Drum Workshop Worth The Cash?

[tubbyadam]

This is my first post to this forum and I'd like to chime in on this older than dirt thread.

I do not own DW drums. I am not somebody who believes that there is a be all and end all drum kit or manufacturer. Drums are like ice cream. There are a million and one flavors to choose from so who is to say what should be the next guy's favorite flavor.

That being said, DW drums are like vanilla or chocolate ice cream. They have become the standard for EVERYONE, period. The last several groups I've worked with have had pretty much the same audition process. They call me up, tell me their story, ask if I'd like to come down and give it a go. They always ask the rhetorical question “What kind of drums do you play…DW right?” When I tell them no, I play a Pearl Masters Studio BRX kit it’s like saying, “Welcome to the TasteeFreeze Ice Cream Shop, we don’t have Vanilla or Chocolate.” Even if they didn’t want vanilla or chocolate, somehow they get let down. The standard isn’t always set by us drummers. DW drums have become so synonymous with quality, beauty, and tone that it has spilled over to every other musician’s lexicon.

Whether you like it or not, having DW drums looks good on your resume.

 

[Deathmetalconga]

If you're going to lay down that kind of cash for a drum set, go with something that will give you a really distinctive sound - that's what I did.

DWs are great mass-market drums, but they are plywood, just like every CB700. There are many, many other materials that look just as well and sound just as good. But everyone is hung up on plywood drums - have been for 150 years. Before then, drums were carved by hand, steam-bent from a board or made of staves.

Some examples: Solid shell, stave, fiberglass, carbon fiber, composites, metals, etc. etc.

 

[Fat Elvis]

If you're going to lay down that kind of cash for a drum set, go with something that will give you a really distinctive sound - that's what I did.

DWs are great mass-market drums, but they are plywood, just like every CB700. There are many, many other materials that look just as well and sound just as good. But everyone is hung up on plywood drums - have been for 150 years. Before then, drums were carved by hand, steam-bent from a board or made of staves.

Some examples: Solid shell, stave, fiberglass, carbon fiber, composites, metals, etc. etc.

comparing a DW to a CB700 is just a SLIGHT stretch..... come on. Give me a break. That's like me comparring a dualist to a tupperware bowl.... they're both plastic, aren't they?

 

[Deathmetalconga]

comparing a DW to a CB700 is just a SLIGHT stretch..... come on. Give me a break. That's like me comparring a dualist to a tupperware bowl.... they're both plastic, aren't they?

I don't know about that analogy, as they're made of different types of plastic and designed with completely different intentions. I would say DW is more like Lexus, CB700 more like Hyundai.

DWs and CB700s are both made out of wood shaved into plies and held together with mystery glue, which drummers and manufacturers try to not think about or mention. Ads that say "100 percent maple shalls" are misleading. The shells aren't 100 percent maple because the glue forms a substantial chunk of their mass. They're really 100 percent maple composite shells, but that's another story.

The only difference between the DW and the CB700 shell is the quality of wood, the quality of the mystery glue, the choice of finishes and how much care goes into forming the plies into shells. The DW also has better-quality hardware and heads and a lot of marketing behind it. But on the whole, they have more in common than they have in difference.

Someone here not too long back had an Emperor's Clothes type post at http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24765. They said they really couldn't notice a whole lot of difference between different manufacturers. That's because they all make their drums they same way, only varying the materials and hardware slightly.

If you make drums like everyone does, they will sound like everyone else.

 

[Fat Elvis]

I don't know about that analogy, as they're made of different types of plastic and designed with completely different intentions. I would say DW is more like Lexus, CB700 more like Hyundai.

DWs and CB700s are both made out of wood shaved into plies and held together with mystery glue, which drummers and manufacturers try to not think about or mention. Ads that say "100 percent maple shalls" are misleading. The shells aren't 100 percent maple because the glue forms a substantial chunk of their mass. They're really 100 percent maple composite shells, but that's another story.

The only difference between the DW and the CB700 shell is the quality of wood, the quality of the mystery glue, the choice of finishes and how much care goes into forming the plies into shells. The DW also has better-quality hardware and heads and a lot of marketing behind it. But on the whole, they have more in common than they have in difference.

Someone here not too long back had an Emperor's Clothes type post. They said they really couldn't notice a whole lot of difference between different manufacturers. That's because they all make their drums they same way, only varying the materials and hardware slightly.

If you make drums like everyone does, they will sound like everyone else.

basically, to that analogy, all houses are made essentially the same as well. However I think people care a LOT who built it, the materials and the finish -- I doubt anyone would compare a mansion to a shack, even though they have a similar process and use the same types of materials.

The fact of the matter is that you carry this bias because you have an adgenda for solid and stave shells, even though this thread is about DW. I have a starclassic and a DW -- and i can CERTAINLY tell the difference in sound. So, just because one person said they cant tell the difference between ply shells, that should not go for everyone.

Im sure even a non-drummer could tell the difference in sound between a CB700 and a DW. The whole argument is rediculous. OBVIOUSLY you prefer solid and stave shells -- you have said this countless times... it gets old.

 

[Deathmetalconga]

Im sure even a non-drummer could tell the difference in sound between a CB700 and a DW. The whole argument is rediculous. OBVIOUSLY you prefer solid and stave shells -- you have said this countless times... it gets old.

The original poster asked us if we thought DWs were worth the money and I said "If you're going to spend that much money, get something other than plywood."

That's fully in keeping with the topic of the thread and what the starter of the thread asked. Yes, I have by biases and they appear from time to time on different threads about different topics, like just now. I may again offend people by discussing plywood, non-plywood, etc.. You are free to consider getting used to it.

 

[Mendozart]

I enjoy expensive toys. But, I buy them used. I own a BMW, which I never thought I would, but I work on it myself and save lots of money that way. The previous owner took very good care of it and I picked it up for 1/4 of what he paid for it. Same goes for my DW's. I found a set that the previous owner took very good care of and also paid about 1/3rd of what he paid for it. So, they are definitely worth the money to me.
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25352

 

[hateplow]

The rumors are true....DW kits are definately worth the money.
Don't let the haters tell you any differently.
The resale value of DWs are incredible. The attention to detail for such a "mass produced" kit is also amazing. Sure, there are kits that are as good, but they will cost you a lot as well.

 

[dw D]

Worth every penny.
...........................

 

[Jusstickinaround]

As far as your tuning statement, I have been playing DWs for five years, and have found the tuning range on DW drums just fine thank you! I have mine tuned in a nice middle of the ground area and they sound great! This statement is a rumor started by some DW hater! It was the same guy who started the rumor that went like this..."The only good heads for a Yamaha Recording series drum set are Remo Pinstripes." Is it true? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

And Ludwig has has bought off a number of top players especially in the country market! So don't make DW sound like they are pure evil and nobody else gives gear away!

Hey, here's a thought:

Don't ever play DW even if they offer you free stuff. This shouldn't be a problem since you think that they suck so much!

"And I know this guy who owns this drum shop......"

this argument sounds like one of those "I know a guy who knows a few people who know this other person" third grade rants! If you like what you play, then go play them but don't try to argue with me that DW is overrated because your drums don't get the respect that DWs are getting!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

I really think a lot of you DW owners are just trying to justify spending so much money. As far as my kit not getting the respect of DW's, well Gretsch has been around a lot longer and I think they get there share of respect. Think about it, how could a DW kit made of maple sound different than the Pacific kits they make with the same wood? Why, because one is American made and the other in Mexico? American hands can make maple sound better than Mexican hands, maybe some of the detail is superior but it's basically the same drum. I've played some Pacific and DW's and neither blew me away, not anymore than my Gretsch kit or the Pearl kit sitting next to it. Making drums is not rocket science and I think you're only paying for the right to say you own DW's because you think they get the most respect from people. They do get good resale, and I've noticed a lot on ebay, wonder why? Think about that for awhile.

 

[Skitch]

I really think a lot of you DW owners are just trying to justify spending so much money. As far as my kit not getting the respect of DW's, well Gretsch has been around a lot longer and I think they get there share of respect. Think about it, how could a DW kit made of maple sound different than the Pacific kits they make with the same wood? Why, because one is American made and the other in Mexico? American hands can make maple sound better than Mexican hands, maybe some of the detail is superior but it's basically the same drum. I've played some Pacific and DW's and neither blew me away, not anymore than my Gretsch kit or the Pearl kit sitting next to it. Making drums is not rocket science and I think you're only paying for the right to say you own DW's because you think they get the most respect from people. They do get good resale, and I've noticed a lot on ebay, wonder why? Think about that for awhile.

So by this rationale, your Gretsch drums aren't any better than the Pacific drums! There probably aren't many Gretsch kits for sale on Ebay because nobody is buying them new! Everyone wants the old Gretsch drums - vintage, baby!

And here's a neat little story about a buddy of mine who used to play for Reba Mcintyre. When he was starting out on the gig with Reba, he kept trying and kept trying to get in touch with Freg Gretsch to no avail! Finally, he got a an endorsement deal with Tama. About three months later, Reba was the opening act for Alabama. Fred Grestch and his wife were at the show. He walked up to my, friend Steve Short after he saw that Steve was playing Tama and asked," Why aren't you playing Gretsch?" Apparently, that great Gretsch sound was a an answering machine. Great customer service, Fred!! You guys need me to reload that gun and help me aim it at your other foot?

Now, here is my experience with DW. In 2001, I DROVE to Los Angeles, California. One day, I decided that I would head up to Oxnard to the DW plant. I asked for a tour of the plant and everyone bent over backwards to make certain that I got to see the place. My tour guide was a guy by the name of Steve Smith (not the Journey drummer!). They did this after hearing that I had come a distance and the office was understaffed as many were at PASIC at that time! I watched a guy build a drum! I saw the area with the shelves of raw drum shells waiting to be palced into an order after Timbre matching (by the way apparently Gretsch only cares to put a white drum with another white drum - IF they answer when you call).

I guess if you want a Keller shell drum, go to Gretsch or anyone else who buys their shell from a furniture manufacturer! What's the difference - the lug design?

Honestly, I don't dislike Gretsch at all - I think they make a fine drum. But top of the line Gretsch drums are just as expensive and sound no better than my DW set. So your argument holds no water!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

 

[Fat Elvis]

So by this rationale, your Gretsch drums aren't any better than the Pacific drums! There probably aren't many Gretsch kits for sale on Ebay because nobody is buying them new! Everyone wants the old Gretsch drums - vintage, baby!

And here's a neat little story about a buddy of mine who used to play for Reba Mcintyre. When he was starting out on the gig with Reba, he kept trying and kept trying to get in touch with Freg Gretsch to no avail! Finally, he got a an endorsement deal with Tama. About three months later, Reba was the opening act for Alabama. Fred Grestch and his wife were at the show. He walked up to my, friend Steve Short after he saw that Steve was playing Tama and asked," Why aren't you playing Gretsch?" Apparently, that great Gretsch sound was a an answering machine. Great customer service, Fred!! You guys need me to reload that gun and help me aim it at your other foot?

Now, here is my experience with DW. In 2001, I DROVE to Los Angeles, California. One day, I decided that I would head up to Oxnard to the DW plant. I asked for a tour of the plant and everyone bent over backwards to make certain that I got to see the place. My tour guide was a guy by the name of Steve Smith (not the Journey drummer!). They did this after hearing that I had come a distance and the office was understaffed as many were at PASIC at that time! I watched a guy build a drum! I saw the area with the shelves of raw drum shells waiting to be palced into an order after Timbre matching (by the way apparently Gretsch only cares to put a white drum with another white drum - IF they answer when you call).

I guess if you want a Keller shell drum, go to Gretsch or anyone else who buys their shell from a furniture manufacturer! What's the difference - the lug design?

Honestly, I don't dislike Gretsch at all - I think they make a fine drum. But top of the line Gretsch drums are just as expensive and sound no better than my DW set. So your argument holds no water!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

well put, mike. Excellent points.

 

[Legacyrik]

I have played identical size 24x18 bass drums, both Mapex Orion, and DW. With tunings basically the same, the DW sounded far better than the Orion. The tone was more full, had a deeper boom that really filled the room with the nice attack sound at the batter head. The Mapex just didn't have the same low thump that fills your ears. I don't know what it is exactly, but DW drums IMO, sound better than Orions if tuned to their full potential. Single ply batter heads really bring out the resonance and the rich tone in the DW bass drums. However, on the other hand I do think that you pay quite a bit for the name. In DW's defense, they had to get their fabulous reputation somewhere, right? They had to build that name that people now pay extra for. I'm not sure though if it's worth $1,000 extra.
QUOTE]


If used to it's full potential... PULEASE.

First off the the DW has reinforcement rings and the orion doesn't so they are going to sound different, guess it's just a preference thing.

You are definately paying to some extent for the name... But if that's not a problem then hey good for you.

 

[Legacyrik]

I play dw drums and I am getting a second dw kit in just a month from now. Lots of people don't take into consideration that DW is not mass manufactured. Mass manufactured drums will of course cost less. Going with a custom drum company like dw, which has an outstanding reputation, means you won't have to worry whether your drums will sound as good as they should for the money you spend. DW has extras you won't get with a mass manufactured kit, pitch matched shells, chrome, gold, satin, or black lugs, mini lugs or standard lugs, custom sizes, attention to detail, more finishes, and reinforcement rings.

Is DW worth the cash?

No, if all you are looking for is a kit in standard sizes with a standard finish.
Yes, if you are looking for a kit with more bling appeal, custom sizes, more choices for finishes, and a superior sound.

I'll buy that.
20202020202

 

[larlev]

I like the "Harley vs. Metric" analogy the best....When you buy DW it is in some ways a "status" thing.....but that's OK, there is nothing wrong with that at all...if you can afford them..buy them

You guys that own DW's don't need to justify anything to me or anyone else.....most people are just jealous anyway really......I guarantee that the folks bagging on DW would play one happily if they were given one free.....LOL

 

[Deathmetalconga]

I Think about it, how could a DW kit made of maple sound different than the Pacific kits they make with the same wood? Why, because one is American made and the other in Mexico? American hands can make maple sound better than Mexican hands, maybe some of the detail is superior but it's basically the same drum.

This is a good point. A lot of what drives up the cost of high-end drums is that they're made in the U.S., or another first-world country. Sure, you can get more drums for less money, but how do they cut corners? In many cases, the flip side of "More drums, less money" is "Lower wages, more damage." When you buy DW or another high-priced American/first world set, some of your money is going to comply with environmental regulations, safety rules, health insurance and retirement plans for the employees.

For some of us, it matters where and how the instrument was made. If it was manufactured (not merely handled) in a first-world country (US, Western Europe, Japan, Australia, Taiwan etc.), you can be sure it was made under regulations to protect both the workers and the environment. That is one more thing that adds to the cost of the product.

 

[Ozzy Biz]

Ultimately, isn't it just personal preference? Sure, you can save a few dollars buy buying a Mapex Orion instead, but if it's a DW that you're after, you won't be entirely happy until you have a DW. It's all relative. To the Yamaha enthusiast, a DW is a drum kit that's high quality but comes with a price tag for the brand name & reputation. But if you happen to be that person that falls in love with and purchases a DW kit at retail price, can you be blamed for believing that it is worth the money? Sure, you could have bought a kit of equal quality that sounds slightly different for less money, but unless you are happy with the product it's not worth the money.

For example, take Deathmetalconga's kit. Ok, it's rare, it sounds amazing, it's made in an environmentally friendly manner and comes with a great reputation. But it's only going to be worth the $5k US (or whatever it costs) if you feel that it's worth it. To someone who purely desires a nice-sounding kit regardless of brand, shell material or type, it may not be worth the extra cash to get a solid shelled ironwood kit. But to an obvious enthusiast (like DMC), it is worth every penny, and then some.

I think to try and judge the value of the DW brand in regard to the price of their product based on the opinions of those who don't own or haven't owned the product is completely irrelevant; because you are talking about something that you don't have the necessary information about to make an un-bias decision that can be taken into account by the member s of this forum. It's the same as me deciding that a Porsche 911 is just as good a car as a Subraru Sti, even though I've never owned either cars.

Now, I don't care if you feel that a DW kit relates to a Porsche or a Kia, the outcome is the same. A DW is a high-end kit that comes with a high-end price tag. If you can't afford a ferrari, don't go to a ferrari dealer and comment on their cars. If you can't afford a DW, the same applies. I'm sick of hearing comments about this topic; because they're all completely bias. If I made a political comment about the war in Iraq, any above average IQ bearing person would dismiss it as I have the political intelligence of a Doberman. The same digression should be common policy among drummerworld members, especially in regard to posts and threads like this.

If you own a DW and honestly believe that it was money well spent, then it was money well spent. If you own a Yamaha Maple Custom and have never owned a DW but feel that they aren't worth the their cost, your opinion is irrelevant. The posts in this thread that have the possibility of actually addressing the topic in a manner which is plausible come only from those who have or once did own a DW kit. The rest are as useful as tits on a bull.

 

[Deathmetalconga]

Ultimately, isn't it just personal preference? Sure, you can save a few dollars buy buying a Mapex Orion instead, but if it's a DW that you're after, you won't be entirely happy until you have a DW. It's all relative. To the Yamaha enthusiast, a DW is a drum kit that's high quality but comes with a price tag for the brand name & reputation. But if you happen to be that person that falls in love with and purchases a DW kit at retail price, can you be blamed for believing that it is worth the money? Sure, you could have bought a kit of equal quality that sounds slightly different for less money, but unless you are happy with the product it's not worth the money.

For example, take Deathmetalconga's kit. Ok, it's rare, it sounds amazing, it's made in an environmentally friendly manner and comes with a great reputation. But it's only going to be worth the $5k US (or whatever it costs) if you feel that it's worth it. To someone who purely desires a nice-sounding kit regardless of brand, shell material or type, it may not be worth the extra cash to get a solid shelled ironwood kit. But to an obvious enthusiast (like DMC), it is worth every penny, and then some.

I think to try and judge the value of the DW brand in regard to the price of their product based on the opinions of those who don't own or haven't owned the product is completely irrelevant; because you are talking about something that you don't have the necessary information about to make an un-bias decision that can be taken into account by the member s of this forum. It's the same as me deciding that a Porsche 911 is just as good a car as a Subraru Sti, even though I've never owned either cars.

Now, I don't care if you feel that a DW kit relates to a Porsche or a Kia, the outcome is the same. A DW is a high-end kit that comes with a high-end price tag. If you can't afford a ferrari, don't go to a ferrari dealer and comment on their cars. If you can't afford a DW, the same applies. I'm sick of hearing comments about this topic; because they're all completely bias. If I made a political comment about the war in Iraq, any above average IQ bearing person would dismiss it as I have the political intelligence of a Doberman. The same digression should be common policy among drummerworld members, especially in regard to posts and threads like this.

If you own a DW and honestly believe that it was money well spent, then it was money well spent. If you own a Yamaha Maple Custom and have never owned a DW but feel that they aren't worth the their cost, your opinion is irrelevant. The posts in this thread that have the possibility of actually addressing the topic in a manner which is plausible come only from those who have or once did own a DW kit. The rest are as useful as tits on a bull.

Very valid points. If you really want something and only one manufacturer offers it, there is only one thing you can do - buy their product. It could be the sound, construction, exclusivity, choice of finishes, hardware, mystique, reputation or who endorses it. All these factors and more motivate buying decisions and irrational, subjective factors are just as important as rational, objective factors.

Sure, a Timex keeps time just as well as Rolex, but some people want a Rolex for more than just keeping time.

 

[illustrator X]

DWs and CB700s are both made out of wood shaved into plies and held together with mystery glue, which drummers and manufacturers try to not think about or mention. Ads


Woa! wait a sec. You can't compare drums and say they are plywood and basically the same thing. A drum is a percision crafted music instrument. Like a comparing a crap violin to a stratavarius hand made masterpiece. Percision cut earing edges, shell molding technology, scarf joint techniques, the quaility of hand selected wood, the proper aging of wood, manufacturing in low humitiy/proper tempature...the list goes on and on.
If you play metal, and put thick pinstipes on your drums then yea you might as well pound on a fiberglass shell or a miked carboard box. But we are talking about a thin maple shell, it isn't the choice for all styles of music......but you can't compare hi-end kits to a cb700 plywood drum that is hardly qualifies as a musical instrument.

 

[Deathmetalconga]

DWs and CB700s are both made out of wood shaved into plies and held together with mystery glue, which drummers and manufacturers try to not think about or mention. Ads


Woa! wait a sec. You can't compare drums and say they are plywood and basically the same thing. A drum is a percision crafted music instrument. Like a comparing a crap violin to a stratavarius hand made masterpiece. Percision cut earing edges, shell molding technology, scarf joint techniques, the quaility of hand selected wood, the proper aging of wood, manufacturing in low humitiy/proper tempature...the list goes on and on.
If you play metal, and put thick pinstipes on your drums then yea you might as well pound on a fiberglass shell or a miked carboard box. But we are talking about a thin maple shell, it isn't the choice for all styles of music......but you can't compare hi-end kits to a cb700 plywood drum that is hardly qualifies as a musical instrument.

You left out the part of my post that said, "The only difference between the DW and the CB700 shell is the quality of wood, the quality of the mystery glue, the choice of finishes and how much care goes into forming the plies into shells. The DW also has better-quality hardware and heads and a lot of marketing behind it. But on the whole, they have more in common than they have in difference."

They are still plies of wood held together with mystery glue. One just uses better materials, manufacturing techniques, scarf joints, hand-selected wood, better aged wood, controlled humidity ... the list goes on and on, as you say. 95 percent of all Western trap kit drums are plywood - some of great quality and some of bad quality.

To stay on topic, my suggestion to the thread originator is that if someone is going to consider dropping a lot of money on a DW set, they should expand their view to non-plywood drums, which can be pretty expensive and offer unusual sounds and features.