OK, educate me, please (thrones)

B

BruceW

Senior Member
I know that there is a reason things get priced the way they do, and this isn't about being cheap. I'd just like someone to explain to me what the real difference is in using a Porter and Davies throne. As opposed to one without the butt thumping.

A local drummer friend who is arguably at the top of the heap among local drummers (truly amazing player, and a great guy too) just posted a photo with his Porter and Davies, proclaiming that it's a "gamechanger". I went and looked them up, and about keeled over. Went online and saw many, many folks expressing similar opinions.

So my question to the far more experienced and far more talented collective we have here, exactly how does that make what you do end up "better"? I think I can understand the coolness factor. It's not about how someone spends their money, I can understand having the disposable $$$ and wanting nice things. (Even if that doesn't apply to me, lol) If there was a reason it helped playing, I'd have to put that on my list of things to try and get at some point. (Probably not one of those, but maybe one of the Butt Thumper or similar types.)
 
Just a second..im gonna YouTube this butt thumping Porter and Davies. I've got a Roc-n-soc backrest throne and although not butt thumping it IS a pain in the azz to haul around.
 
Wait, so your question is “how does a butt thumping throne make you play better”??

It’s a feature that helps you keep in time with whatever is the source of the thump. If you have a great internal sense of time, you may not need it. If you have no trouble hearing the bass player, because it’s a quiet stage or you wear in-ears or whatever reason, you may not need it. If your time speeds or drags, or you lose track of the 1, or the bassist sounds like a muddy blur, maybe having a device reminding you of the beat is helpful.

Edit: I wrote that assuming the PD was like the Butt Kicker, a transducer amplifying an external input from the PA mix. But the other posts make it sound like the PD is triggered by your own kick. I guess that would be nice for people playing triggered kick drums that don’t make much sound of their own?
 
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I have one and it really does contribute to a richer playing experience. The P & D is different from the ButtKicker in that it uses a transducer to transfer sound into something you feel and hear internally. So you experience the entire signal including the attack, sustain and decay. The ButtKicker has a physical piston that is activated by the signal from your bass drum, sort of the way video game chairs work.

I'll add that they are favored by people who play e-kits because they allow you to feel the drums in a way that is closer to the experience of playing acoustic drums.
 
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WuHan Solo said:
getting that tactile feedback from the kick and how it affects their playing. There really is something to feeling your own kick drum.
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I use one for nearly every gig with my own kit. I can hear just fine through IEM's but really like the tactile add.
 
WuHan Solo said:
For some, it's about not being able to hear their kick drum, due to using triggers, electronics, IEMs, low volume monitors or otherwise. For others, it's about getting that tactile feedback from the kick and how it affects their playing. There really is something to feeling your own kick drum. Very hard to describe, but when you feel it, you know.
Not recommended for those that use fluffy beaters.



If you think that's a pain to haul, buy yourself a Porter & Davies......... or for even more complications, go the Buttkicker route.
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I did some youtubing on the P&D with the kicker. Just the price had me wanting aspirin to ward off a heart attack. I could get a Sonor vintage phonic kit for the price of two P&D-w-kicker seats. If it helps someone god bless them.
 
Since I’ve been losing my hearing over years I note I use vibratory mechanoreception to aid in sound detection. I know many musicians through history and today that rely on vibrations from sound. I can see the PD one really being worth it in my future. So the PD transmits all the sound ?

I can’t hear without hearing aids. But Hearing aids are useless in some situations and I’ve been thinking of linking hearing aids by Bluetooth to either a glove or patch that would convert the sounds to vibrations like Morris code or raise braille like bumps to help in deciphered auditory signals in aids. It could really help in direction of sound also. But I like all the sound even better. I should write PD a letter that they could have a side business helping people hear by applying their technology.
 
I’ve had a Porter and Davies for a few years now. It is the absolute best drum purchase I’ve ever made. It all started when I was playing on a stage that had a row of subs across the front. The house had the kick cranked. I could feel the vibrations coming up through my throne. I was amazed at the difference it made. I didn’t just hear the rhythm of my bass drum, I could feel it. I could feel it when my kick slightly rushed or slightly dragged. You could feel it when you were right in the pocket. I had been having kick monitoring issues before then. My band was so loud that I couldn’t ever hear my kick. I had a wedge monitor but the guitar player complained my kick was too loud in it. The Porter and Davies solved issues I didn’t even know I had. It’s a slight pain to haul around. It’s a little heavier than a regular throne, and there’s a small bag with the amp that runs it. The biggest disadvantage, is that once you get used to it, it’s really hard to play without it. The kick mic doesn’t just pick up the kick, it picks up a small amount of the whole kit. The P&D makes the whole kit sound fuller. Playing without it makes the kit feel empty. If I lost all my drum gear, I would start over with a P&D and build from there. I would rather have and old set of Exports with the P&D than the most expensive kit without. As far as the less expensive Butt Kicker, despite what Bermuda will say, don’t bother. The Butt Kicker is literally a piston that hits the bottom of your throne when you hit the kick. The P&D converts sound into vibrations. You can dial in how much low end and sustain you want to feel. All that being said, it depends on your playing situation. If you play mostly at home and you are not constantly competing with bass amps and sub woofers, then you might not need or appreciate it as much. I don’t use it on my practice kit at home or my kit at church. If you’re a gigging drummer, it will change your playing life.
 
I appreciate all the replies.

Sounds like, for me, it might be a cool thing if I ever won the lottery, but nothing I'm gonna worry about missing out on.

While I've never played in arenas or even big auditoriums, I have played for 400+ a few times, and we were appropriately loud. I have never put any kick in my monitors...its right there, at the end of my foot 😉 I know what it's doing.

It sounds like it's an amazing immersion into the whole experience, but it also doesn't seem practical or necessary, to me for my situation. I'm glad that it makes such a big impact on those who use it, it does sound very cool.
 
I have the Porter & Davies BC Gigster. The hype is real! At least for me, it is. I didn't get it because I couldn't hear my kick drum, (which is why most people get it, for loud stages and such). I got it because my foot has always felt slightly "detached" from my hands, and I wanted better control.

It greatly improves the tactile feedback I feel coming from my foot and kick drum. Therefore, it makes me feel more in control of my foot. That's the bottom line.

I have more precise control of the placement of my kick drum so that it is more "in the pocket" with my hands. For that, it's totally worth the price.
 
IBitePrettyHard said:
I have the Porter & Davies BC Gigster. The hype is real! At least for me, it is. I didn't get it because I couldn't hear my kick drum, (which is why most people get it, for loud stages and such). I got it because my foot has always felt slightly "detached" from my hands, and I wanted better control.

It greatly improves the tactile feedback I feel coming from my foot and kick drum. Therefore, it makes me feel more in control of my foot. That's the bottom line.

I have more precise control of the placement of my kick drum so that it is more "in the pocket" with my hands. For that, it's totally worth the price.
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That's really interesting. I guess I'd have to try it to understand fully, but thanks for trying to "educate" me. It does seem cool
 
bongoman said:
It’s a feature that helps you keep in time with whatever is the source of the thump. If you have a great internal sense of time, you may not need it.
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It has nothing to do with time keeping.
For me it's all about monitoring and how quiet I can have my monitoring to save my ears.
With a butt thumper type device I get the feeling that my kit is thunderingly loud, when it actually isn't.
With a low end vibration your brain is fooled into thinking you've got a lot of bass drum volume going on.
 
BruceW said:
I have never put any kick in my monitors...its right there, at the end of my foot 😉 I know what it's doing.
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Then you probably have no use for one. It's really about getting the sensation that your kick is loud, and allows you to have less volume in your monitor. Less drums in your monitor allows you to have everything else quieter in your monitor. It's all good news for the ears.
 
BruceW said:
I appreciate all the replies.

Sounds like, for me, it might be a cool thing if I ever won the lottery, but nothing I'm gonna worry about missing out on.

While I've never played in arenas or even big auditoriums, I have played for 400+ a few times, and we were appropriately loud. I have never put any kick in my monitors...it’s right there, at the end of my foot 😉 I know what it's doing.
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You’ve never played in situations where it is so loud on stage you can’t hear the drums? I’ve literally been playing on stage and unable to even hear my kit. Maybe just a little bit of the snare. I’m thinking to myself, the cymbals are moving when I hit them, I guess I’m playing them. The kick drum is always the first thing to get lost on a loud stage.
 
DrumDoug said:
You’ve never played in situations where it is so loud on stage you can’t hear the drums? I’ve literally been playing on stage and unable to even hear my kit. Maybe just a little bit of the snare. I’m thinking to myself, the cymbals are moving when I hit them, I guess I’m playing them. The kick drum is always the first thing to get lost on a loud stage.
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Well... I suppose it's a question of how much I'm hearing, but I guess I've never played so loud that I couldn't hear what I'm doing. Over the other stuff, no. But I can hear it. The kick less than the other stuff, I suppose, but I hear enough.

As for "how loud", well we play classic rock and modern country (among other stuff, lol) and have played in rooms to over 400 people. That's a big venue for little ole us. Its appropriately loud for such venues. I would call it pretty loud ;) I'm hitting pretty much as hard as I can while being able to play properly, which I rarely ever do in smaller venues. Fortunately we don't play at that volume all the time, but it's fun to let it all out every so often.

I try to keep as much out of my monitor mix as possible, and play off the room. Mostly vocals in my monitor in most venues. Tho admittedly in those bigger venues (for us) I'll tend to have more of the other instruments in there too. I guess I could add kick in there, but I've never felt the need for it.
 
Is it necessary? No. Do I enjoy it? Absolutely. Here's the best description I can give. It's not about hearing but feeling. Have you ever played a gig with house sound set-up where the drum monitor has a decent sub and the monitor is cranked (probably louder than it should be) or there are subs underneath the stage and you very much feel what you're doing in addition to hearing it? That's the Buttkicker or Porter & Davis experience.
 
Like I have written a few years back in another thread:
IMHO a Porter and Davies is worth every cent. I use their BC Gigster and I am absolutely happy with it. Invaluable especially when playing with in-ears. I have also used “butt-kickers“ before, but the P&D plays in a completely different league. I would not miss it anymore.
It also improved my bass drum technique.

I am absolutely with DrumDoug: it‘s one of the best drum related purchases I have ever made 👍🏻
 
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