Beginner Drummer: Kick technique + gear upgrade?

organworthyplayer337

organworthyplayer337

Active Member
Hi, I’ve only been playing for about 2 1/2 months and I can’t help but feel my kick technique should be better by now. I cannot find a way to make my doubles consistent. Some sessions, I can find a good balance point where I have control of the beater rebound and perform doubles but other times it’s like my foot is chasing the footboard to get that second hit. I’ve tried adjusting the spring tension but it seems like there isn’t a consistent sweet spot.

I have two main questions:

Generally, should I be further along in the ability to control the rebound by now?

Also, would it be unwise to upgrade the pedal this early on/should I try to get my technique better on the cheap pedal before upgrading?

I’m not planning on giving up and I’m a upgrade now instead of later kind of gal, but I want to hear from experienced players

Thanks!
 
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organworthyplayer337 said:
I’m not planning on giving up and I’m a upgrade now instead of later kind of gal, but I want to hear from experienced players
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By all means, upgrade. You will run into the same issues at first though as you get used to the new pedal.

I'm of the opinion that a pedal upgrade is good and shouldn't wait until you significantly improve. A good pedal will last forever. Improvement is a lifelong journey, take a good pedal with you.

Once you get used to the better pedal, your foot will improve faster than on a crappy pedal. It's hammer vs nail gun.

Every pedal has a sweet spot. With enough time you will find it. Here's a hint, it's more in the middle than at the top.
 
No and no on the technique time and the pedal upgrade. Just too soon to expect great control of the rebound.
Been a long time since I learned to rock and roll, to paraphrase a bit, but I would get a metronome for consistent control of your singles. Then the same for doubles. Once you get comfortable add a left hand snare stroke for the “one” and “three” while maintaining 4 on the floor. After this do the same snare hits but single kicks on 2 and 4. Then try adding double on the kick instead of singles. Finally, listen to some simple grooves to hear variations on these patterns.
Just my 2 cents. Teachers undoubtedly will have more to add.
 
Watch the Collin Bailey kick videos here on DW- some great exercises. Get on floor and use your finger to play fast patterns with your finger- you’ll find sweet spot - which usually is near middle. You’ll find you can use your big toe to do same thing - though I don’t recommend it. Collin plays heel down mostly so with metatarsal pads on spot, I play heel up with my toes and metatarsal pads on sweet spot.
 
If your ppedal is in working order, then no.

2 1/2 months isn't much on a new instrument even if you were an experienced musician with good understanding of practice.

A good teacher will help you with things, but they'd probably focus on music, basic hand technique, posture, reading etc.. Fast doubles with the feet are quite far down on the list.

Might be wrong, but since you aren't talking or asking about specific techniques I'm suspecting you don't know much about them. There are many ways to use the feet. Basic heel down and whole leg should do the trick. 2 1/2 months isn't nearly enough time to condtion your feet to be ready for other stuff. I wouldnæt even worry about it. Get your hands going and work on learning fundamental grooves and play music.
 
Odd-Arne Oseberg said:
If your ppedal is in working order, then no.

2 1/2 months isn't much on a new instrument even if you were an experienced musician with good understanding of practice.

A good teacher will help you with things, but they'd probably focus on music, basic hand technique, posture, reading etc.. Fast doubles with the feet are quite far down on the list.

Might be wrong, but since you aren't talking or asking about specific techniques I'm suspecting you don't know much about them. There are many ways to use the feet. Basic heel down and whole leg should do the trick. 2 1/2 months isn't nearly enough time to condtion your feet to be ready for other stuff. I wouldnæt even worry about it. Get your hands going and work on learning fundamental grooves and play music.
Click to expand...
Hi,

I’ve just been very busy. That’s why I haven’t replied to anything yet. I am aware of the different techniques. I found that heel-up and slide work best for me. I was just asking to see if I should be further along in my ability for control rebound, and by reading the responses; I shouldn’t be concerned about my terrible control yet :)
 
mrfingers said:
No and no on the technique time and the pedal upgrade. Just too soon to expect great control of the rebound.
Been a long time since I learned to rock and roll, to paraphrase a bit, but I would get a metronome for consistent control of your singles. Then the same for doubles. Once you get comfortable add a left hand snare stroke for the “one” and “three” while maintaining 4 on the floor. After this do the same snare hits but single kicks on 2 and 4. Then try adding double on the kick instead of singles. Finally, listen to some simple grooves to hear variations on these patterns.
Just my 2 cents. Teachers undoubtedly will have more to add.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the exercise recommendation! I've been entertaining the idea of picking up some in-person lessons.
 
MrInsanePolack said:
By all means, upgrade. You will run into the same issues at first though as you get used to the new pedal.

I'm of the opinion that a pedal upgrade is good and shouldn't wait until you significantly improve. A good pedal will last forever. Improvement is a lifelong journey, take a good pedal with you.

Once you get used to the better pedal, your foot will improve faster than on a crappy pedal. It's hammer vs nail gun.

Every pedal has a sweet spot. With enough time you will find it. Here's a hint, it's more in the middle than at the top.
Click to expand...
looks like we're in the minority haha
 
organworthyplayer337 said:
looks like we're in the minority haha
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't get it. If it was cymbals, the answer would be get better ones so you can work on dynamic and touch. Heads, get better ones and work on tuning. Just learning, get a teacher to improve technique. Yet, foot technique is first, then upgrade. Totally bass-akwards from everything else.
 
MrInsanePolack said:
Yeah I don't get it. If it was cymbals, the answer would be get better ones so you can work on dynamic and touch. Heads, get better ones and work on tuning. Just learning, get a teacher to improve technique. Yet, foot technique is first, then upgrade. Totally bass-akwards from everything else.
Click to expand...
I don't believe any of that to be true

if someone tells you to change gear when you are having difficulty in any area , run ... run as fast as you can ... because they haven't a clue of what they speak

a carpenter who blames tools ... not something I can tolerate
 
What's the origin of "kick drum" I don't remember that term when I was young? To Tony's point my Pearl RT POD "bass" drum has this flimsy pedal that is made to attach to bass-it's pretty pathetic looking but honestly it's just as agile as my Tama Iron Cobra. I was shocked when I first got it-even replaced it with my Cobra but it worked better with pedal that came with it. My first pedal was a Ludwig Speed king worked just as great as any since. But I guess for the double pedal guys some technical advantage will help maintain that speed, duration, and that double bass click-y sound that's so popular now for that genre (how do they do that anyways?). Sorry I got off track reading the thread.
 
WhoIsTony? said:
I don't believe any of that to be true

if someone tells you to change gear when you are having difficulty in any area , run ... run as fast as you can ... because they haven't a clue of what they speak

a carpenter who blames tools ... not something I can tolerate
Click to expand...
I agree. My original post wasn't that I thought a new pedal would make me better, it was more along the lines of; would it hurt to upgrade now, while I am learning so that I won't need to in the future. I am well aware that gear doesn't make the player (I'm a professional bass player, so I know that all too well), and I know that a new pedal + no practice is the same as old pedal + no practice. I am not a carpenter that blames their tools! I know I suck! haha
 
GetAgrippa said:
What's the origin of "kick drum" I don't remember that term when I was young? To Tony's point my Pearl RT POD "bass" drum has this flimsy pedal that is made to attach to bass-it's pretty pathetic looking but honestly it's just as agile as my Tama Iron Cobra. I was shocked when I first got it-even replaced it with my Cobra but it worked better with pedal that came with it. My first pedal was a Ludwig Speed king worked just as great as any since. But I guess for the double pedal guys some technical advantage will help maintain that speed, duration, and that double bass click-y sound that's so popular now for that genre (how do they do that anyways?). Sorry I got off track reading the thread.
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No worries, I appreciate everybody's input.

I've been in multiple live music settings for several years and every engineer/band member/drummer has referred to it as the kick drum or just "the kick". I'm new here so I'm still adjusting to the culture, I'll learn eventually lol
 
organworthyplayer337 said:
Generally, should I be further along in the ability to control the rebound by now?

Also, would it be unwise to upgrade the pedal this early on/should I try to get my technique better on the cheap pedal before upgrading?
Click to expand...

Doubles, including swung doubles, take a long while to get consistent. It was honestly over a year for me.

Regarding the pedal. So long as your current pedal has no major defect or failing, you should be fine. Even inexpensive pedals like the Yamaha 7200 series are just as functional as the top-tier DW's and Tama's.
 
KamaK said:
Doubles, including swung doubles, take a long while to get consistent. It was honestly over a year for me.

Regarding the pedal. So long as your current pedal has no major defect or failing, you should be fine. Even inexpensive pedals like the Yamaha 7200 series are just as functional as the top-tier DW's and Tama's.
Click to expand...
Ok, good to know. Thanks for chiming in.

So is there a rule of thumb for how long one should wait before thinking about upgrading?
 
organworthyplayer337 said:
Hi,

I’ve just been very busy. That’s why I haven’t replied to anything yet. I am aware of the different techniques. I found that heel-up and slide work best for me. I was just asking to see if I should be further along in my ability for control rebound, and by reading the responses; I shouldn’t be concerned about my terrible control yet :)
Click to expand...

Concerned about control sure, but that just means not focusing too much on things that aren't realistic at the moment. That can mean different things for different people though, especially if they have a lot of time to practice. As with many other things, if be run before we can walk we usually have how to back and fix things. That will always be the case, but it's good to minimize it and have a holistic approach.

We often want to just sit down and play and go for it, but smart practice is often something different.

As with any endevour smart quality practice beats quantity any time. It's also good to soend some time time away frome the kit evauating your practice session and planning the next one.

A little extra help with foot control doesn't have to take much. A minute of 16th notes first heel down short rest and then repeat heel up is a good 2-3 min warm-up to get things going. It usually makes a difference pretty quickly. I'd start at 40-50 bpm. It's not as easy at it sounds. Clean even and perfectly timed, or there's no point.

There isn't one way to play doubles, but heel-toe, push-pull or whatever you wanna call it is one way to go about it. There's a bit of tip shank type of thing going on there, so it takes a while to get used to the coordination. There's all sorts of tastes, even among the big names. J.R. as far as I know is all heel down. Weckl is all heel up, but he has the tensions set so he's constantly floating. There isn't one way. Depends a bit on the volume you generally play, but that doesn't really have to be true either. I play barefoot and that's not the only reason one would choose to have a wider arsenal, but for me it helps as I play so many different things. Some bury the beater, some don't. There are discussions to be had about those choices, but as long as people can play what they want to comfortably and not hurt thmselves and getting the sound they want, that's all that matters.
 
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