How to deal with jerk band members

V

vlcnridr

Junior Member
Hey guys and ladies, I took the drums back up around three years ago after not playing in over ten years to help out our band at my church. For the most part it has been a great experience but lately not so much. We recently went through a recording session and based on that experience the group finally agreed with me that our tempos are all over the place on songs. I brought up to the band at our next rehearsal that I would like to have us start rehearsing with a click which I am willing to pay for to help make us tighter as a group. Most of the group agreed that it was a good idea, save for our rhythm/acoustic guitar player who in the time since has become a real prick about little tempo issues. For instance, he starts a song out too slow and then wants to speed it up which I fight since the group agreed that we need to maintain tempos instead of being as erratic as we were on our studio tracks. He also stated that I need to un-learn the double bass hit on the three beat of our uptempo 4/4 tunes because it sounds like I am behind when paired up with his bass part on the studio work which was done after the drum track was in place. Usually I play it as a a quarter note on one and two eighths on the three beat. Is this wrong?

Any advice on how to deal with this guy? I really am starting to love playing again and don't want to start hating the drums because of another person.
 
Whoa... Not sure about all the stuff in the last sentence. Thats a pretty specific problem. Overall though, you are the timekeeper. I played at a church for a short time with a bunch of non-musician musicians and it was freakin' horrible tempo, form, dynamics were all over. I quit rather than try to save a sinking ship, but just decided to ebb and flow with them for the most part as I wasn't really sure what the heck they were hearing during the songs that made them do what they did.

Anyway, lean hard on the "rhythm" guitarist. The worst thing you can do for the band is allow him to mess with your tempos. Nothing is ever going to be 100% on all the time, and while playing with a click might make everyone uncomfortable, it might be really good for everyone overall.
 
Get him in the parking lot.


seriously, talk to the man one -on - one, privately. Tell him the issue is throwing you off, and can we work it together so we sound good together?

Now if he's worth his salt as a musician he should be hearing you out and looking to fix things.

If he is'nt, then like I said......
 
I have had the same kinda issues in a church setting. I basically tried to look from a neutral perspective & realized that I was being a 'snob' for lack of a better word. Sure, I was likely the most experienced musician in the band & my opinions were right, but if the others are not down with it, it really makes no difference. You have to ask yourself what's more important, playing & having fun or making it perfect? If making it perfect is not an option with the current line up, then just have fun with it. You will beat yourself up trying to make others see things your way. I finally gave up & learned to just go with the general consensus. After all, I am just the drummer... :) Good luck, bro.
 
First of all, no one and nothing should keep you from passion (in this case, the drums).

Being in a band, like in any relationship, does involve compromise and sacrifice, and everyone involved should realize that. It looks like you are willing to take that extra step, paying for the click.

At the same time, the compromise applies to the musical aspect of it as well. Without hearing the track it's hard to say what would or wouldn't be appealing to the average listener. I would have some of the other members of the band hear just the two of you play that part the way you want it and the way he'd like it and see what sounds better. In most musical situations, less is more (the simpler, the better).
 
Aydee is on the right track. I too play in a church setting every week - you do have to accomodate the fact that not all the musicians are on an equal level. By the way, that happpens in ANY setting...not just a church. Think high school band, etc.

I would try to approach the guitarist and express that you would like to see the music continually get better...try to work with him/her toward that end..it's not easy dealing with egos.

If he/she doesn't want to cooperate then it really is an issue for the entire band and/or the music director, etc.

Hang in there...
 
As far as meeting him in the parking lot, I don' t think that is really an option. I should've also mentioned that he is half again bigger than I and he is also my older brother. Plus, it is a church setting after all.

Just the drummer, yeah right. I've heard that one about way too many times. My perspective is to continually strive towards perfection, while knowing that I will never achieve it. After all, the the journey is always better than the destination, right?

I think the consensus is that most of you are saying that I need to go with what is best for the good of the group and to let the group decide what that means. Is that pretty much it?
 
vlcnridr said:
As far as meeting him in the parking lot, I don' t think that is really an option. I should've also mentioned that he is half again bigger than I and he is also my older brother. Plus, it is a church setting after all.

Just the drummer, yeah right. I've heard that one about way too many times. My perspective is to continually strive towards perfection, while knowing that I will never achieve it. After all, the the journey is always better than the destination, right?

I think the consensus is that most of you are saying that I need to go with what is best for the good of the group and to let the group decide what that means. Is that pretty much it?
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aaah, big bro! That changes the whole game doesn't it. That's a whole different bowl of wax, as they say.

Depending on how old you are ( or he is ) there's not much a younger brother can say or do without getting a wedgie and being totally overruled.

So yeah, grin and bear it, stand up for truth and justice, and for the overall good of the band ( without getting your butt kicked, if you can), and hopefully he's a reasonable guy who will look at you as a good drummer who happens to be his younger brother, and not someone who he can ride roughshod over.

good luck.
 
thanks everyone. I just needed to hear that I was doing the right thing by going with what the majority of the group agreed on. I really appreciate hearing the thoughts of those who have gone through this before.
 
vlcnridr said:
As far as meeting him in the parking lot, I don' t think that is really an option. I should've also mentioned that he is half again bigger than I and he is also my older brother. Plus, it is a church setting after all.

Just the drummer, yeah right. I've heard that one about way too many times. My perspective is to continually strive towards perfection, while knowing that I will never achieve it. After all, the the journey is always better than the destination, right?

I think the consensus is that most of you are saying that I need to go with what is best for the good of the group and to let the group decide what that means. Is that pretty much it?
Click to expand...

I would bring the metronome to the next practice and announce to the group that you'll be using it as a guide for yourself. That will set you up as the authority on the the stability of the tempo. Be prepared to plug the metronome into an amplifier if other people want to hear it.

Also, since the guitarist is your brother, ask him if he wants to play with you one-on-one and work things out with the metronome.
 
He did say at the meeting where I originally brought up the metronome idea that he would like to do a rhythm section practice seperate from the singer so we could work on tightening things up. Basically I understood it as we would have me, the usual bass player and my brother on rhythm guitar. I told him I would be fine with that and to figure out a time. I'm still waiting to hear back on that one.
 
Deathmetalconga said:
I would bring the metronome to the next practice and announce to the group that you'll be using it as a guide for yourself. QUOTE]

I tried this before but figuring out the tempos was a pain and took much time from actual rehearsal. So this time around I said that I was going to try and record rehearsals and services to get an idea for how fast we perform the songs and then use that as a guide for setting the tempo.
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Ouch! It gets personal when it's a sibling, particularly an older brother. I too have an older brother who helped me when I was much younger but now we've grown apart. Lke the others have said, TRY to work with him one-on-one to get the tempos set at the beginning of the songs and use a metronome if you can to prove your point. Also, the majority rules too, so the other band members have a voice and decision. Hang in there...hopefully he'll come to respect your talents and realize that as timekeeper, your main responsibility is to provide solid tempos.
 
rogue_drummer said:
Ouch! It gets personal when it's a sibling, particularly an older brother. I too have an older brother who helped me when I was much younger but now we've grown apart. Lke the others have said, TRY to work with him one-on-one to get the tempos set at the beginning of the songs and use a metronome if you can to prove your point. Also, the majority rules too, so the other band members have a voice and decision. Hang in there...hopefully he'll come to respect your talents and realize that as timekeeper, your main responsibility is to provide solid tempos.
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The thing is we've been closer than any brother siblings I know and I don't want to lose that; even my friends have commented on how surprised they are at how well we get along. That said, this BS is making it hard to work with him. Thanks for the thoughts.
 
What I have found, unfortunately, is that some musicians (drummers included) do not have a good sense of timing. And, this is something that you are either born with, or that you don't have. And although practicing can help a bit, they usually do not get much better.

I have a guitar player currently that is really good. Very bluesy, rock and roll. But, he gets lost on "where the 1 is" and often comes out of his solos at the wrong time. Not just a quarter note off. I am talking 3 16th notes and stuff. Just crazy.

And, he doesn't know it when it happens, AND he thinks that the entire band is OFF and not him.

So, either learn to deal with his timing issues (as I have) or move on. Things will not change too much.

When I played guitar in a band years ago, I worked with a drummer that had AMAZING chops. And, when you are young like I was, that was very impressive. However, when a drummer does fills and doesn't even come close to coming back on 1, there are issues.

I could believe that a great technician couldn't "keep time". And, this person didn't know they were not on time. So, after months of frustration, we were forced to move on.
 
Isn't always the guitar player?

Have you recorded any your band's perfomances? This is the first step in the brutal truth process.
 
Normally, he is the rhythm guitar player. If we don't have a bass player available, he will move back to bass since the bass is more important than having rhythm guitar and no bass.

We have the recordings from the studio plus the feelings from various members including himself that we either sped up or slowed down during a song. Usually though, we tend to speed up going into choruses and slow down going into verses and breaks.

I would think that the proof from the studio should be enough. The stuff they layed down while I was not in to lay down a steady tempo was absolutely horrible with major tempo swings.
 
Every band has one! Someone who resists helping to find solutions to problems. I have always had conflicts with Keyboard players and lead guitar players for some reason. There is a running joke among my long time band members. I own a backhoe. Every time we have a problem with a band member my friends joke that I'm going to dig a deep hole and plant a new garden. The bottom line is that you set the tempo. If you use a click and play to it, the other people will pretty much have to play in the time that you set. I like to set the click and count off the songs so that we start at the correct speed. As for the bass drum, If I am synced with the bass player then my bass drum is OK. Thats what I strive for with my bass drum play.
 
vlcnridr said:
I tried this before but figuring out the tempos was a pain and took much time from actual rehearsal. So this time around I said that I was going to try and record rehearsals and services to get an idea for how fast we perform the songs and then use that as a guide for setting the tempo.
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Finding the tempo should only take seconds. Just sing or play a few measures of the song while tapping. Once everyone agrees on the correct tempo, find it one the metronome. If you are using printed music, the tempo should also be written on the top. I use a Tama Rhythm Watch and it has a useful feature - you tap a tempo button and it tells you how many beats per minute.
 
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