Let's Talk Snare Drums

Nice snares Pete !!

Someone please tell me what a Ludwig Supraphonic Black Beauty snare is. I see them all the time on Ebay. ????


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I haven't test-played dozens of snares, but I've played several. I have a restored Ludwig Black Acrolite, which is my "best of the rest", but nothing I've tried yet holds a candle to my Sonor Delite 14x6" with die-cast hoops and super-thin shells with re-rings.

It's extremely sensitive, fantastic stick definition but loud if necessary...and the sound it makes when cross-sticking is perfect. There's not a thing I'd change with this drum. I may have gotten lucky to own a snare like this without having had to try dozens of others, but I truly feel no desire to own any other snare, at least based on sound.

There's a few snares I'd love to try and own based on appearance, though, but when it comes to drums, I'm far more motivated by sound and performance than the appearance.
 
Hollywood Jim said:
Someone please tell me what a Ludwig Supraphonic Black Beauty snare is. I see them all the time on Ebay. ????
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LB417.jpg

They're not usually referred to as "Supraphonic", but they can be ordered with the same lugs and strainers as a regular Supraphonic, so that may be why you've seen them called by that name. Black Beauty snares are made of nickel plated brass shells.
 
Some threads come back from the dead!

Some great snares I've owned:

14 x 6.5 Joyful Noise Studio Bronze Custom.

This is a sensational drum. I've never hear anything like it. Tuning range like crazy... super deep and fat when needed, tight and poppy if that's your thing - can do the 402 thing or the BB thing easily. Custom engraved by John Aldridge...1 of 1. Curt is doing it right :)

Fidock 13 x 9 FatBoy

This snare (avatar) is beautiful - versatile as anything - gives off a real Radio King vibe, easily the most tonal drum I own. 13" = responsive, and the 9" really gives it the extra tonal depth that is hard to find in a drum shallower than 6.5"... Jazz combo to Fatback studio. Responsive at a whisper or a roar.

Brady 12 x 7 Jarrah Block

A huge sound from a little drum! Mirrored black finish that matched my recording customs...added a groove wedge to counter the 12" rim limitations. Sold to buy other things :)

B/O Acrolite 14 x 5

Much as already been said about these on this forum. My favourite of the Ludwigs - a really nice middle ground between the 'drier' or more focused LM400 and the brass BB overtones - possibly because of the 8 lugs instead of the 10... Anyways, another do-anything drum. Rock, hip-hop, soul, jazz, whatever. If it doesn't sound right on this snare, it's always my fault ;) Hardware, as often noted, is a weak-point, but it's still functioning.

Premier Super Ace (1957) WMP 14 x 5.5

I really wanted a vintage wood drum, and my dad used to own a '57 BMP version of this drum (that he bought new!). Tough to find in Western Australia, but worth every dollar. This drum oozes that vintage vibe - sounds completely different to any of my modern drums. Any time I want it to sound like back in the day - this is the go-to snare :) Snare mechanism (internal rod, handle throw, dual wire tension) is absolute genius. Worth a Google for that alone!


Brady 14 x 5.5 Jarrah Ply gets an honourable mention, too. Focus, tone, attack...great stuff :)
 
drumming sort of person said:
LB417.jpg

They're not usually referred to as "Supraphonic", but they can be ordered with the same lugs and strainers as a regular Supraphonic, so that may be why you've seen them called by that name. Black Beauty snares are made of nickel plated brass shells.
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OK I get it.

If they called it a "Black Beauty with Supraphonic hardware" that would sound kind of shoddy.

And if they called it "Supraphonic with an NOB shell" that would sound kind of strange.



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Interesting , I immediately noticed the difference in tension rod quality between the '60' s drum and the newer BB, so to those who think that there is not much difference between the vintage and new stuff. Rethink.
 
D. Rumble said:
Those 60's BB's are holy grails. The current/new ones are nothing like them.
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I'll say. No holier grail than something that never existed in the first place.

The new ones are remarkably different. You can actually play one of them.

I dare say the snare you're referring to is an early 60's Super COB.

drumming sort of person said:
They're not usually referred to as "Supraphonic", but they can be ordered with the same lugs and strainers as a regular Supraphonic, so that may be why you've seen them called by that name.
Click to expand...

Although the term "Supraphonic" is more widely recognised as referring to the LM400 and LM402 COA shell, originally the term Supraphonic denoted the snare mechanism. Ludwig offered two kinds.....a Supraphonic and a Super-sensitive. If it wasn't the SS then it was the Supra. Given that the Acro used the Supraphonic mechanism yet was never called a "Supra" and subsequent inclusions of shell materials like bronze and brass are sometimes called bronze Supra's or COB Supra's.....or even Black Beauty Supras, it's the cause of so much confusion you can turn yourself inside out trying to keep up with it all. It causes more head scratching than it's worth half the time. But that's the history of the term nonetheless.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
I'll say. No holier grail than something that never existed in the first place.

The new ones are remarkably different. You can actually play one of them.

I dare say the snare you're referring to is an early 60's Super COB.



Although the term "Supraphonic" is more widely recognised as referring to the LM400 and LM402 COA shell, originally the term Supraphonic denoted the snare mechanism. Ludwig offered two kinds.....a Supraphonic and a Super-sensitive. If it wasn't the SS then it was the Supra. Given that the Acro used the Supraphonic mechanism yet was never called a "Supra" and subsequent inclusions of shell materials like bronze and brass are sometimes called bronze Supra's or COB Supra's.....or even Black Beauty Supras, it's the cause of so much confusion you can turn yourself inside out trying to keep up with it all. It causes more head scratching than it's worth half the time. But that's the history of the term nonetheless.
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Thank you for the nice information and the history lesson.

Congratulations on passing 10,000 posts in this forum.

On subject, I would say I like my Pork Pie BOB snare drum better than my Acrolite, but I still do like my Acrolite very much.
 
The bad:

Any and every chromed steel sheet metal shell. Except maybe that perforated OCDP thing; played with a guy that had one tuned up nicely.

The good:

Anything of sound, quality construction that's properly tuned and does not have a chromed steel sheet metal shell.
 
I've been playing a steel shell sound percussion snare drum at my garage band practice for the last year and a half to two years. It has not been so bad that I want to trade it out with one of my snare drums. I'm actually pretty impressed with the cheap thing. It sounds decent enough, holds a tuning well, has ten lugs per side & the strainer works fine. I've traded out all the crappy cymbals that came with the set. I have my own professional cymbals on there, but the snare is not so bad.
 
paradiddle pete said:
Incominggggggg!!!!.......
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Just a point of information,but lots of people misidentify the Super Ludwig 400,as a supraphonic.The WFL,Transition and Pre Serial number Keystone badged drums are all Super Ludwigs,that actually have a welded shell,crimped snare bed.The Supraphonic,when introduced in 63,had a spun,seemless,Ludalloy(aluminum/zinc alloy) shell.Ludwig eventually moved away from the crimped snare beds.

Those Super Ludwigs in either COB or the more rare ,lacquered brass shell,are one of the holy grails of the snare drum world,and in the condition of that one,will fetch low 4 fugures.all day long.Not to mention the legendary sound.Beautiful drum.:)

Steve B
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
I'll say. No holier grail than something that never existed in the first place.

The new ones are remarkably different. You can actually play one of them.

I dare say the snare you're referring to is an early 60's Super COB.



Although the term "Supraphonic" is more widely recognised as referring to the LM400 and LM402 COA shell, originally the term Supraphonic denoted the snare mechanism. Ludwig offered two kinds.....a Supraphonic and a Super-sensitive. If it wasn't the SS then it was the Supra. Given that the Acro used the Supraphonic mechanism yet was never called a "Supra" and subsequent inclusions of shell materials like bronze and brass are sometimes called bronze Supra's or COB Supra's.....or even Black Beauty Supras, it's the cause of so much confusion you can turn yourself inside out trying to keep up with it all. It causes more head scratching than it's worth half the time. But that's the history of the term nonetheless.
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While the strainer did differentiate the supra (P-83),from the supersensitive (then P-88,later P-70),the term Supraphonic,was due to the spun,seemless Ludalloy shell,at the time...that is.While the supra shares the same shell with the supersensitive,it also shares it with the Acrolite.There are also 8 lug supras,and 10 lug acros.....but no chrome plated acros.or anodized/painted supras.

Just like Jules says,the term supraphonic now applies to nearly all U.S.A made metal shelled drums,except the Acrolite and piccolo.This included black beautys,which are called buy Ludwig,... Supraphonic Black Beauties,AND Supersensitive Black Beautys,and lets not forget..piccolo Black Beautys.

Imported metal shelled drums....are not supraphonics,and have welded shell,not seemless and spun

And recently,there is a collector/knowledgeable drum guy on a different forum,that posted a STEEL shelled supra,B/O badge,late 60's early 70's drum.He swears It's steel,and knowing Ludwig,I believe it.

The impossible,just became possible,and just when you think you have this stuff down pat,you get proven wrong.It just goes to show,nobody knows everything,and you learn something every day,especially with drums that shouldn't exist.....but do.I know,I have a few.:):)

Steve B
 
tamadrm said:
The impossible,just became possible,and just when you think you have this stuff down pat,you get proven wrong.It just goes to show,nobody knows everything,and you learn something every day,especially with drums that shouldn't exist.....but do.I know,I have a few.:):)

Steve B
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My first thought is; Will there be a test on this later?

Thank you for the information.
Well, this settles it for me. The only important thing is, do I like the sound of the drum or not. And do I like the looks of the drum.

I guess finding that perfect sounding snare drum is quite like finding that perfect sounding guitar or violin.

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Sadly never had too much experience with Ludwig snares myself, only one I've tried over a longer period was a 14x5,5" Supraphonic Hammered Bronze, which was owned by the studio my band recorded our debut album in. Borrowed that snare for the recording, turned out excellent. My father has owned several "regular" Supras though, and his impression is that they sound great, but the hardware is not up to par with, say, newer Tama/Pearl/DW high-end snares, for example. Tension rods keeps untightening alot, even had some lugs stripping. Might be some bad batches, but either way it makes me a bit sceptical as well, if they hold up as well as other brands under "high pressure". Not trying to start a war here though, but that was his experience, and until I can say otherwise I stay with other brands of high-end snares.

The snares I've owned thus far :
14x6,5" Yamaha Steel
14x6,5" Pearl Sensitone Brass Limited Edition
14x6,5" Tama Starclassic Maple
14x5,5" Tama Rockstar Steel
14x5,5" Tama Starclassic Performer Birch
13x6" Yamaha Musashi Oak
14x5,5" Sonor Force 2003 Birch/Basswood
14x5,5" Sonor Force 3005 Maple
14x5,5" Mapex Saturn Maple/Walnut
14x7" Tama John Tempesta Brass Signature
14x5,5" Tama Starclassic Maple
14x5,5" Sonor Force 3007 Maple
13x6" Mapex Black Panther Maple
14x5,5" Tama Superstar Birch
14x6,5" Tama S.L.P. Power Maple
14x5,5" Tama S.L.P. Vintage Steel
13x6" Tama S.L.P. Sonic Steel
14x5,5" Mapex Black Panther Maple, limited Thomann edition
14x5,5" Pearl Vision VBX Steel
14x5,5" Sonor Essential Force Birch

The 3 snares I own now:
14x6" Tama Starphonic Bronze, Limited Edition (only 60 made)
14x6,5" Pearl Masters BCX Birch
14x6,5" Mapex MPX Hammered Steel (backup)

Might add another smaller maple snare, or maybe a brass down the road. Usually I sold off snares when I needed some extra money, and bought some when I had plenty of cash... Not the most economic way of thinking but hey, it's my biggest hobby after all :). And a lot of the snares I've owned before came with drumkits I bought, so there is not too many of those that I bought seperate...
 
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i own 4 at the moment. one of them will be going though...

Metal

DW 5"x14" stainless steel (1998 model)
Tama 6.5"x14" brass Artstar ES (1995ish model)

Wood

DW 5.5"x14" Eco-X Bamboo/Birch
Tama 5.5"x14" Maple (2005ish) *this one will be going in favor of a 6.5" model
 
Hollywood Jim said:
My first thought is; Will there be a test on this later?

Thank you for the information.
Well, this settles it for me. The only important thing is, do I like the sound of the drum or not. And do I like the looks of the drum.

I guess finding that perfect sounding snare drum is quite like finding that perfect sounding guitar or violin.

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LOL...even if there's a test,the answers can change on a dime.Things we thought were true and undeniable,are no longer.But that...makes life interesting...no?

As far as the Black Beauty,all that I can say is ,the drum is legendary for a reason.But if I recall,you own a Super Ludwig 400.It was your dads drum ,yes.They too are awesome drums,and sound very vintage Black Beautiyish.

If you're looking for another metal shelled drum,go bronze,or possibly copper.Much warmer than steel,with little exception.

Steve B
 
tamadrm said:
LOL...even if there's a test,the answers can change on a dime.Things we thought were true and undeniable,are no longer.But that...makes life interesting...no?

As far as the Black Beauty,all that I can say is ,the drum is legendary for a reason.But if I recall,you own a Super Ludwig 400.It was your dads drum ,yes.They too are awesome drums,and sound very vintage Black Beautiyish.

If you're looking for another metal shelled drum,go bronze,or possibly copper.Much warmer than steel,with little exception.

Steve B
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Yes, I own my Dad's drums. One, is a 1926 Ludwig Super. Last year I installed a p-86 on it.
I also have his 1968 Supraphonic.

I think I am spoiled as far as snare sound goes. I'm sure I would love the sound of a Black Beauty. But I'm not sure it would sound $700 better than the snare drums I have now.

Actually I would like to find a wood snare drum that I like the sound of.


My super:

Img_8881-vi.jpg


z5-vi.jpg



My Supra:

Img_8869-vi.jpg




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