Micing a non ported bass drum

My gigs don't require me being miced that much. About 8 months ago I went from being a strictly ported bass drum guy to a strictly un-ported bass drum guy. I got over the difference in feel within the first 2 weeks and I am loving the unported sound now, in a big way. I've only needed to mic the bass drum for about 3 gigs since I went unported, and there was a soundman for 2 of them. My question is, for the people who do it regularly, where do you place the bass drum microphone?

The results I got were these: When I mic dead center, a few inches away from the reso head, I get too much boom. When I mic right on the edge of the reso, it's not full enough but has more attack. So I settled on a spot halfway between the center and the edge. But I haven't had the opportunity to really evaluate it from a FOH POV. I was looking for others experiences as to how to get the ideal balance between boom and attack, as it relates to mic placement. Does anyone have any informed opinions of this? Dennis?

I played a gig as a sub recently with my Ludwigs which has no port on the kick. The sound guys were pretty mad. The bass player had a trick to find the 'sweet spot' on the reso head of a kick so you can mike it best. This is probably common knowledge to everybody but me, but what he did is he took a dollar bill and as I played the kick, he moved it closely around the front head until it was a a place where it was sucked in by the head, instead of pushed out. Apparently that was the sweet spot to mike, but the sound guy never listened our light suggestions, he just got mad. You can do it with toms too, using your arm hair as the dollar. I have no clue how it sounded out front.

Mic'ing live presents additional difficulties above & beyond a studio situation. There's no golden rule, except to say that generally the quality of sound improves with a little distance between the mic & reso head, plus presenting the mic at an angle (circa 30 degrees) to the head can often yeild a more balanced sound. Personally, I cheat - mainly because I haven't got time to mess around. I need a "place it & play" solution. For smaller gigs, I tune up the reso head a bit higher than usual, & mic the batter head from underneath the floor tom. This adds rich low end where you need it, plus the attack for clarity. I typically do this when I'm not close mic'ing the kit - just overheads. It's not conventional, but it works, & it's reliable.

For larger gigs, I detune the reso a little, keep the batter head mic in place, then additionally mic the reso with a Yamaha Subkick. That way, I can balance attack & boom on two separate channels, & that makes it a breeze to dial in a great FOH sound. Again, not conventional, but like I care

Here's what I've been wondering about lately. All of my sound guys here at the Magic Kingdom are so stuck on having a mic on the inside of the bass drum. But - when we mic toms and snares, it's usually from the top - and we're all pretty happy with that sound.

So, wouldn't mic'ing a non-ported bass drum from the front be like miking a tom or a snare from the bottom of the drum? How attractive of a sound is that?

Andy alluded to this, but in my last YouTube video, I stuck my Shure SM57 on the batter side of my bass drum, and pointed it towards where the beater hit the head. The only other mics on the kit were on the snare, and the two overheads. You can hear the bass drum here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C84URQVoAfs&list=UUkDJzHGBQeXec9F0U_UNB5Q&index=1

I think it sounds great - it's not missing anything, and you get a great attack and alot of bottom end. In theory, it's an oversized tom tom. I think Andy does the two mic thing, one on the batter nad one on the front reso, but in a pinch, one will do as I've demonstrated here. What do you think about it?

I'd like to get an actual bass drum mic and try this out, but the fact that it worked with a Shure SM57 is really cool. It means it'll work with any mic.

Bo Eder said:

Here's what I've been wondering about lately. All of my sound guys here at the Magic Kingdom are so stuck on having a mic on the inside of the bass drum. But - when we mic toms and snares, it's usually from the top - and we're all pretty happy with that sound.

So, wouldn't mic'ing a non-ported bass drum from the front be like miking a tom or a snare from the bottom of the drum? How attractive of a sound is that?

Andy alluded to this, but in my last YouTube video, I stuck my Shure SM57 on the batter side of my bass drum, and pointed it towards where the beater hit the head. The only other mics on the kit were on the snare, and the two overheads. You can hear the bass drum here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C84URQVoAfs&list=UUkDJzHGBQeXec9F0U_UNB5Q&index=1

I think it sounds great - it's not missing anything, and you get a great attack and alot of bottom end. In theory, it's an oversized tom tom. I think Andy does the two mic thing, one on the batter nad one on the front reso, but in a pinch, one will do as I've demonstrated here. What do you think about it?

I'd like to get an actual bass drum mic and try this out, but the fact that it worked with a Shure SM57 is really cool. It means it'll work with any mic.

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and forever henceforth shall be termed "the Andy method" LOL!.

That recording sounded good Bo, but use a dedicated bass drum mic, & crank up the reso a bit, & you'll be surprised just how good it can be. of course, in a studio, there's no real advantage in using such "cheats"!

BTW, i use the single batter head mic more often than I use the two "mic" technique. Again, gig dependant. personally, I think a Subkick is a waste of time live unless you're driving at least 6K, preferably a combo of bandpass & reflex

The best place to mic the resonant head of the bass drum will depend on a number of different factors. This includes the size of the drum, the heads that are used, the tuning and the microphone or microphones that is used. Where I usually start is to tune the drum to the quality and pitch of the sound that I want. Most off the time I'll tune my batter for the "feel" and the resonant head for the pitch. I try very hard to mic my resonant heads at about three inches into the head area from the hoop's edge with the microphone looking across encompassing the total area of the head. I also like to have this microphone looking down more into the floor area to keep its "polar pattern" away from the rack toms and cymbals. This area will never be exactly the same, but an inch or two in any direction can make or break the sound. When I'm engineering a session, I'll ask a tech to slightly move the microphone as I listen to it in the control room. On location this precise placement isn't as critical.

Another thing that I'll do is to have someone lightly play the pedal and listen to the resonant head or I'll use a mallet and tap the resonant head until I hear something that I like. I don't use an internally equalized microphone with a proximity up the kazoo, but rather a fairly flat microphone with very little proximity effect. With this type of microphone, I can just about touch the head without any annoying bass boost that can snowball into indistinguishable mush when mixed with other sources.

All of this will come down to a lot of experimentation, but when it's more or less dialed in and you know where to start, the next time should go more smoothly and quickly, usually less than a minute or so. I rarely touch an EQ pot because using the correct microphone and placement trumps any "after the fact" fixes. If under normal circumstances someone needs more than a 3 or 4 db boost or cut, it's time to re-evaluate how and what's being used.





Good luck and have fun with it.

Dennis

For recording purposes, we've had the most success micing both batter and reso.

Live, it's not worth it for me to fight with the sound guys. I just bring a ported head. F**k it, I'd rather spend my time getting ready for the gig than dealing with a pissed-off sound guy.

There are a bunch of old TV videos I've seen on YT with the mic pointed at the bass drum from the back (batter). You can always hear the bass drum and rest of the drums just fine.
I did a recording with the mic on the batter side also, and it sounded great.

I don't understand why a sound guy would be "mad" because there is no hole. If someone is using a 20-24" bass drum with a 14 or 16" depth, there is no real reason that it needs a hole. They're just used to it.

...I did a self edit before I posted, and deleted my "no hole vs. sound guy" rant, and left it with the above statement

KarlCrafton said:

There are a bunch of old TV videos I've seen on YT with the mic pointed at the bass drum from the back (batter). You can always hear the bass drum and rest of the drums just fine.
I did a recording with the mic on the batter side also, and it sounded great.

I don't understand why a sound guy would be "mad" because there is no hole. If someone is using a 20-24" bass drum with a 14 or 16" depth, there is no real reason that it needs a hole. They're just used to it.

...I did a self edit before I posted, and deleted my "no hole vs. sound guy" rant, and left it with the above statement

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I try to re-educate my sound guys here at the magic kingdom, and many are just stuck with their opinions. They do deal with the situation rather than get angry, but I'm working on them. Egos tend to run rampant when you work in entertainment so alot of times I just try to keep everybody happy. But I'm always siding with the drummer who shows up with his instrument the way it is, meaning we won't alter it because it's convenient for us.

8Mile said:

For recording purposes, we've had the most success micing both batter and reso.

Live, it's not worth it for me to fight with the sound guys. I just bring a ported head. F**k it, I'd rather spend my time getting ready for the gig than dealing with a pissed-off sound guy.

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I totally agree. (20 character limit)

KarlCrafton said:

I don't understand why a sound guy would be "mad" because there is no hole. If someone is using a 20-24" bass drum with a 14 or 16" depth, there is no real reason that it needs a hole.

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Does that mean a smaller or more shallow bass drum would need to be ported? Is there an objective reason for it to ever be better to port? (not counting sound guys' preferences). It's not as though we port toms.

Anon La Ply said:

Does that mean a smaller or more shallow bass drum would need to be ported? Is there an objective reason for it to ever be better to port? (not counting sound guys' preferences). It's not as though we port toms.

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In short - no. I know what Karl is getting at. A larger bass drum has more internal volume to disperse pressure waves. It's both a sound & a playing feel thing, but it's completely personal to you & your playing style.

Put simply, if you're the kind of player who hits fairly hard, likes a shorter punch, & buries the beater all the time, then porting is for you. However, if you're playing style is more beater off, & a range of dynamics, + you like sustain in your bass drum, then unported is the way to go. Of course, that's a very simplistic view, & reality often lies somewhere between the two in terms of decisive elements. Equally, there are other considerations, such as genre, tuning preferences, playing context, etc. It's all good

Most places I play, there's no sound guy and we don't mic anything,

However one recent gig I did play that had a sound guy, that person actually loved the fact I didn't have a ported head. He mic'd the reso and placed a small towel against the reso head. Not even enough for me to notice.

Another recent gig I did, the sound guy had it out with me and all I did was look at him and tell him that $40.00 and a blade will get you a port hole on the spot. He walked away.

The simple fact is that most of the sound people you meet at gigs were shown one simple "generic" way of doing something. When this simplistic technique is challenged in any way, no port hole, they get retaliatory because it's taking them out of their comfort zone. They get paid very little to nothing and usually have no desire to learn something new. It's change for them and after being caught in a ditch type situation for a period of time, most people I meet are very reluctant to change what they know. In their defense, change for a sound man means that it might take more time to accomplish with questionable results and in the entertaining business it's not a good idea to disappoint the patrons or establishment. All in all it comes down to lack of experience.

I use to run into this problem frequently, but for some reason always got it ironed out with everyone smiling. Communication is always key.

Dennis

audiotech said:

The simple fact is that most of the sound people you meet at gigs were shown one simple "generic" way of doing something. When this simplistic technique is challenged in any way, no port hole, they get retaliatory because it's taking them out of their comfort zone. They get paid very little to nothing and usually have no desire to learn something new. It's change for them and after being caught in a ditch type situation for a period of time, most people I meet are very reluctant to change what they know. In their defense, change for a sound man means that it might take more time to accomplish with questionable results and in the entertaining business it's not a good idea to disappoint the patrons or establishment. All in all it comes down to lack of experience.

I use to run into this problem frequently, but for some reason always got it ironed out with everyone smiling. Communication is always key.

Dennis

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I've run into some real jackass soundmen in my years of gigging (mostly on guitar) and I really don't think it's worth it TO ME to even have the conversation. It's not like I'm afraid of confrontation or anything, but I'd rather be focused on the gig at hand and not dealing with a cocky ego-inflated soundman that thinks he's God's gift to bands. LOL

I would like to have it unported, though, because the tone is better IMO. I'm just not willing to deal with the crap that comes along with it.

PS - Plus, the cocky soundmen will and DO screw up your sound when you make them mad.

Having the larger bass drums (26) and different depths (16,18, 20) the 20 for sure benefits from the port.
The sound difference (port/no port) is nothing really, and it feels good with the port.

The 18 depth feels good with the port, and sounds good too, not really a difference in sound.

Depending on the band I used the 16 in, it was better with a port, but the feel and sound are enjoyable both ways.

The reason I said there's no real reason for the port in a shallow bass drum is the sound/time from the batter getting to the reso, and creating "the whole drum sound" is less for a mic to pick up.
With the deep shell there can be a lag, however slight, but I did notice it when it was pointed out to me (by a sound man), and I heard it on video (it was either the 18 or 20" depth).
On the gig, the bass player and I WERE on, but on the video, the sound wasn't exactly on. I put a port on that drum, and the issue was solved.

One thing I will say is, if a drummer is a light player on the bass drum and you can't really hear it, then it might be better to put a port in so the mic could go in a little and the drum sound could come through better.
However, if someone plays with authority, with an even stroke, then a hole isn't going to make much difference. The head is only 10mil thick, it's not a brick wall!

One sound guy at a decent size, fairly big venue I've played many times never puts the mic at or in the port hole.
He said it's easier to just put it at the head, and he's always gotten a fat, nice tone with a clear sound from any bass drum that's on a bill I've played, or have seen other bands play.
The last time I played there was a benefit, with 4 other drummers using my kit. I brought the 16" depth bass drum for that gig. Everyone also had a different way of playing the bass drum, but everyone had a good sound with the front head mic'd without a hole.

I actually don't mind the port, and I've had it at the 9:00 position, however, I am considering placing it at the bottom, so there's no chance a mic could be shoved inside by someone (usually, they don't even try because it's only 4" anyway)
With it at the bottom, the mic stand also wouldn't be run all the way across the front of the head. WHY do they ALWAYS do that??
I really don't like how it looks, and it's one of the reasons I bring my own little stand.
I'd rather let the other drummers on the bill use my mic (for ease of use, and set up time) than have a crappy stand run across my drum.

Any soundman who throws a fit because of the lack of a hole in a bass drum needs to go back to human interaction 101. I do live sound as a hobby and it is plenty easy to mic a bass drum with no port.

KarlCrafton said:

I don't understand why a sound guy would be "mad" because there is no hole. If someone is using a 20-24" bass drum with a 14 or 16" depth, there is no real reason that it needs a hole. They're just used to it.

...I did a self edit before I posted, and deleted my "no hole vs. sound guy" rant, and left it with the above statement

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Heh, yeah, it's ridiculous. As others have commented, I think it's just a comfort zone thing for them. They're used to getting a good sound out of ported bass drum heads because most people port them.

By the way, this is only my experience playing rock-type gigs. I've never ported my 18" bass drum, nor will I. But sound guys at jazz shows understand nobody ports a jazz bass drum and they know how to deal with it.

KarlCrafton said:

There are a bunch of old TV videos I've seen on YT with the mic pointed at the bass drum from the back (batter). You can always hear the bass drum and rest of the drums just fine.
I did a recording with the mic on the batter side also, and it sounded great.

I don't understand why a sound guy would be "mad" because there is no hole. If someone is using a 20-24" bass drum with a 14 or 16" depth, there is no real reason that it needs a hole. They're just used to it.

...I did a self edit before I posted, and deleted my "no hole vs. sound guy" rant, and left it with the above statement

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Agreed, I always mic from the batter side. Unless you have an old squeaky Speed King, I think this works great!

gf2564 said:

Agreed, I always mic from the batter side. Unless you have an old squeaky Speed King, I think this works great!

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Even then, these days there's no excuse for an old squeaky Speed King. That graphite lubricant you use on locks works wonders when you apply it to the heel pin on the Speed King, which is where the squeaking usually lives