The tempo is wrong!!

No guessing what-so-ever in my bands. The original album tempo is next to every song on my set lists. If we decide as a band to do a different tempo, fine, I use that one. I used to use a Tama Rhythm Watch for myself to hear and be sure to get the song started on the exact temp. Then, I'd watch/use LiveBPM to stay on track. That worked pretty well. In the last 3 years since going IEM's in both bands, I put the Rhythm Watch click in my ears to start off and pretty soon after just left it on. Now I fully play 95% of the material to a click all the way through. I love it. There's never a question or issue about too fast or slow ever.

Earlier in my career, it seemed more like I fought between the click and the band, trying to navigate between the two and often struggled. But quickly after a month or so of consistent use, you hear the click as just another instrument. You don't even notice it after that point, it's just the main instrument you listen to and all the others follow along on the ride with you. At times you can get off a slight bit but you learn to bring it back in line like it's no big deal. At extended breaks or retard endings I just hit the off button. It's been easier than I initially thought to master.
 
Winston_Wolf said:
Everyone feels time and tempo slightly differently. Everyone also feels that they're feeling it correctly, and someone else is wrong.

That's why playing to a click can be valuable. At that point everyone has to objectively be in tempo and it takes all of the feelings out of it.

If you can't play to a click you also most likely can't play at that exact tempo either. Normally close enough and steady can be good enough for most people, but in cases where there is a...difference of opinion, you have to be ready to back it up with locking in with a click.
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church....

and when this happpens with me - which is very rarely b/c people know that my whole life is on the click track in marching band, i just put a met on, and tell them to play

and when there is fail, my answer to all of the usual 'I can't play to the click track because" excuses is

"exactly"
 
ottog1979 said:
No guessing what-so-ever in my bands. The original album tempo is next to every song on my set lists. If we decide as a band to do a different tempo, fine, I use that one. I used to use a Tama Rhythm Watch for myself to hear and be sure to get the song started on the exact temp. Then, I'd watch/use LiveBPM to stay on track. That worked pretty well. In the last 3 years since going IEM's in both bands, I put the Rhythm Watch click in my ears to start off and pretty soon after just left it on. Now I fully play 95% of the material to a click all the way through. I love it. There's never a question or issue about too fast or slow ever.

Earlier in my career, it seemed more like I fought between the click and the band, trying to navigate between the two and often struggled. But quickly after a month or so of consistent use, you hear the click as just another instrument. You don't even notice it after that point, it's just the main instrument you listen to and all the others follow along on the ride with you. At times you can get off a slight bit but you learn to bring it back in line like it's no big deal. At extended breaks or retard endings I just hit the off button. It's been easier than I initially thought to master.
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I totally agree...one of the things we tell the drumline kids - and the whole band really - is that they need to be able to hear the click even when it is not on....internalize the pulse. it is the only way to keep 50+ kids running around on the field together.

it does become another instrument honestly....sort of like clave in Afro-Cuban music....
 
Had it happen a couple of times from the control freaks in the world. Every drummer will count things off differently unless you're all playing to a click. The tempo will naturally fluctuate for many factors if like me you don't use a click on stage. If I've played something too slow or fast we laugh it off on stage. If you take that crap off stage that's a problem you don't need and the polite reply ends in off.

Most of the time they're jealous because the band is following you and not them.

As long as people are up dancing and you're getting paid don't worry. If this guy is a massive artist and is paying your bills then worry, but I very much doubt it.
 
It was the easiest way to criticise someone, or let off steam - target something as vague as tempo.
I have experienced this many, many times. The way to fix it is to agree on a tempo in rehearsals, then have a machine or technological metronome to check before counting any song off in concert.
Songs almost always need to be a little faster in live performance than on the record, so don't just get record tempos and argue that you are correct. The best tempo needs to be found in rehearsal and agreed by everyone before the first show.
My set list has the agreed bpm next to every song. I have a set list in my SPD-SX that has a metronome/click built in, but you can do it with a simple metronome, or phone app.
 
mikyok said:
As long as people are up dancing and you're getting paid don't worry. If this guy is a massive artist and is paying your bills then worry, but I very much doubt it.
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The best feel is governed by the correct tempo. The ability to sing the lyrics is governed by the correct tempo. So I never ignore this debate. But it has to be agreed by everyone before hand.
I don't get my tempos right when I'm tired, or of I have jet lag. I solved this whole issue by having some kind of metronome/click with all the agreed tempos programmed in.
 
Chris Whitten said:
Songs almost always need to be a little faster in live performance than on the record,
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Disagree with this common statement. I think it's common because it's the trail wagging the dog. The tendency is to naturally play faster / too fast live. Not that live needs faster.

When you hire a DJ instead, they're not plaguing faster tempo recordings are they? Nobody in the audience (dancers) has a problem with DJ tempos.
 
ottog1979 said:
Disagree with this common statement. I think it's common because it's the trail wagging the dog.
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My comment comes from literally years of performing records in concert with major artists. You can disagree if you like.

ottog1979 said:
When you hire a DJ instead, they're not plaguing faster tempo recordings are they?
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Yes, absolutely. Modern decks - vinyl, CD or Wav have tempo controls. The DJ adjusts the tempo to match the previous or next record they are mixing AND to suit the mood on the dance floor.
 
I play with a metronome whenever I play with my current band. I'm very thankful for it because my starting tempos on my own will vary depending on how I'm feeling; it's a weakness of mine.

If I've had a long day at work and I have rehearsal late that evening, I tend to click songs off too slowly. The opposite happens if I'm feeling particularly well. Using a metronome helps tremendously.
 
Duck Tape said:
I work with a musician who likes to say that the song is the wrong tempo at rehearsal and they're simply wrong, it has happened several times where someone has pulled out a phone and played the song for reference and I was bang on, if 5bpm out. I think they just like saying it as a reflex or to look clever or something and it gets on my nerves.

Despite me believing in my tempo accuracy the more they question me the less confident I become when I count off the song and then I am more likely to get it wrong and then it's like a self fulfilling prophecy or something.

How do you brush off/shut down these comments? Like, we don't tell them they're playing the wrong mode or whatever because they would say "oh you're just a drummer what do you know?"
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Ok, I second the use of LiveBPM. I use it at practices and for all gigs with my Classic Rock band. I do not use it for the Duo/Trio playing blues, rock, funk etc.

Now, you noted that you were within 5 BPM, however 5 BPM fast or slow can be a big problem for singers, guitar and bass players. It depends on the song. Some songs are difficult to sing slow and some songs are very difficult to do the bass runs or guitar licks fast. The key is to know which songs it is critical not to be too fast and which ones are a problem if too slow (i.e. off more than a couple of BPM)

I also use Songbook Pro which has a metronome that can be set for 10 second count in. I use this to ensure I start at the exact tempo agreed on by the band.

LiveBPM shows the last five or more minutes so you can show you band that the tempo didn't waver.
 
In my jazz group it’s the pianist/band leader who counts us in at the start of each number. It’s always been that way, & I’m the “new” guy (even after two years), so that won’t change.

A click is out, for that reason, and because it’s Jazz! ;)

Live BPM is a godsend. It doesn’t impose, it just shows you the truth. The band knows I have it & will often ask me how well we kept tempo on a tune we’re rehearsing. The whole band loves having it as a reference.

:)
 
Huw Owens said:
In my jazz group it’s the pianist/band leader who counts us in at the start of each number. It’s always been that way, & I’m the “new” guy (even after two years), so that won’t change.

A click is out, for that reason, and because it’s Jazz! ;)

Live BPM is a godsend. It doesn’t impose, it just shows you the truth. The band knows I have it & will often ask me how well we kept tempo on a tune we’re rehearsing. The whole band loves having it as a reference.

:)
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Love it! No pressure when someone else sets the tempo. I had that in a Rockabilly band where the upright bass player was responsible for the tempo. Gave me the freedom to push and pull songs.

Also love LiveBPM. Downside, you know if you were the one that sped up or slowed down the band-honesty can hurt but boy do you learn to hold the tempo steady.
 
Chris Whitten said:
Modern decks
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True... at giant clubs, rave parties, etc. (Sophisticated DJ's)

But the juke boxes at 1,000's of bars & pubs for instance. Tomorrow night I'm playing a popular music bar in town. Between band sets they turn on the juke box for house music that's playing all the rock stuff we know, right off the original recording. Everybody's dancing and I guarantee not a one is thinking "this is too slow."
 
Which brings me to ask, and you might know Chis Whitten, why record slower if live is enjoyed faster?
 
ottog1979 said:
Which brings me to ask, and you might know Chis Whitten, why record slower if live is enjoyed faster?
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The tempo is always right for the record. Playing live requires some more apparent energy and enthusiasm, which usually means kicking the song up a couple of BPMs. It's not about enjoyment. It's about translating the recording to a live performance without sounding staid, pedestrian.
 
ottog1979 said:
Everybody's dancing and I guarantee not a one is thinking "this is too slow."
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If you saw those bands playing live I guarantee the songs would all be a little faster.
You set the tempo so it feels right in a live playing scenario, not based on if anyone is dancing for not.
 
Huw Owens said:
In my jazz group it’s the pianist/band leader who counts us in at the start of each number. It’s always been that way, & I’m the “new” guy (even after two years), so that won’t change.

A click is out, for that reason, and because it’s Jazz! ;)

Live BPM is a godsend. It doesn’t impose, it just shows you the truth. The band knows I have it & will often ask me how well we kept tempo on a tune we’re rehearsing. The whole band loves having it as a reference.

:)
Click to expand...

same here....our leader (guitar) brings us in, and often times will admit when he has started something too slow or fast...and i have never felt uncomfortable with him doing it

and a lot of people are mentioning outside factors affecting count offs at show. That is something I have never expereinced. I am not at all bragging, but I know that I will give a count off at the correct tempo no matter what

I found out early on in my life that I have...I guess you would call it "perfect tempo" (like perfect pitch)? I have always had the ability to just get the tempo of a song correct after the first few listens...to the point that it really , really bothers me when songs are not played at the tempo of the original recording.

My most revered group ever - Rush - was always real guilty of this live. I feel like they played a lot of stuff slower live than on record.
 
Duck Tape said:
I work with a musician who likes to say that the song is the wrong tempo at rehearsal and they're simply wrong, it has happened several times where someone has pulled out a phone and played the song for reference and I was bang on, if 5bpm out. I think they just like saying it as a reflex or to look clever or something and it gets on my nerves.

Despite me believing in my tempo accuracy the more they question me the less confident I become when I count off the song and then I am more likely to get it wrong and then it's like a self fulfilling prophecy or something.

How do you brush off/shut down these comments? Like, we don't tell them they're playing the wrong mode or whatever because they would say "oh you're just a drummer what do you know?"
Click to expand...
tell em make sure drums are mixed to my satisfaction (like they want their instruments to be) and listen to playbacks. Some don’t really recognize or appreciate drums or what might be good grooving or just bad. BETTER either lay down drums first then let them play to it, OR let them lay down their stuff and I play to it.
 
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