Karaoke Version Tracks Minus Drums...

[dcrigger]

I use Moises. It has a "smart click" that follows the beat in the song, so it will drift if the song changes tempo, so at least it's still following the music.

Are we talking about for practicing? If so, why use a click at all? Why not just listen to the music?

Sometimes I think we're getting the cart before the horse. Our primary job is playing with the music - making the music work. Playing with the click is a utility function... period.

 

[Sausagetoad]

Are we talking about for practicing? If so, why use a click at all? Why not just listen to the music?

Sometimes I think we're getting the cart before the horse. Our primary job is playing with the music - making the music work. Playing with the click is a utility function... period.

It's the tail wagging the dog though. When you're playing live music with real folks (minus tracks) you're establishing the tempo & the groove. I've always found it hard to play to something that's already there sans a click, because if I speed up even a little, I'm not with it anymore.

 

[dcrigger]

It's the tail wagging the dog though. When you're playing live music with real folks (minus tracks) you're establishing the tempo & the groove. I've always found it hard to play to something that's already there sans a click, because if I speed up even a little, I'm not with it anymore.

But that's kind of the point - training our ears to be able to play "with" other players. And IMO this is just a theoretical exercise, but an essential skill.

Sure most gigs are about us laying down for others to follow. But even with that, being able to make small adjustments based on what others are playing is fundamental to making music groove. As we are playing with better and better players, those players are looking for a drummer that is solid, but at the same time doesn't ignore them either.

And in my experience, many gigs require being able to adjust and modify our time, in a sense, follow, some one else lead. I can't say how many singers and/or band leaders that know exactly where they want the tempo placed - even when or if that tempo might be different than the night before or what we usually do. Some can be "Watch me" - but others just demand listening to them.

I had opportunity to sub for Bernie Dressel on a Brian Setzer gig (back when he was doing the Orchestra thing) and the main thing Bernie told me was... "Be sure to really listen to Brian's guitar - he knows - and plays it - exactly where he wants it - so lock in with him and it will all fall into place". On most other, large big band type gigs, worrying about locking in with the guitar player wouldn't be my first thought. But this was Brian's band, he knows what he wants, and is a super solid player - more than capable of laying it down, so to speak. So that's what I did... kept my eyes on the charts, catching all the horn and arrangement stuff, but with my ears firmly locked into what Brian was playing.

In a nutshell - actual music, what we sit down and listen to.... what our audience listens to doesn't include a click. So again my advice, learn to play with music, practice playing music that's locked into a tempo - and music that floats all over the place. Learn how to stay locked with something that is varying.... popular music hasn't always been locked to a grid.... And I'm not saying we'll be going back to the past - just that tempo variances in popular music have been around for centuries - and it is only in the past 30 years that we've abandoned using them. Nothing stays the same forever. Plus there's still lots of music and lots of gigging situations that demand the ability to be fluid when necessary.

Anyway - my 2 cents...

 

[Sausagetoad]

Yeah, I played pretty much as you described most of my career, the click thing is relatively recent because bands wanna use tracks these days. Which is why it's harder for me to feel comfortable with it...it's too rigid.

 

[Winston_Wolf]

Are we talking about for practicing? If so, why use a click at all? Why not just listen to the music?

Sometimes I think we're getting the cart before the horse. Our primary job is playing with the music - making the music work. Playing with the click is a utility function... period.

I make drumless mp3s with the click because a) sometimes it helps define the beat a little more clearly but I don't feel quite as influenced by the drums on original recording and b) it helps me practice following the click because I use a click in about 95% of my live playing.

In reality I end up practicing to every permutation; the original track as-is, a drumless track, and a drumless track with a click. I find with certain songs I end up preferring one over the other, but each of the three feel different and guide me slightly differently.

 

[Sausagetoad]

One more thing about Moises...if you wanna put the click on one track & everything else on the other (pretty standard format) then sometimes you've gotta run everything through Audacity beforehand as separate tracks and convert them to mono, because if you pan them to one side in Moises, you may miss a lot of instrumentation, because the original recording is panned one way or the other.

 

[Sausagetoad]

I make drumless mp3s with the click because a) sometimes it helps define the beat a little more clearly but I don't feel quite as influenced by the drums on original recording and b) it helps me practice following the click because I use a click in about 95% of my live playing.

In reality I end up practicing to every permutation; the original track as-is, a drumless track, and a drumless track with a click. I find with certain songs I end up preferring one over the other, but each of the three feel different and guide me slightly differently.

It's easy to play along with another drummer. It's more difficult to get it going on when you're on your own.