Yamaha's Chinese Factory Quality

T

trieck

Junior Member
Hi,
I've been a Yamaha guy for over 25 years. I have owned their Recording Custom drums, The original Tour series drums and now I own a Birch Custom Absolute kit. The move to the Chinese factory for their high end drums gives me the willies a little bit. What they are producing with the Absolute Hybrid series in China looks impressive but I remain cautious about this. I have not heard the Chinese drums, so I am asking for others opinions on this move. Has the move to the Chinese factory brought down the price of their drums? It doesn't seem to have? Perhaps my fears are irrational and unsubstantiated. I want to know that the quality of the product has not suffered. Thanks.
 
trieck said:
... I have not heard the Chinese drums, so I am asking for others opinions on this move. Has the move to the Chinese factory brought down the price of their drums? It doesn't seem to have? Perhaps my fears are irrational and unsubstantiated. I want to know that the quality of the product has not suffered. Thanks.
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Keep in mind they are Yamaha drums made in China. They are not Chinese drums. That said, I wouldn't buy them because I keep as far away from anything made there as possible. I'm sure the quality Yamaha produces there is every bit as good as those they make in any other country save maybe their Japanese products.
 
My Yamaha background - I've had Recording Custom and Beech Custom kits in the past and currently have a Maple Custom AN with a Weckl snare and a Copper Nouveau snare. I am in love with my 9500 series strap drive pedal.

I too was surprised at the China move especially given Yamaha's proud Japanese heritage. I wouldn't worry about the quality of product they will get though. There is master quality work being done in China and there is crappy amateur work being done in China and everything in between just like anywhere else. Being a corporate giant, Yamaha will certainly demand a quality product before they put their brand on it. I sat in the front row at a Weckl clinic last fall where he setup 2 Live Custom kits. I could hear the drums live over the PA and they sounded incredible.

Now...boycotting things made in China is another matter that I don't actively participate in, but totally respect. Their human rights and pollution issues are pretty disturbing.
 
MileHighDrummer said:
.............because I keep as far away from anything made there as possible..........
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Off topic and my apologies for it. Just interested to know how you can manage that in this day and age? I'd argue it's damned near impossible. The vast majority of your lifes possesions have originated in China in some way, shape or form.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
Off topic and my apologies for it. Just interested to know how you can manage that in this day and age? I'd argue it's damned near impossible. The vast majority of your lifes possesions have originated in China in some way, shape or form.
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Where possible says it all. There's plenty of things made in the USA and Europe. If there's an alternative, I take it. There are many.
 
MileHighDrummer said:
Where possible says it all. There's plenty of things made in the USA and Europe. If there's an alternative, I take it. There are many.
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Sure. Made from products that themselves have been made or sourced from China, is my wider point. From the Chinese made components in your American made car, to the Chinese chemicals that go into making the plastics in your German made stereo or TV, to the Chinese surfactants that go into making your hand soap, to the Chinese laqcuer on your American Ludwigs.

In this day and age, it's largely unavoidable.....even on products thare are supposedly "made" in the USA...or Eurpoe....or Oz.....or anywhere else for that matter. So much raw product is sourced from China that the stance is next to impossible to adhere to.
 
I've got a lot of Yamaha stuff - both newer, MIC, and older MIJ.

I had some concerns about the made in china FP9500d pedal when I got it about a year and a half ago, expressed here: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1111265&postcount=21
but it seems to be holding up just fine.

No complaints about my made in china Yamaha drums, the quality is right up there.
But I'm old enough to remember when 'made in japan' carried the same kind of stigma that china currently holds.
 
I find it funny people get alarmed Yamaha is making things in China, yet all the other companies that make drums in China get a free pass from such scrutiny. When the reality is Yamaha was pretty much the last hold out to move to China.

But more than that, everything that people are saying about China now is what people said about "Made in Japan" in the 1970's.

I suspect in 20 years, people will freak over drums being made in what-ever country and questioning why anyone would buy a drum set not made in China.
 
I'm in the clothing industry, and surprisingly we seem to be one of the few markets that is not largely made in China. Look at the tags on all of your tee shirts and you will find "Made in Haiti, El Salvador, Viet Nam, Nicaragua, Mexico, India, Egypt, and Dominican Republic." There exists a large market of Made in the US clothing, but it costs twice as much and is generally of poor quality.
 
What ever happened to Made In America? I know there are some great drums still made in the US but the prices they are asking is out of reach for a lot of players.
 
2bsticks said:
What ever happened to Made In America? I know there are some great drums still made in the US but the prices they are asking is out of reach for a lot of players.
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I think you might just have answered your own question there.
 
You can't make a kit in America from American materials using American labor for anything close to import prices. You'll be lucky to make a 5-piece kit yourself for less than $2000 using all-American parts, if you factor in your own labor.

That's the global economy for you. ;-)
 
I remember when Swiss Made was the watch to own but even now that term only means that a certain percentage of the parts and assembly must be Swiss
 
STXBob said:
......using all-American parts........
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That was pretty much the crux of my earlier point. I'm not sure it can be done anymore. What percentage of your US made drums are actually "made" in the US anyway?

I can't think of an American drum maker who manufactures their own lugs/shell hardware et al. As far as I've read here on the forum, the vast majority of those are sourced from Asia......including by the flagship companies like DW, Ludwig, Gretsch etc. Add that to all the glues, lacquers, plastic wraps etc....the raw ingredients of which are more than likely to come from China as well......and it tends to negate the point somewhat. To say, "I won't buy from China" becomes moot because in reality you are, whether you're aware of it or not. And if you own a TV or cell phone, forget about it. Game over.....regardless of the brand printed on the front.

Yes mate, globalisation at it's finest. The horse bolted long ago.
 
The age of fossil fuel enabled global free market trade will be drawing to an end.

Probably not in our lifetimes though.
 
That's not gonna stop global trade, nuclear submarines already available.

But I do think we are close to the end of the wave that we've been surfing on so nicely since after WW2. It's time to thank those friendly people in Asia that have been willing to work insane hours in terrible conditions for a fraction of the monetary pretentions of Western workers, and provide us with incredible buying power. They're getting richer and richer fast while we're running out of clever ideas on how to continue making much more than they do.

Get a cheap Chinese Yamaha while you still can, they're great quality.
 
With apologies for the massive thread drift...

Ever since Malthus, and possibly even before, we've been Chicken Littling about how things can't go on ever upwards, and yet things have done just that.

Why? Because humans have proved very adept at overcoming limitations. Each limitation overcome reveals the next limitation to overcome.

It would take a mix of pessimism and hubris to predict that the limitations we now face are the bridge too far.
 
picodon said:
Get a cheap Chinese Yamaha while you still can, they're great quality.
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In order to finally get myself back on topic in this thread. Ultimately, I agree. The Chinese in their own right have been at this drum making caper for a few years now. Numerous leading brands trust them enough to churn out their intermediate kits en masse. And given the rate that they fly off the shelves and are played without falling to pieces, I'd suggest they're doing something right.

Yamaha are now just another in a long list to join the fold. As alluded to in several posts earlier, I'd bet my right arm there are still people at Yamaha who well remember when the term "Jap crap" was levelled at anything they produced. There was a time when the exact same concerns surrounded powerhouses like Yamaha, Pearl and Tama. It really wasn't all that long ago in the scheme of things. It's safe to say that the Chinese intermediate kits of today are of far superior quality to the MIJ stencil kits of yesteryear.
 
The "made in" tag is largely meaningless these days. The vast majority of the higher cost elements are made in the lowest cost environments. There's absolutely no point in making shell hardware in your own country unless you're making something technologically challenging. Pot metal & other casted parts plus simple machined forms are not only much cheaper to make in Asia, they're typically more consistently made too.

Yamaha have effectively been "made in" China for years, it's just that they're now assembled there too. Not the big leap it's made out to be. You're buying a commodity product, expect it to be made as a commodity product.

I'm sure Yamaha stuff will be just fine. I'm a fan of their hardware, & don't expect to see any significant change there.
 
RedeyeSPR said:
I'm in the clothing industry, and surprisingly we seem to be one of the few markets that is not largely made in China. Look at the tags on all of your tee shirts and you will find "Made in Haiti, El Salvador, Viet Nam, Nicaragua, Mexico, India, Egypt, and Dominican Republic." There exists a large market of Made in the US clothing, but it costs twice as much and is generally of poor quality.
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I can affirm this anecdotally- my H&M leggings made in Bangladesh are much, much better done than my doubly-priced American Apparel leggings (made in america or whatever).

JustJames said:
I think you might just have answered your own question there.
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They could try a small builder/assembling their own. For example, my stave kit was built by Terry Thompson in Kentucky, I ordered most of the hardware from Ego in Oregon (they machine their own aluminum stuff), and assembled it right here in Texas. Of course, tension rods, s-hoops, brackets, who knows where those came from, let alone their materiél.
 
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