Drum dial or Tunebot?

[lefty2]

Why do drummers think they are the only musicians on earth exempt from tuning assistance? Symphonies use tuning references. Guitar/bass players user them. Im glad you get what you need but using the tools will make you better.

I use the tune bot. The devices relying on tension depend on too many variables being on the mark

You make a good point. I'm 60yr now and growing up guitarists did not use tuners back then. I see every one using them now though
.It's probably good to learn to tune by ear, as well as use devices. I would like to have one, but don't want to spend the money on one.

 

[Rock Salad]

The apps are inexpensive and do work pretty well. Tune Bot is better, but more expensive.
Tuners can help one's ear by giving you a pretty accurate visual number for each tap while you are also hearing the tap. All the overtones a head make can be confusing. Having the tuner helped me to sort them out and hear the tones that are most essential to the resonance of the drum and learn how to split the difference between heads to get nicer overtones too.
Never tried Drum Dial, never needed to change heads in a big rush, which seems to be their huge advantage- to be really quick and not to need sound to tune.
The other great thing about tuners is for micing up- you can know the exact frequency that a drum is sitting at.

 

[Larry]

Why do drummers think they are the only musicians on earth exempt from tuning assistance?

I'd say probably because drum tuners only became available for the last 20 or 25 years. So for the first 100 years, we had nothing. So there's a big faction of people who never had the benefit of drum tuners. Now that we do have them, they are great for people who never spent hundreds of hours learning the ins and outs of tuning drums.

I used a drum dial and it taught me a lot about the forces on a drumhead. I have a tune bot but never warmed up to it and prefer doing it by ear. I did spend hundreds of hours learning to tune with a drum dial, and it taught me to be able to tune without one eventually. Now I have a skill no one can take from me. I came up with my own system using what I call "tuning lines". I thought of making a video about it, but with things like the tune bot available, no one will likely take the time to bother with it. Which is fine. Whatever works the quickest. Nothing to be snobby about.

But they are great for anyone who uses them. Whatever gets you there.

 

[yammyfan]

I came up with my own system using what I call "tuning lines". I thought of making a video about it, but with things like the tune bot available, no one will likely take the time to bother with it. Which is fine. Whatever works the quickest. Nothing to be snobby about.

Larry, I would be absolutely interested in hearing about your system. A Tune-Bot will measure a result but it doesn't determine how you get it.

 

[GretschedHive]

Does anyone know (Bermuda?) what, if anything, they use in major studios these days? Or on major tours? Do the drum techs for, say, an Eric Clapton tour use a TuneBot or DrumDial? What about at someplace like Electric Lady or Capitol Studios or wherever?

 

[dboomer]

My take precisely. Another important point: The timpani is the only drum with pure pitch. Your drumkit can't be tuned to a perfect A, C, or D. Drums have tone, not absolute pitch. I hear a lot of players talking about the pitch of their drums. That's a misuse of the term.

Depends on how you use the term. Your two headed drums can indeed be tuned so that the fundamentals are in whatever pitch you want them. But yes, you also generate a bunch on non-harmonic overtones.

Violins (and probably other instruments I don’t know about) have similar issues. On violins they are called wolf tones.

 

[C.M. Jones]

Depends on how you use the term. Your two headed drums can indeed be tuned so that the fundamentals are in whatever pitch you want them. But yes, you also generate a bunch on non-harmonic overtones.

Violins (and probably other instruments I don’t know about) have similar issues. On violins they are called wolf tones.

Drums can achieve an approximation of pitch, but they can't, save the timpani, lay claim to reaching the precision of pitch that a string instrument can convey. Moreover, it generally isn't practical to attempt to tune a drum set to the key of a given song. If that's your goal, you'd have to retune after every song. Drum sets need to be tuned so that their various pieces are compatible with each other. When a guitarist is in a low key, a drummer doesn't have to loosen his heads, nor is it necessary to tighten heads when a guitarist switches to a higher key. If fact, inconsistency in such cases can be quite appealing.

In essence, a tuned drum is one that sounds good. Anyone with experience should be able to get there with the use of a basic drum key alone. There's no reason to have each rod at an exact tension. Just because rods have equal tension doesn't mean a drum sounds good. Sometimes, leaving one rod a bit looser than the others produces the exact effect you're seeking.

 

[Larry]

Larry, I would be absolutely interested in hearing about your system. A Tune-Bot will measure a result but it doesn't determine how you get it.

OK yammydude, just for you. I'll try and simplify it as best as I can.

This only works on drums with an even number of lugs.

A 6 lug tom has 3 straight "tuning lines".

I focus on one tuning line at a time. While lightly touching the center of the head with my fingertip to make the harmonic sound. I tap near each of the 2 lugs that make up the straight line, listening to any differences in the harmonic note, and adjusting in small increments if necessary until they match.

The main takeaway is that both sides of the drum are being worked for even-ness.

I sample all 3 tuning lines and I start with the line that sounds the most in tune to begin with.

After I get the first 2 lugs harmonic sound to match each other, I do the same with the other 2 tuning lines, trying to match the first line. This more or less insures that my head doesn't go on cockeyed.

The bottom head doesn't have to be muted but it doesn't hurt.

I won't go into the important relationship between the top and bottom heads here, other than to say that it's good to know what you like as far as the phase relationship between the 2 heads are concerned.

After I tune both heads, then to really finish the job, I adjust the relationship of the 2 heads to the way I like them, reso an octave higher than the batter, judging by the harmonics. It's my personal favorite way to tune out of the many different and completely valid variations.

 

[TMe]

Why do drummers think they are the only musicians on earth exempt from tuning assistance?

Because drummers with good ears can get better results just using their ears. Tuning a drum isn't like tuning a guitar.

Even if you use a tunebot, you might end up tweaking things by ear after you've dialed in definite notes.

As for me, I can't tune worth beans, so the tunebot is very helpful. The drum dial was almost useless.

 

[MrInsanePolack]

A 6 lug tom has 3 straight "tuning lines".

Those are just the opposites right? You can also tune a 6 lug drum using triangles, as the distance between lugs in a triangle is the same also. A square for 8 lugs.

 

[dboomer]

Drums can achieve an approximation of pitch, but they can't, save the timpani, lay claim to reaching the precision of pitch that a string instrument can convey. Moreover, it generally isn't practical to attempt to tune a drum set to the key of a given song. If that's your goal, you'd have to retune after every song.

Well I can tell you from the experience of moving Terry Bozzio‘s tuned kit around that is not the case. You can throw that kit in the trailer, drive it 500 miles, get it out and set it up and less than 10% of the kit needs touching up. We’re talking about 33 pitched drums here.

 

[yammyfan]

Uncle Larry, that sounds like a great system. It's evident why it works.

Thank you for taking the time to write that down

 

[C.M. Jones]

Well I can tell you from the experience of moving Terry Bozzio‘s tuned kit around that is not the case. You can throw that kit in the trailer, drive it 500 miles, get it out and set it up and less than 10% of the kit needs touching up. We’re talking about 33 pitched drums here.

I'm not referring to drums that might lose their tuning as a result of being played or moved, nor am I rejecting the idea of pinpointing an all-purpose tuning and sticking with it for the most part. I'm talking about the impractical mission of aiming for drastically different tunings from song to song -- meaning retuning every drum, after every song, in an effort to match the key of the next song. That's an option in the studio; it isn't quite as accessible in a live setting.

 

[Stuflyer]

Thanks for the responses: Tune Bot it is then Just for information, I have been playing for nearly 40 years and do in fact know how to tune a drum kit, I just want to see what possibilities are available to me. it seems to me that ignoring any possible advantages of the devices is just making work for myself and possibly missing out on some musical applications.

 

[Stuflyer]

Yeah, you're just clearly better. Got it.

 

[bigbang]

So i've seen these threads before on here and then this one just popped up.
I stopped at a friends house who owns both devices and asked if I could borrow them and try them out. He said cool.

Drum dial - was pretty easy to use but , when i got the head up to the desired tension -it was fairly in tune. It did have have wrinkles at one lug but gave the proper reading. It had horrible over tones though around the edges.

Tune bot - fairly easy to use as well, however , it took some time to get everything perfect when you start playing with the : Hz , pitch, using the difference setting , etc.
And when i was done ....bad over tones again around the rim.

I was able to fine tune the drum ( lugwig maple classic by the way ) by ear and that didnt take too long from those points with the two devices.

My findings : either I'm not using them properly or they arent all that. Both cost roughly $100 in my area.
I think i would save that money or look for second hand but you'll still have to fine tune.

 

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

I was able to fine tune the drum ( lugwig maple classic by the way ) by ear and that didnt take too long from those points with the two devices.

My findings : either I'm not using them properly or they arent all that. Both cost roughly $100 in my area.
I think i would save that money or look for second hand but you'll still have to fine tune.

That would be my most common use. Just get in the ballpark quickly when changing and stretching new heads.

I'm a very simple guy with this stuff and I will obviously also fine tune a guitar by ear as a traditional guitar neck is by it's nature not completely in tune. A nice sounding piano isn't either. Equal temperament doesn't sound very nice. Drums have a character that comes from quirks, certainly obvious with the ones I like. There many types of modern drum tones that don't warm my heart much at all.

I can't say I intentionally mismatch lugs a lot, but that certainly is a thing for certain sounds and if the drum has edge or other symmetry issues you will have to compensate to make it sound good. Even lugs don't help a whole lot if it still sounds like shit when you hit it in the center.

It is music and in the end we listen wih our ears, not our eyes.

I do have a couple of drums I found a bit challenging as they were not exactly what I was used to and being able to take notes of the frequencies when experimenting was helpful.

 

[WallyY]

I had a drum dial, and I have a Tunebot and Resotune.
The Tunebot is the way to go.
Resotune takes too long to use, but it is the best and will make a drum perfectly clear.
Think of it as Drumdial is best for general tension, TuneBot is best for tuning to frequency and Resotune best for clearing the head to take the tuned drum to the purest state. If you think the Tunebot is complicated to program, you will not be able to understand the Resotune, but both do the same thing.
Tuning by ear is, of course, a proper skill to learn to do correctly, but it will make your ears very fatigued. Listening to overtones and changing frequencies bouncing off walls can make a person nutty.

 

[Stroman]

I'd say probably because drum tuners only became available for the last 20 or 25 years. So for the first 100 years, we had nothing. So there's a big faction of people who never had the benefit of drum tuners. Now that we do have them, they are great for people who never spent hundreds of hours learning the ins and outs of tuning drums.

I used a drum dial and it taught me a lot about the forces on a drumhead. I have a tune bot but never warmed up to it and prefer doing it by ear. I did spend hundreds of hours learning to tune with a drum dial, and it taught me to be able to tune without one eventually. Now I have a skill no one can take from me. I came up with my own system using what I call "tuning lines". I thought of making a video about it, but with things like the tune bot available, no one will likely take the time to bother with it. Which is fine. Whatever works the quickest. Nothing to be snobby about.

But they are great for anyone who uses them. Whatever gets you there.

I wish that were true. Well, maybe no ONE can take it away from you, but nature can. I got a virus that damaged my hearing. I can still hear, but I don't hear all frequencies properly, nor are my ears "matched." While I can still tune by ear, and I feel like my drums sound as good or better than most, I would LOVE to have some assistance. Sometimes it is very hard for me to figure out what is wrong when something just isn't sitting right. I'd like to try the TuneBot to see if it helps me, as others have experienced.

The drum dial, I have no real use for. Likewise the torque keys - those make no sense at all to me. Nearly every drum I've worked with has lugs in which the tension rod is easier or harder to tighten than the others. Too many points of friction are present to remove enough variables to make that kind of thing useful.

 

[Old Dog new Cans]

I guess I trust my hands and ears more than a machine. I've not used a bot. And I wouldn't even consider the one that simply measures tension. It seems like it would be a crutch. Going to a gig, "Oh crap, I forgot my tunebot, How will I ever tune my drums?" It reminds me of my golf GPS. I freak out now if I go to the course without it. Like I can't look at the hundred yard marker and estimate with my frickin' mind if the shot is 95 or 105 yards.