Explaining Subdivisions.

So I was at rehearsal with my blues band last night, and an issue came up in one of the songs. It was an issue for me anyway, the other guys didn't notice. One of the songs we are practicing has a straight eighth feel. I just play the "money beat" on it. As we were playing it, I kept hearing how the other guys in the band were not consistant with how they were playing any syncopated rhythms that got past eights notes. Sometimes they would play straight 16th notes, and other times they would king of swing them with 16th note triplets. I was getting frustrated because I didn't know what kind of fills to use, straight or swung. I really didn't care how we played it, as long as we were consistant through the whole song. I tried to explain this to the guys, but they just didn't get it. None of them read music and when I started talking about triplets and 16th notes their eyes just glazed over. I tried playing the songs with 16th's on the hihat and then with a 16th note triplet shuffle on the hat, but all they could say was they both sounded too busy. I tried to explain that I would not play the whole song like that, I was just doing it so they could hear the difference in the feel. They just kept saying they liked the eighths notes on the hat better. They were getting frustrated, I was getting frustrated and we were getting nowhere. I wanted to just drop it and let them do whatever they wanted, because I knew they wouldn't get it. They kept wanting to talk about it though. I guess that's good because they wanted to learn, but in the end, I know they still didn't know what I was talking about.

Without hearing you guys, it sounds to me like you need to be the straight man, rhythmically speaking, so they have the freedom to change the feel from the top end. Nothing wrong with keeping it steady. Somebody needs to define the framework so the others can decorate it. I play blues as my main genre and unless the drum part specifically changes from straight to swung, the default is lay down a beat and stick to it.

If you are doing what they are doing, what they are doing loses it's effectiveness.
A red object on a red background doesn't pop.
A red object on a black background pops.
You're the black background, they're the red object.
It's the contrast that makes it feel like they are in triplet mode.
If you go to triplet mode the contrast is gone.
Stay the course.

honestly if you are playing with guys who dont know what 16th notes are I suggest you find different people to play with

and Im dead serious

thats absolutely ridiculous for anyone who plays any instrument...

I dont care if you play kazoo.......you need to be able to have a musical conversation with who you are playing with and not worry about wether they understand something as simple as subdivisions or not.

find some cats who are actually musicians

Larry is right on.

I'm often amazed at how many talented non-drummer musicians don't have a clue about rhythm. If their eyes just glazed over, then it's doubtful any more explanation will help.
Keep it simple and deal, or be prepared to move on.

Oh man. I thought this was a RUSH thread.

sticks4drums said:

Oh man. I thought this was a RUSH thread.

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probably my favorite Rush song

although not as big of a Rush fan as I was as a kid

Yeah- ask your band mates what time sig is Niels favorite.... conform or be cast out....

Toolate said:

Yeah- ask your band mates what time sig is Niels favorite.... conform or be cast out....

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Frickin' brilliant! I too thought this was a Rush thread. That said, if you are having a good time playing with these guys, work it out and learn them! If no fun, move on...

I'm confused - this isn't a Rush thread? Then again - I wasn't sure why a blues band would be playing this song.....

Yeah. What happened to the confounded Rush thread?

I take it the OP likes playing with these guys. My advice is to use other ways to convey the feel of the song. Maybe have them listen to some examples of songs that have a strong triplet feel? Or just don't talk about triplets and 16ths but give it another name like " keepin it bouncy " or " swing it ".

I pretty much decided by the end of that conversation that I was just going to play nothing more complicated than 8th notes. That way it doesn't matter what they play, I won't be conflicting with them. Next up? Tom Sawyer with my bluegrass band!

They need a beat that's predictable so they can go in and out of it. Predictable does not mean boring, it's supposed to mean grooving. Don't fall into the common trap of thinking that you are boring just because you are keeping a steady beat for a few minutes straight. You are NOT boring. In fact being able to keep it straight for that long...allows people to relax. They like it when they know what's coming. You use that to your advantage. It's easy and they like it and it works. Win/Win. The goal is to be effective, not necessarily to work hard.

DrumDoug said:

I was getting frustrated because I didn't know what kind of fills to use, straight or swung....

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larryace said:

Don't fall into the common trap of thinking that you are boring just because you are keeping a steady beat for a few minutes straight....

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Hi Doug

While I can sympathize with your frustration, it's not always necessary to have fills within a tune, sometimes the groove alone is what's suited for the song, any fills would break the feel and the homogeneity of the song and it's best, in these cases, to just lay down the groove with an appropriate cymbal accent at the right time and the right place as suggested by Larry.

Other times, the groove is so beautiful, that you don't want to break it either, it's much depending on what the song really need.