ish on the hats and flicking over to French for the backbeats and crashes. At a slower speed, this can feel like the right hand movement is "free," which is the idea, but after a certain tempo, I'm lacking the necessary finesse.

If you're having trouble with the left, you probably just need to slow it down a bit until the left hand adapts. At whatever that tempo is, you might also be able to tweak your right hand economy of motion and kill two birds with one stone. Your left is by far more static than your right in this song, so everything being equal, it does have the easier job and you'll get it working with time.
 
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dcrigger said:
I some folks may be conflating "playing relaxed" and "playing with a relaxed feel". IMO Two very different things. I think when we start stiffening up - it starts feeling forced - it can heaven start feeling leaden. Which can start to be a drag on the ability to keep the tempo up - which to me, is when we can start losing all sense of energy.

The only way I see making something like this sound as it should - is to sound totally in control, sounds as though "of course, we could play this faster", to never sound like I'l struggling to keep up.... and when muscles start tightening, that's exactly how I start sounding.
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I almost entirely agree with that. You can definitely play relaxed without sounding relaxed, and you can change up the way you play and the techniques you use a bit. However, my experience is also that it becomes quite hard to make something sound "raw" when you have too much headroom. If that raw feel is what you're going for, 5-10% headroom seems like a good sweet spot.
 
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Push pull stroke said:
Look up Ramon Montagner on Instagram or Facebook.
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Push pull isn't really appropriate here, especially based on the likely experience level of the OP and the difficulty with getting the sort of stick heights out of it that this song is asking for. I have never seen Montagner use push pull in a way that would mesh well with this song.
 
Jeff Graw said:
Push pull isn't really appropriate here, especially based on the likely experience level of the OP and the difficulty with getting the sort of stick heights out of it that this song is asking for. I have never seen Montagner use push pull in a way that would mesh well with this song.
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That’s what mics are for.
 
Remember the scene from Whiplash when the abusive psychopathic conductor kept telling the drummers to play faster and faster with both fighting to play faster and tensing up that slowed them down. Seems like relaxing into it is a must- and like the Yellow book let your fingers do the walking -or wrist and forearms lol.
 
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