Nordic vs Keller shells

Walnut shells made in Italy. Tulip wood shells made by Nordic. Where is:

"At Noble & Cooley, we make only professional drums, primarily by hand, in our factory in Granville, Massachusetts."

I guess, except for Italian walnut shells and Nordic shells?
 
Walnut shells made in Italy. Tulip wood shells made by Nordic. Where is:

"At Noble & Cooley, we make only professional drums, primarily by hand, in our factory in Granville, Massachusetts."

I guess, except for Italian walnut shells and Nordic shells?
There is more to making a drum set than the wooden cylinder . Most companies have a proprietary ply makeup they request from various companies like Keller or Nordic or Gladstone . The bearing edges , lug placement and size , finish work (interior and exterior ) all take a lot of skill and time . N&C most likely get their walnut shells for their kits from DS an Italian drum company that makes their own excellent drums .
I have owned a Horizon N&C shell bank and a CD Maple kit and they are fine drums , as good as anything made today regardless of who makes the shells .
I honestly don’t care if a drum company makes their shells in house or not . I have two kits that the company makes their own shells (Ludwig and Tama ) and one that doesn’t make their own shell (Gretsch ) and guess what ? I like the Gretsch most .
 
There is more to making a drum set than the wooden cylinder . Most companies have a proprietary ply makeup they request from various companies like Keller or Nordic or Gladstone . The bearing edges , lug placement and size , finish work (interior and exterior ) all take a lot of skill and time . N&C most likely get their walnut shells for their kits from DS an Italian drum company that makes their own excellent drums .
I have owned a Horizon N&C shell bank and a CD Maple kit and they are fine drums , as good as anything made today regardless of who makes the shells .
I honestly don’t care if a drum company makes their shells in house or not . I have two kits that the company makes their own shells (Ludwig and Tama ) and one that doesn’t make their own shell (Gretsch ) and guess what ? I like the Gretsch most .
Point is it's misleading when they elude to making their drums by hand ("we make only professional drums, primarily by hand") when Union shells are made by a third party contractor, and walnut shells come from Italy. That's just misleading. They ain't making those shells. Period. All those pics of sawdust and wood shavings elude to a small shop painstakingly making each and every drum by hand from trees they chopped down out in back of their workshop. It's a bunch of BS. Good marketing, but quite misleading.
 
[...] however some of those old drums "do a thing" that is very pleasing and sought after by players. Some of that is the extra aging of the wood etc. but perhaps the looseness in the process created some drums with magic and a whole lot of out of round firewood.......

Time will tell

Oh, yes they do! I swear those old 3-ply kits have a soul to them, and they have songs to sing that I enjoy coaxing out of them. I just set up my 3-ply Ludwig "Club Classic" at a new rehearsal space, and once again I was reminded, "Oh yeah, THIS is why I bought this drum kit!" Man, it sounds so good.


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Point is it's misleading when they elude to making their drums by hand ("we make only professional drums, primarily by hand") when Union shells are made by a third party contractor, and walnut shells come from Italy. That's just misleading. They ain't making those shells. Period. All those pics of sawdust and wood shavings elude to a small shop painstakingly making each and every drum by hand from trees they chopped down out in back of their workshop. It's a bunch of BS. Good marketing, but quite misleading.

I don't want to agree with this statement, but I have to. I know that there is a ton of work that goes into making a drum from a raw shell, and I have no doubts that custom drum makers take care in the process. However, I've seen those ads where some of these "drum makers" show these Instagram-ready close-ups of them hand-sanding shells and blowing the dust off the shell in slow motion. While it makes for a cool aesthetic, there is a certain level of misleading happening here (it does to me anyways).
 
Pause.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here......

N&C makes a lot of drums in their shop, by hand, sawdust on floor, sanding wheel turning etc. That is where they make their steam bent snares and have for decades. I've been there. I have seen it. I have touched it. I have seen the insane steam chamber thingy they have and the tools they have made, the hardware stations where hardware is made and polished from station to station.

In fact since I have done a ton of woodworking I asked Jay while I was there about their joint on the steam bent shells and he grabbed a piece of scrap tulip, turned on the machine and cut one of their scarf joints for me to see and play with........trust me, they know how to and do build plenty of drums in MA.

I also follow them on social media and if you notice damn near all of their sanding, first coat application videos are of snares......that is what they make in. Granville. A raw shell is delivered to them for the ply series drums and they cut and finish just like every other drum maker does that outsources a series of shells.

Local wood delivered to Granville is used for steam bent snares for the most part.

I wouldn't call any of it BS......sure they don't overtly say "Our ply shells are made elsewhere", but then again not many do shout that from rooftops.

Smart Marketing? Yes. Marketing is rarely not smartly done by professionals.

If their approach bothers someone, move on, buy something else. Simple as that.
 
So for N&C, up until recently, the CD and Horizon were Keller (now Nordic) but all the Walnut series was in house on the Witt equipment...so the walnuts will go Nordic too? What about the 1st generation Horizon, who did these shells?
I believe my first generation Horizon series shells were made by Keller. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Point is it's misleading when they elude to making their drums by hand ("we make only professional drums, primarily by hand") when Union shells are made by a third party contractor, and walnut shells come from Italy. That's just misleading. They ain't making those shells. Period. All those pics of sawdust and wood shavings elude to a small shop painstakingly making each and every drum by hand from trees they chopped down out in back of their workshop. It's a bunch of BS. Good marketing, but quite misleading.
The vast majority of the drums made by N&C are their steambent single ply snares that are in fact made in-house . This also an includes the strainer and lugs made in house (not many majors can attest to that fact). Drum set sales are a very small percentage of their sales . I would hazard a guess that they don’t make even 100 kits total per year .

Look at Pork Pie - he has an ad stating Made by an American with these hands . He doesn’t make any shells either but I don’t hear you complaining that his ads are misleading .
 
The vast majority of the drums made by N&C are their steambent single ply snares that are in fact made in-house . This also an includes the strainer and lugs made in house (not many majors can attest to that fact). Drum set sales are a very small percentage of their sales . I would hazard a guess that they don’t make even 100 kits total per year .

Look at Pork Pie - he has an ad stating Made by an American with these hands . He doesn’t make any shells either but I don’t hear you complaining that his ads are misleading .

Good points. The Pork Pie web site ain't responding right now. When it does load I'll look at it. I'll complain if needed no need to worry about that lol.

In meantime, I looked at the Wikipedia for both companies. PP clearly states info on manufacturing in Asia. Nothing about Nordic/ Keller shells.

"Pork Pie Percussion is a US musical instrument manufacturing company based in Canoga Park, California. Established in 1987, it has been producing handmade Drum kits and hardware since then. Part of the products are manufactured in Taiwan."

"Recently, Pork Pie has introduced the Little Squealer line, the Piglite acrylic line and the Big Black Brass snare drums. The Big Black Brass drum as well as the Little Squealers are MADE IN TAIWAN. Piglite drums are made in California."

Looking at N&C Wikipedia, there ain't anything about Nordic shells, Italian shells. Nothing. It all appears as if tiny elves in NE USA are harvesting trees they grew themselves and hand making drums in an underground secret shelter. Same with their web site. Their marketing is a major stretch from truth about their ply shell kits.

Rest assured you can count on lots of complaining from me on lots of topics.
Monday Morning GIF by Teddy Too Big
 
If it wasn't for this forum and Nick's podcast, I wouldn't have known about Keller. Nothing wrong with that, their work is outstanding but it is confusing what is and not made where. However, the walnut shells are still a mystery regarding the detailed description posted and comment laid; Keller, Nordic, Granville, Italy (?!).

Also in confusing N&C news: last fall Nick shared a big announcement departure and I thought I saw Jay and Nick's names taken down from the website. Curiously, the Jones are back up with Jay & wife 'retire' status and still stating Nick as 'owner' now focusing on N&C 'real estate' but appears to have stepped down in drum building


 
"Making shells" (could also be simply called "cylinders") and "making drums" are not the same thing, same as with "making blanks" and "making cymbals". Nordic and Keller make shells. Gretsch and Pork Pie make drums. DW, Ludwig, etc. make both. N&C are kinda 50/50. It's not hard to understand, and unless some company touts that they're molding shells and then not, then nothing is misleading; the making of drums from outsourced shells still produces sawdust.
 
Ludwig, etc. make both.
Even that is kinda debatable, right? Most of the major companies have some beginner/intermediate lines that are manufactured and assembled overseas. As mentioned by somebody else, these things are all made spec, so it's not like it's just generic off the shelf parts. There is a large element of planning and design.

I guess this subject just doesn't cause me any kind of dissonance. If N&C or Pork Pie bought the shell manufacturer, would that make it more legit? Do they need to crack open the earth with hand tools to extract the ore that gets smelted?
 
Even that is kinda debatable, right?
Well, no, but I get where you're coming from. I didn't specify "for every model they make". A company either does or does not.
 
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Look, I've got beef about the way the Joneses were handled to the point where I won't buy any of their products anymore. But to say their stuff is not handmade on site is ridiculous. If you ask them where they get their shells for their kits, they'll tell you. But they make a lot of their hardware on site by hand and all the solid snares are made by hand. I was blown away when I took the tour and saw the whole process. It'd be hard to get much more handmade than N&C.
 
Even that is kinda debatable, right? Most of the major companies have some beginner/intermediate lines that are manufactured and assembled overseas. As mentioned by somebody else, these things are all made spec, so it's not like it's just generic off the shelf parts. There is a large element of planning and design.

I guess this subject just doesn't cause me any kind of dissonance. If N&C or Pork Pie bought the shell manufacturer, would that make it more legit? Do they need to crack open the earth with hand tools to extract the ore that gets smelted?
Lol…

Yeah, hand made stuff by a single crafts person is nice for sure, but at the end of the day, I just want a set that I can tune, hit and smile. Whether a company makes their own shells or farms it out means very little to me, even if I appreciate the artistry. I don’t care how they kill the garbanzo beans…I just want to eat the hummus.
 
All those pics of sawdust and wood shavings elude to a small shop painstakingly making each and every drum by hand from trees they chopped down out in back of their workshop.
I've been to the factory multiple times. They make the steam bent single ply drums from scratch by hand. That is their leading product, which is why they post pictures of locally sourced logs coming in to the factory and why there is piles of wood clippings and sawdust on the floor.
As some others above have mentioned, taking a blank wood cylinder to a professional level shell takes a lot of work, plus experience and skill.
The blank shell (made exactly the N&C spec) is edged accurately, painted and hardware attached. It is then checked for quality before being sent out to a store as part of a kit.
 
Yeah, hand made stuff by a single crafts person is nice for sure, but at the end of the day, I just want a set that I can tune, hit and smile. Whether a company makes their own shells or farms it out means very little to me
Pretty much all the innovation in drums and cymbals has come from small makers (one to three person outfits). When I was a busy working drummer the mainstream companies had zero interest in innovation and just thought making and selling decent quality drums was good enough.
Just from my limited personal experience....
Lombardi was making kick pedals out of his home, soon afterwards DW revolutionised hardware for drummers. N&C pretty much single handedly relaunched the concept of single ply drums. Gauger invented suspension mounts. Dave Simmons invented the playable electronic drum set.
Apart from that, I am happy to financial support small local makers, rather than my money disappearing into the bank accounts of some large corporation with unknown share holders and benefactors.
 
Look, I've got beef about the way the Joneses were handled to the point where I won't buy any of their products anymore.
I gathered they sorted out something, how do you feel now that Nick has remained 'owner' but stepped down from active drum building? It looked like they made some of their drama public and it has settled down. Probably make business sense to have a Jones in the company, if not just for the name, perhaps some experience oversight as well...plus makes their loyal boutique customers feel better, especially in their expansion efforts to not entirely sell out but rather grow....wise choice.

Canopus outsources many of their shell builds which I have no problem with. I believe someone mentioned the NeoVintage is done by Stone, some of the other mainline shells may be from Taiwan to their specs, only the Zelkovas are Japanese shells...some of small number specialty shell snares are partnered with custom shops. At the end of the day, its their R&D, concepts and final product builds coming from them.
 
I'm not sure there was any 'drama'.
Jay retired, which was planned. As far as I can tell Nick decided he didn't want to continue.
It wasn't pre-announced so some N&C customers greeted it with shock. I was surprised myself.
Within the camp I'm not sure there was anything negative going on.
 
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