Bringing in a session drummer

eclipseownzu

eclipseownzu

Gold Member
Hey all, got a question that I hope will spark a little debate.

The guitarist in my band does some engineering work at a local studio on the side. The other night I was there hanging out while he was tracking some drums for a local band and, to make a long story short, the guy he was recording was a session drummer. I guess the band was talked into using the "house" drummer for the recording and the actual drummer in the band was pissed.

My question is, how would you guys react to your band bringing in a session drummer to record your bands demo?
 
If I were a seasoned member of the band that recorded me previously? I would be pissed, then question my abilities as a drummer since I was replaced in the studio.

If I am the touring drummer for a solo artist? Meh, at least I have half the gig.
 
I have "ghost drummed" on number of records ....hired by producers or the label themselves.
tracked while the drummer was in the studio .....very awkward indeed.....but for the most part the drummers were cool and would even help me sort of....I dunno....sound like them i guess
but I was honored to be trusted to get the job done in a professional and timely fashion


I was the ghost drummer on a record for a band called Agents Of Man for their record Count Your Blessings on Century Media records and the producer kept telling me "more caveman more caveman....he would never play that"
so I had to kinda keep dumbing it down...... it was odd because the drummer who was sort of a friend was there......but the record came out good.

another was a band called Bedlight For BlueEyes....I played on two of their albums hired by Trustkill records ......The Dawn and Life on Lifes Terms......the drummer was there for both

the only draw back for me was not getting album credits on a few I have tracked
but I understood

Trustkill Records made me sign something saying I would not say that I recorded the drums or seek any additional compensation upon the albums release

neither band is together anymore so I guess it's ok to let the cat out of the bag

:)
 
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Session players were prevalent back on the day ('60s, '70s even '80s) when many band's drummers and other players weren't up to snuff to make radio-ready recordings.

Today, it's hard to imagine that a drummer good enough to be "in the band" isn't also good enough to play on the recordings. An exceptions would be a style way out of that drummer's range, in which case the drummer really should get upset.

Also, it's odd that a house drummer would be brought in for the demo... do I assume the regular drummer does the actual album track? Sounds backwards to me.

Bermuda
 
bermuda said:
Session players were prevalent back on the day ('60s, '70s even '80s) when many band's drummers and other players weren't up to snuff to make radio-ready recordings.

Today, it's hard to imagine that a drummer good enough to be "in the band" isn't also good enough to play on the recordings. An exceptions would be a style way out of that drummer's range, in which case the drummer really should get upset.

Also, it's odd that a house drummer would be brought in for the demo... do I assume the regular drummer does the actual album track? Sounds backwards to me.

Bermuda
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in my cases ...I was called in by the label or the producer after I assume they attempted tracking some of the album.

for one of them the producer told the band you have three choices.....I call a drummer in, I program the drums, or I go home .

I felt bad for the drummer....I heard some of the demos while learning the tunes on the spot and didn't think he was bad at all

apparently he was struggling with the click
 
Anthony Amodeo said:
in my cases ...I was called in by the label or the producer after I assume they attempted tracking some of the album.

for one of them the producer told the band you have three choices.....I call a drummer in, I program the drums, or I go home .

I felt bad for the drummer....I heard some of the demos while learning the tunes on the spot and didn't think he was bad at all

apparently he was struggling with the click
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I bet struggling with the click is why a house drummer is brought in, more often than not. The producer is probably just saving time as much as anything.

As far as my feelings, if I was the one being replaced? I'd be pretty damned upset, but at myself, for being ill-prepared. Hopefully these folks who were replaced used it as a kick in the pants to improve.
 
I would not allow it..and believe me..I would have my legal ducks in a row.

Further, I would never record for a project without consent of the project owner(s)...confirmed by my lawyer.

Beyond that, as a concientious professional, I would refuse to record if the person who is a stake holder in the project(but possibly poorly legally positioned) is not expressly requesting as well.

Being professional is not just for people who make a living at it...in fact making a living at it usually requires a bit of moral flexibility...hence I make my $ elsewhere.
 
Otto said:
..and believe me..I would have my legal ducks in a row.

: )
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meaning what......if the producer or label called for another drummer you would have legal protection against it?

so then the producer walks off the project and the label possibly drops the act as a result for not living up to contractual obligations

then your legal ducks and pride just pretty much just all but ended the project
 
I had a situation where the lead writer/guitarist/vocalist in a band I'm in recorded a new single without telling me (we tracked a 4-song demo a few months before). He had the guy who runs the studio do the drums for some reason. No big deal at the time since we hadn't even gigged together yet but it kinda miffed me, so I told him politely that I'd like to record on any more stuff that we did. Never became an issue.

If I am in the studio I expect to be the one playing the drums since I thought of the parts and I can certainly play them. Can't see why that wouldn't be the case in today's age.
 
Yes I would.

Intellectual property is no different than physical property.

Not letting someone do work on my car without consent...not letting someone do work on my music without my consent...not getting involved in music without a consensus style legally enforceable decision making process.

Just look around at the stealing, lies and misrepresentation going on in the business....seems a basic idea.

There are enough musician victims of theft to fill volumes...brilliant people unable to make a living off of what they made...don't make yourself another one of their ranks.

(by the way...the producer would be working for the label - and the project would be the label)
 
Otto said:
Yes I would.

Intellectual property is no different than physical property.

Not letting someone do work on my car without consent...not letting someone do work on my music without my consent...not getting involved in music without a consensus style legally enforceable decision making process.

Just look around at the stealing, lies and misrepresentation going on in the business....seems a basic idea.

There are enough musician victims of theft to fill volumes...brilliant people unable to make a living off of what they made...don't make yourself another one of their ranks.
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like I said .... sometimes it's unfortunately not up to you it's up to the guy flipping the bill

if that guy is not you.....and the guy paying wants a different drummer on the record....there will be another drummer on the record

just the nature of the business unfortunately
 
I suggest all musicians refuse standard contracting and form their own corp. around their projects.

Further, refuse to join in on a project without clear independent legal counsel/contracting re: ownership and control.

Make your decisions before you expend your energy.

Other approaches are not serving your own interests.
 
Otto said:
I suggest all musicians refuse standard contracting and form their own corp. around their projects.

Further, refuse to join in on a project without clear independent legal counsel re: ownership and control.

Make your decisions before you expend your energy.
Click to expand...

in a perfect world I could not agree more

but then again I have done quite a bit of work "ghost" tracking for drummers.

it's been a few years but can't say I wouldn't do it again if the price was right
 
Anthony Amodeo said:
what does "the project would be the label" mean?
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hope my previous post clarifies.

I would NOT be contracting to an existing label...the project itself would be the main company(i.e. label)...not as expensive as it seems.

The producer would be working for the project.

any independent funds coming to the project would be contracted through that company...and control would be in the hands of that company...

Basically, never sell yourself as a puppet to someone else via "standard" contracting.

but, of course, there are enough people selling themselves and the control of their careers...so such a situation would rarely garner external investment...hence the music industry is a highly predatory one...and not worth working with...and undergoing change now as we speak as it has squeezed the quality right out of itself.
 
Otto said:
hope my previous post clarifies.

I would NOT be contracting to an existing label...the project itself would be the main company(i.e. label)...not as expensive as it seems.

The producer would be working for the project.

any independent funds coming to the project would be contracted through that company...and control would be in the hands of that company...

Basically, never sell yourself as a puppet to someone else via "standard" contracting.

but, of course, there are enough people selling themselves and the control of their careers...so such a situation would rarely garner external investment...hence the music industry is a highly predatory one...and not worth working with...and undergoing change now as we speak as it has squeezed the quality right out of itself.
Click to expand...

and distribution comes from where?
 
Anthony Amodeo said:
in a perfect world I could not agree more

but then again I have done quite a bit of work "ghost" tracking for drummers.

it's been a few years but can't say I wouldn't do it again if the price was right
Click to expand...


Would love to hear about your experiences...do you blog about it?...ever written up your past and what you have gone through?

Bet it would sell...
 
Otto said:
Would love to hear about your experiences...do you blog about it?...ever written up your past and what you have gone through?

Bet it would sell...
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no

still going through it

I've thought of starting a blog actually....I have one all set up and it sits blank.

http://whatthedrum.blogspot.com/

just very little time and even less desire to get it going.....one day
 
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