Why Is It?

Suburbankidz

Well-known member
Without an audio reference, this might as well be hieroglyphics:
it's just how I learn, I'm sure others can look at this and hear it exactly as it should be played.
View attachment 107796

This looks REALLY interesting! (the drag paradiddle exercises in the attachment). Please, is this originally from a book and if so which book? Looking at it I can kind of hear it in my head.

Thanks!
 
This looks REALLY interesting! (the drag paradiddle exercises in the attachment). Please, is this originally from a book and if so which book? Looking at it I can kind of hear it in my head.

Thanks!
It's an exercise from "Modern Rudimental Swing Solos" by Charles Wilcoxon. The book begins with a few individual rudiments. The main part is a collection of solos. You can listen to all of them here (click on the title to watch it on youtube - there you'll have the complete playlist):
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
My last post probably sounds harsher than intended, so I probably need to rectifiy a few things. Sorry for dragging you into this lengthy discussion! :D
Drag away, Swissward. I love your posts.
I guess the discussion reminds me of a similar recurring one: Will a metronome make my playing robotic? / Does it mess with my natural time and ability to listen and groove with a band? I'd say definitely not, as long as you still use your ears. What it will do is showing you that some things are actually not as great as your hearing suggested at first. So it might actually improve your listening abilities.
Quite so.
Unfortunately, metronomes and notation seem to be sidelined quite often, because they might be a little bit frustrating at first. However, the learning curve picks up rather quickly and then you've acquired something very useful and the initial frustration will be gone for good.
I'm still with you.
I've found that transcriptions by good authors are often very accurate.
Yup. It's a matter of finding good authors. And if nothing else, you can use a transcription as a guide and modify parts to suit your own tastes and style.
Definitely, use your ears and listen to the original. Transcribing yourself is a great way to develop your hearing, too. So again, I feel like eyes and ears can work together.
No complaints there. That's the definition of being well rounded.
 

jimb

Member
I find basic jazz grooves extremely easy but my trouble is the comp stabs on the snare.....Because their written down from time immemorial, if you get them wrong playing any of the standards, heads start to turn, jazz can be a bit up itself.
 

opentune

Platinum Member
It's not really about the knowledge, it's about how it's conveyed. People, in my experience, are willing to learn as long as the person with the knowledge isn't condescending with said knowledge.
When someone comes in and immediately starts using technical jargon and multi-syllable words like they read the thesaurus beforehand makes the majority shut down as they feel as though they're being talked down to or being told in an offhand way that they're less than.
I teach for a living and there is an innate insecurity of many students that if you are providing or explaining something they don't know of, you are 'condescending'. The word ends up on every teaching evaluation.

Any teacher worth his/her salt is an awful teacher if resorting first to jargon and technical detail. 'Blowing them away'. Thats ineffective and of course poor communication. They are either showing off to impress, or oblivious to their audience. Not somebody to listen to or learn from. Next please.

But you have to admit there is basic musical jargon to learn at first in any genre to converse with bandmates. If buddy in the R&B or rock band says something about the downbeat, backbeat, ritard, or the middle 8, we need to learn what these words mean. Jazz has its jargon, something I've personally never learned but would like to.

There is arrogance and chest-puffing in all fields - science, literature, music, sports, .....gotta set up your filter. Can't let a poor teacher or communicator turn us off from a subject one is interested in.

A great thread for discussion.
 
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Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
....The ability to decipher drum charts can be very useful, but I wouldn't trade my ear for the best sight-reading skills on the planet.

in my experience, my sight reading skills have made me way more money than my ears...especially in the studio, and at pit orchestra and regular orchestral gigs...but I am just one little blip in a huge world of 'em
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
I teach for a living and there is an innate insecurity of many students that if you are providing or explaining something they don't know of, you are 'condescending'. The word ends up on every teaching evaluation.

Any teacher worth his/her salt is an awful teacher if resorting first to jargon and technical detail. 'Blowing them away'. Thats ineffective and of course poor communication. They are either showing off to impress, or oblivious to their audience. Not somebody to listen to or learn from. Next please.

But you have to admit there is basic musical jargon to learn at first in any genre to converse with bandmates. If buddy in the R&B or rock band says something about the downbeat, backbeat, ritard, or the middle 8, we need to learn what these words mean. Jazz has its jargon, something I've personally never learned but would like to.

There is arrogance and chest-puffing in all fields - science, literature, music, sports, .....gotta set up your filter. Can't let a poor teacher or communicator turn us off from a subject one is interested in.

A great thread for discussion.

I teach as well...for 30+ years in both band and private lesson settings; 8yrs old to adults...

and the whole 'condescending 'thing is a problem with society, not teachers. Eschewing "jargon" is a societal problem, not the teachers problem. People don't like to made to feel uncomfortable anymore, which to me os BS. There is not enough room in this post for me to bitch about it, and explain my solution, but I will say that I never skip teaching reading. I give a full on explanation to my students that from the beginning, we are going to learn how to spell, write and read the syntax of our language. Yes, we will also get to speak it and copy sounds, but it is skipping a major fundamental to not teach reading from the get go, especially if they are younger, when their brains are more ready to soak up that kind of info

obviously, I pace the learning to fit their comfort level, and make it fun - and directly applicable to what we are doing - but part of my teaching process - because I am old school - is to get them to NOT be afraid of failure and being uncomfortable with subjects....

and I bring that up in the very first lesson, while the parent is there too (if they are younger than 14ish). I say: " we are going to do some things that will put you outside of your comfort zone, but that is only to make you better, and more solid in the future. If you do things the correct way, in the correct order, and you DON'T skip parts of the process, then there will never be any "uncomfortable" parts of learning drums, or anything for that matter. That lack of comfort comes from lack of preparation" <- I reiterate this quite a bit...

so I don't shy away from "jargon", and I don't think anyone should. I just have figured out how to sprinkle it in so it doesn't seem cumbersome, and I think all great teachers are the ones who let the students think they are doing their own thing, when they are really doing the teachers plan the whole time
 
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