“Drive the beat!!”

Cmdr. Ross

Cmdr. Ross

Platinum Member
I had a bass player tell me I needed to “drive the beat” and as a pocket player, I really didn’t know what he was talking about.
To me, “driving the beat” means “rushing” as you’ll be a bit ahead.
He said if the backbeat comes down on time, the audience will feel as if the band is “dragging”.

I still have NO clue what he’s talking about.

In rock, my job is to be on time. When I play jazz, I’ll push and pull the time a bit.

Anyone have a line in what he may be getting at?
 
Maybe "play on top of the beat". Aka rushing without sounding like you're rushing. In Rock the time pushes and pulls slightly too. The chorus is usually bigger and more "exciting", so the beat may want to be a little on top, and then bring back to the middle for the verses. Things like that. The opposite of this is playing "behind the beat" which is not dragging, just "laying back".

For a great example of playing behind the beat, check out D'Angelo's "The Root". Questlove is not dragging, but he's playing behind the click slightly. It's brilliant.

For a great example of playing on top of the beat, try Sting's "Shadows In The Rain" from his first solo album "Dream Of The Blue Turtles". Omar Hakim plays on top of the click, but is not rushing. Also brilliant.

It's an odd concept to grasp, but I would read up/research on playing behind/on top of the beat. You'll find a lot more examples from the pros than I can give you here.
 
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If you lay it down with an agressive authority , doesn't matter which side of the note you're on , they'll be compelled to follow you . In some styles this is the job description . If you're just a hitching a ride on the chart , that's how it'll feel .

Play like a boss . Are you the noun or the verb ?
 
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vyacheslav said:
Maybe "play on top of the beat". Aka rushing without sounding like you're rushing. In Rock the time pushes and pulls slightly too. The chorus is usually bigger and more "exciting", so the beat may want to be a little on top, and then bring back to the middle for the verses. Things like that. The opposite of this is playing "behind the beat" which is not dragging, just "laying back".

For a great example of playing behind the beat, check out D'Angelo's "The Root". Questlove is not dragging, but he's playing behind the click slightly. It's brilliant.

For a great example of playing on top of the beat, try Sting's "Shadows In The Rain" from his first solo album "Dream Of The Blue Turtles". Omar Hakim plays on top of the click, but is not rushing. Also brilliant.

It's an odd concept to grasp, but I would read up/research on playing behind/on top of the beat. You'll find a lot more examples from the pros than I can give you here.
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Well said & I'll look up these examples. The way you put it makes a lot more sense than how my guy did.
 
Maybe he wants a livelier kick “driving the beat”? That seems to be a thing I note of late- people getting busy even on single pedal- I wonder if double pedal influence?
 
It depends on the song of course but I think most rock/pop songs benefit from pushing the beat. A lot of it is how the vocals are phrased as well. Many hit songs feature "pushed" vocals that are right to the edge of rushed. It's a feel thing but usually I'll start a song being aggressive and only back off if it doesn't fit. Most of the cover bands I see around here play "square" or drag. This leads to a pretty boring performance IMO. I'm after my band members constantly to inject energy into the song and push it! That's what hit songs are made of.
 
"Drive the beat" could mean anything. A lot of people talk gibberish when describing what they want from drums.

I'd start by emphasizing the quarter-note pulse and see if that's what he's asking for, but that's just a guess.
 
One thing I love playing with is keeping it in the pocket on the kick and snare.. but leaning on the hats a bit to 'drive' the beat. Songs like Love Shack has parts where the hats just kick in with a bit of emphasis and it gives it this driving forward motion..eg.the part 'Glitter on the mattress..'
It may be the interplay between the vocals and rythmn guitar.. but I like to think it's my hats that are locking it in Lol.
Another one is Fast As You by Dwight Yokum.. the hats at the beginning have this really cool driving groove. Again I cop it by just leaning a bit on them and it gives it a nice forward motion.
To simulate it.. play the beat in normal time but hit the hats higher up on the stick closer to your hand... you'll hit it a bit sooner than you expect (I don't play it like that of course.. but just to demonstrate the effect).

 
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It's just something everyone can get behind, he probably just wants you to be a bit more authoritative but that's a 5 syllable word and he's a bassist........you see the problem!

There's so many ways to do it. Start with Phil Rudd or Steve Adler. Strong on the quarter notes.

Or then there's the Stewart Copeland way on the 2 and 4.

Danny Seraphine does it with a real jazz rock fusion or there Jim Keltner on Wilbury Twist with a driven Shuffle.
 
I try to imitate Charlie Watts. He tends to play the kick right on the beat, or slightly ahead of it, but then he hangs way back on the snare, putting the "back" in back-beat, so to speak. That way I'm pushing the beat with the kick, while reigning in the band's tendency to accelerate with the snare. It makes for a lopsided sound that some musicians don't like. If things start dragging, I emphasize the kick. If they start accelerating, I emphasize the snare. But that's become too much of a habit for me, and now I really need to focus when playing a song that calls for the snare to be right on the beat, like anything in a Ska or Latin style.
 
I think it is a little more complicated than simply playing behind, ahead of, or right on the beat. It has to do with the whole band and how they are all, as a whole, playing together. I have been in bands where if I play right on the beat (click) the rest of the band, especially the bass player, sounds like they are dragging. On the other hand, if the band as a whole is always trying to rush the song and again, I play right on the beat, the band sounds like it is rushing. And it sounds like I’m trying to hold them back. Really, it can be very complicated. Basically, some people cannot play well together simply because of their playing style. That is where the term “chemistry” comes from when we talk about how the band members sound playing together.

The last band I played in had a lead guitar player that always rushed when he was playing a solo. So, during his solo parts I had to stop driving the beat and I had to play just a tiny bit behind the beat.

The real test is to have the band play the song to a click without the drummer. Then see how the band sounds. You might be surprised how bad the band sounds. I have noticed something interesting when I play Beatle songs. Playing the exact drum parts that Ringo played is highly dependent on the other band members having a really good sense of time. If their timing was poor and they needed a constant 2 and 4 back beat to stay on tempo, then sometimes I had a hard time playing the drum part the way it was supposed to be played.

The sound of the band is dependent on how all of the players follow the tempo set by the drummer. Yes the drummer can make the song sound lifeless and lethargic by not “driving the beat”. But it is all dependent on how well the other players follow the tempo set by the drummer. Yes, as drummers we need to drive the band. But driving the beat too much could result in the band speeding up and rushing the song.



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I find that mostly drums are played on the beat to a click.. but it's a very subtle thing. If you play without a lot of snap in your playing, and the band is lazy or listless it can sound draggy.. but if you smack the drums with a lot of confidence, good volume and punch - they tend to play sharper and lock in with you.

The D'angelo one sounds behind the beat near the beginning.. or is it the band comes in slightly ahead? THey lock into it at some point.. but it sounds a bit awkward off the top.
That Sting track sounds to me like he's playing right on the click.. but gradually speeding up over the length of the tune.

I just wish some band members would practice with a metronome!
Drives me crazy when I hear sloppy bass runs not in time, or washy low bass notes that don't really land on beat.. creating a drag effect.
 
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I'll share one more story.
A friend of mine who played drums was a good drummer. But he always played right on and/or behind the beat. He kind of just played "along with the band". He moved away from our area and he recommended me as a replacement in the rock band that he was in. So his band auditioned a bunch of drummers including me. The first audition went well. They called me back to audition a second time because they had narrowed it down to me and one other drummer. After the second audition they decided to go with the other drummer. And they told me I was great, but that their bass player felt that he could not "lock on" with me during some of the songs. And I knew exactly why. It was because the bass player had been driving the band for so long when playing with my friend. And when I tried to drive the band he could not work with that. By the way, I use a BPM meter while I'm playing so I know exactly where the tempo is at all times.

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Hollywood Jim said:
The real test is to have the band play the song to a click without the drummer. Then see how the band sounds. You might be surprised how bad the band sounds.
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The last time I tried that, I programmed the drums for a song so the guys would have something easier to play with than just a click.

The band finished the song and I was slack jawed when they said they thought it went well. They ended up slightly more than an entire quarter note ahead of the drum track, and had no idea they were out of time. Wow. That made me think I was just wasting my time (pardon the pun) on those guys. They were listening to each other, and not paying any attention at all to the drums. But then when I played passively, just following their tempo, they didn't like that. They wanted me to lead, but they weren't listening to my playing, so... WTF?
 
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I wonder if the other musicians can handle drums playing ahead of the beat. They might just all speed up.
 
ravenson said:
If you lay it down with an agressive authority , doesn't matter which side of the note you're on , they'll be compelled to follow you . In some styles this is the job description . If you're just a hitching a ride on the chart , that's how it'll feel .

Play like a boss . Are you the noun or the verb ?
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This is how I approach timpani playing. I’m the boss. Everyone else makes suggestions with their playing, I make decisions.
 
Cmdr. Ross said:
I still have NO clue what he’s talking about.
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Maybe. Maybe. It's the snap. In. the sound.
Are you cracking the snare authoritatively?
ya know, brass, die cast, butt end out, cracking?
Give the forward/motion/ illusion
? Right in the middle but just, "Crackin"
or "Kraken"
 
No Way Jose said:
I wonder if the other musicians can handle drums playing ahead of the beat. They might just all speed up.
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Yeah, I've had that experience with a couple of bass players. They kept speeding up and I kept trying to catch up. I was slightly behind them the whole way, but when we stopped, they blamed me for speeding up. Now I realize they just couldn't keep time worth beans, so I should have ignored them and been bossier about the tempo. But when you're playing with somebody for the first time, and you're jamming, it takes more sensitivity than I have to tell what's going on.
 
My guys tell me they like how I drive the beat on this song, so I guess this is what it means!

 
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