Without Ringo On Ed Sullivan 60 Years Ago Today, How Would Your Drumming Life Be Different?

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doggyd69b said:
A fact that I am NOT disputing, I am just saying that Ringo didn't have any influence on MY drumming.
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At the risk of prolonging this, the continued flogging of a deceased equine ;) he probably had no "direct" influence on your drumming. Rock drumming in general was changed and influenced for most everyone, and its quite likely that Ringo influenced some of the drummers who influenced you.

Just my .02, worth far less than that, even adjusted for inflation
 
doggyd69b said:
I think It could have been any other drummer and the Beatles would have done pretty much the same. Is not that Ringo completely took over their music and made it his, is that his style worked well for what they already had written.
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IMO the success of the Beatles - both commercially and musically/artistically - might be considered that ultimate expression of the idea of... "The Perfect Storm." Change any one factor - a different manager, being assigned to a different producer, delaying replacing drummers, choosing a different drummer, Lennon and McCartney choosing to often separately, but then refine and edit jointly - change anything... and you now have a slightly different "storm"... the likelihood of it a being a slightly different perfect storm is really very slight.

The idea reminds me of when drummers convince themselves some significantly successful recording would be "so much better" if the drum sound was more in line with their taste. Being seemingly unaware of just how hard it is for any record to rise to that level of recognition (another perfect storm scenario) and how much each element of a recording (even small adjustments to those elements) can effect the end result. Example - put Bonham drums on an Eagles record and you'll get something very different - maybe good, maybe not so good. But to expect (again) to create another, slightly different, perfect storm just seems so unlikely.
doggyd69b said:
If any other drummer would have been in that spot it might have sounded a little different but the music would have been mostly the same, Ringo didn't write it he just wrote his drum parts.
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How so? Having done a fair amount of pop songwriter type projects in the studio over the years, the ability to come up the part that becomes one of perfect puzzle pieces of a great recording is the absolute most coveted skill. Being able to play them counts for nothing, compared to the ability to know what to play and what not to play.

So yes, the songs would be the same.... but great songs is just one component of the Beatles' perfect storm. Producing great records was also another huge component.

And this is how the great recording drummers are/were such valuable commodities. Coming up with the perfect part and performance for a recording - not writing drums, as that is a composition function - coming up with great parts for a recording is most often a performance function... They're not so much about serving the song - as they are serving the recording, the performance. You swap out drummers in the Beatles and you'd get very different recordings.... same songs, very different records. No different than you would with swapping out Mitch with Hendrix - or Ginger in Cream - Porcaro with Toto - Billy with Mahavishnu, Leeny with RTF. Very different recordings. Would those recordings been as successful? Maybe.... but unlikely. (see Perfect Storm discussion above)
doggyd69b said:
If the music remained mostly the same, their success or failure would have depended on their exposure and not on Ringo. but If people insist that without Ringo MY playing would be different because without his influence on me I would be maybe playing guitar then go for it, I didn't even know his name until probably the late 80s and by then a lot of other drummers had influenced my playing.
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Not hearing of Ringo until the 80's - would mean that in order to evaluate his playing on your playing, you'd have to look at who influenced you and did Ringo influence them. For example - I never really listened to Chick Webb and Sid Catlett, but they influenced Buddy and his playing influenced me - so their playing has influenced my playing, even if I can't recognize how specifically.
 
dcrigger said:
IMO the success of the Beatles - both commercially and musically/artistically - might be considered that ultimate expression of the idea of... "The Perfect Storm." Change any one factor - a different manager, being assigned to a different producer, delaying replacing drummers, choosing a different drummer, Lennon and McCartney choosing to often separately, but then refine and edit jointly - change anything... and you now have a slightly different "storm"... the likelihood of it a being a slightly different perfect storm is really very slight.

The idea reminds me of when drummers convince themselves some significantly successful recording would be "so much better" if the drum sound was more in line with their taste. Being seemingly unaware of just how hard it is for any record to rise to that level of recognition (another perfect storm scenario) and how much each element of a recording (even small adjustments to those elements) can effect the end result. Example - put Bonham drums on an Eagles record and you'll get something very different - maybe good, maybe not so good. But to expect (again) to create another, slightly different, perfect storm just seems so unlikely.

How so? Having done a fair amount of pop songwriter type projects in the studio over the years, the ability to come up the part that becomes one of perfect puzzle pieces of a great recording is the absolute most coveted skill. Being able to play them counts for nothing, compared to the ability to know what to play and what not to play.

So yes, the songs would be the same.... but great songs is just one component of the Beatles' perfect storm. Producing great records was also another huge component.

And this is how the great recording drummers are/were such valuable commodities. Coming up with the perfect part and performance for a recording - not writing drums, as that is a composition function - coming up with great parts for a recording is most often a performance function... They're not so much about serving the song - as they are serving the recording, the performance. You swap out drummers in the Beatles and you'd get very different recordings.... same songs, very different records. No different than you would with swapping out Mitch with Hendrix - or Ginger in Cream - Porcaro with Toto - Billy with Mahavishnu, Leeny with RTF. Very different recordings. Would those recordings been as successful? Maybe.... but unlikely. (see Perfect Storm discussion above)

Not hearing of Ringo until the 80's - would mean that in order to evaluate his playing on your playing, you'd have to look at who influenced you and did Ringo influence them. For example - I never really listened to Chick Webb and Sid Catlett, but they influenced Buddy and his playing influenced me - so their playing has influenced my playing, even if I can't recognize how specifically.
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I'm sure that if I traced it back far enough yes at some point some drummer that influenced my playing was influenced by Ringo, but I find that unlikely because at the time they were all trying to stray as far from the Beatles sound as possible and if you listen you can hear that it is in fact true. BUT and this is big but, because Ringo was there doing his thing earlier, he came up with things that were not done before him, had he started in this time he would have been just another drummer. There are hundreds of drum techniques that were... discovered way past his time. Most of those techniques used in extreme metal.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
Right. Which was question OP asked.
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I'm sure someone here will go to great lengths to try to explain to me why I was in fact influenced by Ringo (indirectly via other drummers). The truth is I have taken very little from any given drummer that I ever listened to, just a few parts that I liked because I (and I maybe alone here) did NOT wanted to sound like anybody else. I wanted to have my own sound so I created it. i'm also sure that if anyone analyzed it to death (my playing) they could come up with the exact part of the exact album that some of my drumming comes from. Some people have a really hard time accepting when someone doesn't like what they like.
 
doggyd69b said:
I'm sure someone here will go to great lengths to try to explain to me why I was in fact influenced by Ringo (indirectly via other drummers). The truth is I have taken very little from any given drummer that I ever listened to, just a few parts that I liked because I (and I maybe alone here) did NOT wanted to sound like anybody else. I wanted to have my own sound so I created it. i'm also sure that if anyone analyzed it to death (my playing) they could come up with the exact part of the exact album that some of my drumming comes from. Some people have a really hard time accepting when someone doesn't like what they like.
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Exactly. I don't know what demographic is of people on this forum, but I'm guessing a majority were not alive in 1964, or were too young to even remember the show if it happened to be on at their house and they toddled by the TV. I think sometimes people exaggerate or embellish.
 
But as 'doggyd69b' sounds rather conventional and far from unique, you'd have to say he (like EVERYONE else on the forum) has copied favourite drummers, practiced what he heard them playing and is in fact just another cog in the evolutionary drum wheel - again, just like the rest of us. Tell me how this doesn't sound like thousands of other drummers, like me....like you....like a lot of people on this forum.

 
was that Hal Blaine? Carmine Appice or DoggyB

😁
 
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Chris Whitten said:
But as 'doggyd69b' sounds rather conventional and far from unique, you'd have to say he (like EVERYONE else on the forum) has copied favourite drummers, practiced what he heard them playing and is in fact just another cog in the evolutionary drum wheel - again, just like the rest of us. Tell me how this doesn't sound like thousands of other drummers, like me....like you....like a lot of people on this forum.

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yep...I am an unashamed Neil Peart/john Panozzo/Phil Ehart/Joe Morello/Clive Burr/Nicko McBrain/Scott Rockenfield/Marl Zonder/Omar Hakim/Tim Alexander/Alex VanHalen/Bill Ward/Gene Krupa clone.

And i would imagine some of them would cite Ringo as an influence
 
I'd like to hear your "Joe Morello" :)
 
jda said:
I'd like to hear your "Joe Morello" :)
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oh jeez....gonna have to dig deep for that!!! Sounds like a goal for the next couple of weeks!!
 
Chris Whitten said:
The same.
I'm a bad copy of Billy Cobham, Narada Michael Walden, and Lenny White, a slightly better copy of Andy Newark, Jeff Porcaro and Prairie Prince.
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I’m a bad copy of Ian Paice, Alan Myers, Clyde Stubblefield, and Carl Palmer, and a slightly better copy of Paul Cook, Micky Dolenz, and Helen Wiggin from The Shaggs.
 
JimmyM said:
I’m a bad copy of Ian Paice, Alan Myers, Clyde Stubblefield, and Carl Palmer, and a slightly better copy of Paul Cook, Micky Dolenz, and Helen Wiggin from The Shaggs.
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gotta love The Shaggs reference!!!! That is a hard style to copy :cool:
 
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