Double-Ply Head Update: Now I've Gone and Done It

[Larry]

Sort of related so I'll post. I've been a single ply clear user for oh about the last 17 years.

Recently, I'm trying 2 ply heads. I tried Evans clear G2's and Remo clear pinstripes.

I tried the Pins first and really dug them. Then I tried the clear G2's and I really dug them too.

I settled on the Pins because they sounded much more alive than the G2's on my recordings.

From my seat, I dug them both. My recorder clearly preferred the Pins. That's my ear in the audience and what I decide by.

I was surprised at how muddy the G2's sounded on the recording. The attack sounded like mud to me. I kind of preferred the G2's from my seat, by a nose, but I hated the way they sounded on my recorder. Which surprised me. The Pins sound better to me on the recorder than even my longtime squeeze, the single ply clears, which I still use on my high 12" tom. For now.

 

[C.M. Jones]

Perfect. Then you are a well educated drummer. (I was just making sure you knew about the sound of drums in a live setting.)
And it is amazing how different venues can change the sound of drums.

I would be interested in finding out how your new drum heads sound in your live band setting.

.

Yeah, I'll update the thread as appropriate. Live playing looks to be curbed for a time. Who knows when we'll be up and running again.

 

[C.M. Jones]

That's my ear in the audience and what I decide by.

I can't imagine deciding any other way. We play for the human ear. If a given frequency or feature is beyond the grasp of the human ear, especially a trained human ear, there's no reason to worry about it. When it comes to sound, it doesn't truly happen unless someone hears it. Frequency is mathematical; sound is uniquely human.

I'm not sure why I've never tried Evans. I guess I've just always been pleased with Remo. It would be very strange to look down from the throne and not see the Remo logo.

 

[MrInsanePolack]

Frequency is mathematical; sound is uniquely human.

Machines can detect and pick up sounds that humans can't hear. So can my 5 dogs. And my wife's cockatiel disagrees also. He loves to sing and listen to music.

You do realize that celestial objects make sound as they pass through the vacuum of space right? Yep, sound in a vacuum. Check it out:

| EarthSky

NASA Space Sounds: what happens when spacecraft are used to record radio emissions from planetary environments, which are then converted to sound waves. Learn more in this video of your ears.

earthsky.org

 

[Larry]

(Eating virtual popcorn)

 

[C.M. Jones]

Machines can detect and pick up sounds that humans can't hear. So can my 5 dogs. And my wife's cockatiel disagrees also. He loves to sing and listen to music.

You do realize that celestial objects make sound as they pass through the vacuum of space right? Yep, sound in a vacuum. Check it out:

| EarthSky

NASA Space Sounds: what happens when spacecraft are used to record radio emissions from planetary environments, which are then converted to sound waves. Learn more in this video of your ears.

earthsky.org

Please believe me when I state, hoping to receive your genuine mercy, that I understand, and do not dispute, the scientific snippets you've cited. I was referring, more concentratedly, to the way a human listener, namely in response to music, perceives and synthesizes sound. The experience is singular to each of us, as hearing and listening are two different conditions. Thus, when Larry appoints his ear as the ultimate measure of the quality of his recordings, he is engaging in a uniquely mortal assessment.

I meant nothing more. Tuning is a topic I now address only in complete solitude.

 

[TK-421]

If you ever tire of the dark side but don't want to go all the way back to coated Ambassadors, then coated Emperors are kind of a best of both worlds. They're way more open than ebony pinstripes, but less so than Ambassadors. And they do provide a little extra depth and punch compared to Ambassadors. Unless you've fully converted to the dark side, you may want to check those out next time.

 

[MrInsanePolack]

I was referring, more concentratedly, to the way a human listener, namely in response to music, perceives and synthesizes sound. The experience is singular to each of us, as hearing and listening are two different conditions.

Okay. If I go back and reread what I quoted applying this to it that's fine. That's just not how I initially interpreted the statement. It read like "only humans can hear", not "we interpret what we hear differently". Just like I just did with reading words on a screen.

Tuning is a topic I now address only in complete solitude.

Haha go start a Click or No Click thread and see what happens. Different topic, same results.

 

[C.M. Jones]

If you ever tire of the dark side but don't want to go all the way back to coated Ambassadors, then coated Emperors are kind of a best of both worlds. They're way more open than ebony pinstripes, but less so than Ambassadors. And they do provide a little extra depth and punch compared to Ambassadors. Unless you've fully converted to the dark side, you may want to check those out next time.

I almost pulled the trigger on Emperors. I just decided to race to the extreme end of the spectrum. As of now, the Dark Side seems addictively empowering, but we'll see what happens.

 

[C.M. Jones]

Okay. If I go back and reread what I quoted applying this to it that's fine. That's just not how I initially interpreted the statement. It read like "only humans can hear", not "we interpret what we hear differently". Just like I just did with reading words on a screen.




Haha go start a Click or No Click thread and see what happens. Different topic, same results.

I've got thick skin in discussion. I don't take thoughts on drumming, theory, and so on personally. Music, though, is an emotional topic for a lot of people. I respect that. Better to stay on good terms than go off the deep end.

 

[Winston_Wolf]

I think it's super important to try different kinds of heads, and I see no better way to do it than heading to the opposite end of the spectrum from what you're most familiar. The best way to understand how all the variables actually work on your drums (in other words, the only way that really matters) is to try out different things.

My own attempts at trying a lot of different heads has been really helpful whenever I want to try something new now. I've found a lot of heads that I expected to do one thing and actually were quite different.

 

[C.M. Jones]

I think it's super important to try different kinds of heads, and I see no better way to do it than heading to the opposite end of the spectrum from what you're most familiar. The best way to understand how all the variables actually work on your drums (in other words, the only way that really matters) is to try out different things.

My own attempts at trying a lot of different heads has been really helpful whenever I want to try something new now. I've found a lot of heads that I expected to do one thing and actually were quite different.

It's really unbelievable that I'd waited so many years to experiment with double-plies. My first drum teacher, back in the 1980s, was a stickler for traditional techniques and methodologies. Equipment was no exception, and he held a severe bias against double-ply heads, arguing that they lacked musicality and what not. That prejudice, combined with the fact that Ambassadors worked just fine for me, led me to complete all my live and studio work with single-ply heads. It's hard to go wrong with Ambassadors, as they meet a wide variety of needs across all genres, but I'm really liking the Ebony Pins more right now. Maybe it's just the novelty of the switch, but I could be in the process of a long-term change.

 

[Winston_Wolf]

It's really unbelievable that I'd waited so many years to experiment with double-plies. My first drum teacher, back in the 1980s, was a stickler for traditional techniques and methodologies. Equipment was no exception, and he held a severe bias against double-ply heads, arguing that they lacked musicality and what not. That prejudice, combined with the fact that Ambassadors worked just fine for me, led me to complete all my live and studio work with single-ply heads. It's hard to go wrong with Ambassadors, as they meet a wide variety of needs across all genres, but I'm really liking the Ebony Pins more right now. Maybe it's just the novelty of the switch, but I could be in the process of a long-term change.

It's kinda crazy, isn't it?!? I think what we take in during our formative years can be tough to let go of. I look back at a lot of what I learned and while some of it gave me a good foundation a lot of it was either based on a similar bias like your teacher, or just flat out "drum witchcraft" that has no basis in reality.

 

[dboomer]

You do realize that celestial objects make sound as they pass through the vacuum of space right? Yep, sound in a vacuum.

I guess you missed reading the first paragraph. They make electro-magnetic waves and electro-magnetic waves are not sound. So they have been artificially converted to modulate something that produces sound.

 

[MrInsanePolack]

I guess you missed reading the first paragraph. They make electro-magnetic waves and electro-magnetic waves are not sound. So they have been artificially converted to modulate something that produces sound.

Just like a speaker. Or a guitar pickup. I see no difference.

 

[C.M. Jones]

I guess you missed reading the first paragraph. They make electro-magnetic waves and electro-magnetic waves are not sound. So they have been artificially converted to modulate something that produces sound.

I was fortunate enough to avoid the piece entirely. I replied to the charge without further investigation.

 

[dboomer]

Just like a speaker. Or a guitar pickup. I see no difference.

You need to familiarize yourself with “transducers”. There is a big difference

 

[MrInsanePolack]

You need to familiarize yourself with “transducers”. There is a big difference

Here ya go, the sun makes sound also.

You can argue with NASA. We just talked about it in college.

Sounds of the Sun - NASA

Data from ESA (European Space Agency) and NASA’s Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) has captured the dynamic movement of the Sun’s atmosphere for over

www.nasa.gov

 

[dboomer]

No arguement with NASA.

Again, looks like you only read the headline and not the article. Your claim was “sound in a vaccuum”. Sound wave need a medium and do not form in a vaccuum. The sun article says sound inside the sun. The article goes on further to explain how he generated the sound based on motion.

 

[C.M. Jones]

The exchange between MrInsanePolack and dboomer with regard to soundwaves and vacuums raises a question I'm eager to explore: What would produce a truer quality of "pitch" -- my snare drum or my vacuum cleaner? I predict my vacuum cleaner. I'm off to investigate.

Hey, I'm not trying to reopen that drum-tuning can of worms. Just lightening things up a bit.