The Ruff

Just out of curiosity, what is the question that still lacks an answer, or is still open for debate? I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I literally don't know.

The thread started because somebody asked what a "ruff" is. Between the original NARD list of 13 rudiments, and the various books that have been cited by Todd and others, it seems that the "what is a ruff" question was answered many posts ago.

Unless I somehow inferred the wrong conclusion from this thread so far, it seems that "ruff" is another word for "drag." It can be played "open" or "closed."

It also seems that a tiny minority of teachers and books over the years have used the term "3 stroke ruff" to refer to 3 single strokes, with an accent on the 3rd one...sorta like a truncated version of the 4 stroke ruff.

Is this a pretty good summary of the main takeaways?
 
don't end with a question..please 😁

I was told a Conductor does not care one hoot how the percussion section performs a figure
it's the result...that matters
 
jda said:
I was told a Conductor does not care one hoot how the percussion section performs a figure
it's the result...that matters
Click to expand...
I had the good fortune of taking a couple lessons with Arnie Lang, who had been a percussionist for the New York Philharmonic. I showed him some figures in a reading book that I had, and I asked him what the "correct sticking" was.

His answer kinda shocked me. He told me he didn't know what the "correct sticking" was, but that he personally would play the figures entirely with one hand! I almost couldn't believe it. He said that using one hand gives the most consistent sound, so that's what he would generally do whenever it was technically feasible.

For me, this highlights the difference that can exist between the rules that are taught and the real world practices of professionals.
 
MattRitter said:
Just out of curiosity, what is the question that still lacks an answer, or is still open for debate? I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I literally don't know.

The thread started because somebody asked what a "ruff" is. Between the original NARD list of 13 rudiments, and the various books that have been cited by Todd and others, it seems that the "what is a ruff" question was answered many posts ago.

Unless I somehow inferred the wrong conclusion from this thread so far, it seems that "ruff" is another word for "drag." It can be played "open" or "closed."

It also seems that a tiny minority of teachers and books over the years have used the term "3 stroke ruff" to refer to 3 single strokes, with an accent on the 3rd one...sorta like a truncated version of the 4 stroke ruff.

Is this a pretty good summary of the main takeaways?
Click to expand...

There's always endless debate about this one thing, I don't know why. Including what to call them, and everything else. They're played differently by different players, and different communities, and for different purposes. People should just know who says what, and why, and if that's their only input on the topic, they can make up their own minds what to do with them.

This last exchange is some kind of strange originalist argument that the one correct way to play them is the one way(???) they were played in Europe 200 years ago-- without actually doing any research into it, and just assigning authority to any of the billion currently living Europeans able to comment on it.
 
toddbishop said:
There's always endless debate about this one thing, I don't know why. Including what to call them, and everything else. They're played differently by different players, and different communities, and for different purposes. People should just know who says what, and why, and if that's their only input on the topic, they can make up their own minds what to do with them.

This last exchange is some kind of strange originalist argument that the one correct way to play them is the one way(???) they were played in Europe 200 years ago-- without actually doing any research into it, and just assigning authority to any of the billion currently living Europeans able to comment on it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that input. It sounds like the situation is worse than I realized! haha

I do recall that there was one famous drummer (who will remain nameless) who had a near-obsessive passion about this topic. He apparently felt that it was his personal calling to set the drumming world straight about it.

I can see being passionate about certain topics. I've certainly had my own set of peculiar drum passions over the years. But this ruff/drag thing seems to be a pretty straightforward case of 2 different words referring to the same thing. I'm sorry that "authorities" like the PAS have ended up adding to the confusion by doing name changes, etc. Still...it seems clear to me that this is basically what we're talking about—a name change.

When I was in the college jazz band, one of the instructors referred to the hi-hat as the "sock cymbal." I found it sort of amusing and almost endearing. I certainly didn't let it confuse me. In those days, I was already confused about enough stuff already! haha
 
toddbishop said:
There's always endless debate about this one thing, I don't know why. Including what to call them, and everything else. They're played differently by different players, and different communities, and for different purposes. People should just know who says what, and why, and if that's their only input on the topic, they can make up their own minds what to do with them.

This last exchange is some kind of strange originalist argument that the one correct way to play them is the one way(???) they were played in Europe 200 years ago-- without actually doing any research into it, and just assigning authority to any of the billion currently living Europeans able to comment on it.
Click to expand...

I mean, we already asked one, and he responded….It’s on you to find a counterexample, I feel like
 
toddbishop said:
No, it's up to you to explain why your highly strange birthright theory of rudimental correctness has any validity.

And Alain, a European, already gave a different answer right here. How is that possible?
Click to expand...

Because the orchestral world is tiny, especially the European one. Conductors travel all over the world constantly, doing guest conducting gigs. also, Performance practice is often not what’s written on the page, especially in percussion. My hypothesis is that there is an accepted practice that is pan-European, because of how small the orchestral world is, and how much guest conducting goes on.

In addition, the only European rudimental tradition that uses buzz strokes is the Scottish one. Scottish composers aren’t known for doing a lot of snare drum writing for orchestra, and there aren’t that many influential Scottish composers anyway, compared to the Russians, British, and French, who have done nearly all the snare drum writing for orchestra.

It’s a simple solution—-just email 10 or so head percussion teachers in Europe, and see what they say. I see no major flaw in that plan, at least as a good starting point to getting a final answer
 
  • Haha
Reactions: DHD
Push pull stroke said:
Because the orchestral world is tiny, especially the European one. Conductors travel all over the world constantly, doing guest conducting gigs. also, Performance practice is often not what’s written on the page, especially in percussion. My hypothesis is that there is an accepted practice that is pan-European, because of how small the orchestral world is, and how much guest conducting goes on.
Click to expand...

Yes, and they come to the USA, and American musicians come to Europe, and are aware of how things are done by various Europeans.

Push pull stroke said:
It’s a simple solution—-just email 10 or so head percussion teachers in Europe, and see what they say. I see no major flaw in that plan, at least as a good starting point to getting a final answer
Click to expand...

You should do that. Supporting your theory is your job.

But I don't know what you mean by final answer, there is only what is done by communities of professionals. Practices and tastes in sound evolve. If it mattered what was "originally" done, everybody would be using rawhide hammers on pianos, and crap-sounding Haydn-era timpani. Tuning to A415 or whatever.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top