How to deal with jerk band members

aydee said:
Now if he's worth his salt as a musician he should be hearing you out and looking to fix things.
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Bingo.

Every band problem that I've ever had stemmed from this one thing. Any musician who knows what they are doing and cares about the ensemble will be more than willing to work towards a solution. This guy is just an immature jerk.

I think the best way to attack this is to get the other guys on your side. That way you have leverage in dealing with this guy. Then he won't be fighting with you, but the whole band. I can tell you that the situation probably won't end well. Just be the bigger man and take the high road.
 
Talk to the band as a whole. Tell them if he is still being a jerk, then you are going to stop playing. Its either he stops sucking at life, or you quit.

But thats extreme.
 
Lots of great stuff said here.

If its for "fun" and you are having a great time on the kit than roll with it.


If you are paying for studio time on your recording? The Engineer will surely tear him a new one and then proly pick up the acoustic and lay down the track him or herself. lol

I know lots of guys that gig together here and there but when it comes to studio time, that's an entirely different gig. My daddy used to tell me: "son, when you think you know it all thats when you stop learning". Your guitar player is VERY aware of his timing issues and the Click is like kryptonite to the poor fellow. I hope this all works out for you.
 
I had an experience similar to this at a open jazz jam. I was playing a song and the bass player wouldn't get off my back during it. He kept on telling me how to play the song and he even stopped playing in the middle of the song! Here I was new at playing jazz and drummers went there to learn, improve, and have fun. And here is this guy busting my stones during the song, which I never heard. After I played I pretty much told him off (as professional as possible). I told him this is a JAZZ JAM, not a competition and it was amazing how he didn't have anything to say to the other drummers. Especially a guy 30 years older than me who is a student of my teacher and we started drum lessons around the same time!

Well to make a long story short I went to my first recording studio performance to cut some jazz tracks. As I was busy setting up the studio's kit, I noticed the bass player arrived and didn't say hello. I looked up and I knew why. It was the same bass player from the jazz jam! You got to be kidding, I told myself! Me, a saxophone, trombone, singer, pianist, and him recorded 4 songs and it all went well. I shook the bass player's hand and thanked everyone for the performance. But the leader of this band wants to work with this bass player. The bass player even complained during the recording that my snare was drowning out his bass. Was this a valid complaint or a continuation of how I know him to be? What would you all do? Obviously he noticed that I don't play when it comes to jazz drumming now, but who needs the attitude. Intooder is completely and totally right. No one is going to step on my parade when it comes to my love of drums. But out of all the bass players the leader of the band picked this guy.

So to all you new players out there you will encounter people who want to dog you and maybe trash your playing. Well the heck with them!
 
enforcerdrummer said:
I had an experience similar to this at a open jazz jam. I was playing a song and the bass player wouldn't get off my back during it. He kept on telling me how to play the song and he even stopped playing in the middle of the song! Here I was new at playing jazz and drummers went there to learn, improve, and have fun. And here is this guy busting my stones during the song, which I never heard. After I played I pretty much told him off (as professional as possible). I told him this is a JAZZ JAM, not a competition and it was amazing how he didn't have anything to say to the other drummers. Especially a guy 30 years older than me who is a student of my teacher and we started drum lessons around the same time!

Well to make a long story short I went to my first recording studio performance to cut some jazz tracks. As I was busy setting up the studio's kit, I noticed the bass player arrived and didn't say hello. I looked up and I knew why. It was the same bass player from the jazz jam! You got to be kidding, I told myself! Me, a saxophone, trombone, singer, pianist, and him recorded 4 songs and it all went well. I shook the bass player's hand and thanked everyone for the performance. But the leader of this band wants to work with this bass player. The bass player even complained during the recording that my snare was drowning out his bass. Was this a valid complaint or a continuation of how I know him to be? What would you all do? Obviously he noticed that I don't play when it comes to jazz drumming now, but who needs the attitude. Intooder is completely and totally right. No one is going to step on my parade when it comes to my love of drums. But out of all the bass players the leader of the band picked this guy.

So to all you new players out there you will encounter people who want to dog you and maybe trash your playing. Well the heck with them!
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Honestly, you should listen to that bass player and thank him.

...and it was amazing how he didn't have anything to say to the other drummers.
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If he had nothing to say to the other drummers, but he had a lot to say about you, that doesn't say anything about him, it does however say a lot about your playing.
I haven't heard you play so I can't judge, but take what he said to heart and try to improve.
 
Sorry blade, but being the stubborn person I am, I have to disagree with you. Could my experience be related to ageism? I'm looking forward to Modern Drummer having an article on this topic. The student that started lessons a little before me wasn't accosted when he went to play his song. I guess maybe if your a young beginner then you shouldn't waste your time trying to learn new songs at jazz jams and just stay at home and practice all by yourself. And the fellow student and I were at the same level of drumming as far as I am concerned.

I have played those jams with countless other professional musicians and not one band member has ever corrected me or stopped playing during a song! I have received warm comments from the many other great musicians that attend these jams about my playing, back when I was just learning jazz standards like 'All blues' and "four."
 
Like I said, I haven't heard you play so I can't judge.
But for me, whenever I receive harsh comments about my playing, I always get pissed off at first, then realize that they're right and practice more. I'm not saying this is the case for you, since I haven't heard you play.
 
enforcerdrummer said:
Sorry blade, but being the stubborn person I am, I have to disagree with you. Could my experience be related to ageism? I'm looking forward to Modern Drummer having an article on this topic. The student that started lessons a little before me wasn't accosted when he went to play his song. I guess maybe if your a young beginner then you shouldn't waste your time trying to learn new songs at jazz jams and just stay at home and practice all by yourself. And the fellow student and I were at the same level of drumming as far as I am concerned.

I have played those jams with countless other professional musicians and not one band member has ever corrected me or stopped playing during a song! I have received warm comments from the many other great musicians that attend these jams about my playing, back when I was just learning jazz standards like 'All blues' and "four."
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The best advice I ever got was when I was a kid and a much older drummer said to me, "White boy, you can't play jazz worth a s**t."
 
vlcnridr said:
Hey guys and ladies, I took the drums back up around three years ago after not playing in over ten years to help out our band at my church. For the most part it has been a great experience but lately not so much. We recently went through a recording session and based on that experience the group finally agreed with me that our tempos are all over the place on songs. I brought up to the band at our next rehearsal that I would like to have us start rehearsing with a click which I am willing to pay for to help make us tighter as a group. Most of the group agreed that it was a good idea, save for our rhythm/acoustic guitar player who in the time since has become a real prick about little tempo issues. For instance, he starts a song out too slow and then wants to speed it up which I fight since the group agreed that we need to maintain tempos instead of being as erratic as we were on our studio tracks. He also stated that I need to un-learn the double bass hit on the three beat of our uptempo 4/4 tunes because it sounds like I am behind when paired up with his bass part on the studio work which was done after the drum track was in place. Usually I play it as a a quarter note on one and two eighths on the three beat. Is this wrong?

Any advice on how to deal with this guy? I really am starting to love playing again and don't want to start hating the drums because of another person.
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Been there done that.

Yeah that's a tough situation however, if you're recording, it only need be YOU that hears the click track, and if you're dead on it's gotta be him with the time problems.

And live, don't slide the tempos up or down after you start the song, just change it around so YOU count them in. If it's his fault for always starting them differently then he should be absolved of counting them in OR he has to deal with it where it lies. There's not too much that looks more bush-league that when you have to speed up or slow down right at the beginning of the tune, Yechh!!

There's a gizmo that you can get that will give you a tempo that you set in before hand, it will give you say 100bpm and blink it with lights so you can count it in exactly at the agreed upon tempo. I'm sure SOMEONE here knows the gizmo I mean, HELP!!

Most problems in a band situation like this come from the added adrenalin that sometimes messes with your ability to count as compared to when you're calm. The electronics will tell you where it is and if it's OK at rehearsal and NOT OK on the gigs it's probably just the adrenalin rush that's messin' with you or him.

As far as the double bass figure, that's where musical taste comes in, it sounds like you two are in two hemispheres of two different worlds.

Remember that THIS band is not the beginning or end of the musical world, we've ALL been through TONS of bands to get to the one we WANT to be in, maybe THIS isn't the one for you is all.

Good luck and I hope this helps a bit.
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__________________
Most respect the badge, but all fear the drum.
 
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Things here are starting to resolve. On Sunday morning, I showed up early for service and sat in on the service prior to ours. One of the singers from our group was there and came over to where I was sitting and informed me that after I left, the guy asked the other members of the group if he was out of line and they told him that he was in fact being too hard on me and that also he does have an issue with being disrespectful to other band members and that he needs to work on it.

I guess maybe I did the right thing by standing up to him. In the end, I am sure he will come around on the click idea since his other group is starting to use one as well. He also in the past has been very good at making up for his mistakes. I will most likely never hear "sorry", but his actions will bear that out.

Thanks again to everyone that replied for all your thoughts on this.
 
^ youre a better man than me.

Ive been in far too many bands where ego's have driven the band to stupidity.

Basically, for me nowadays, if any members are pig-headed, immature or inflexible enough not to take criticism or alternative sources of advice, Im outta there.
 
So it's a church band, right? Who's the leader of the band/music ministry? That person is in charge of determining how they want to sound, who controls the tempos, etc. It sucks, but that's how it works in most churches.

There is one church that pays me to play with them from time to time when their drummers are sick/out of town/whatever. The music minister there made it very clear that he's not a fan of drums, or bass, or electric guitar. The vocals set the tempo. Plain as that. So, when they speed up, the band has to speed up. When they slow down, the band slows down. When they come in half way through a measure because they don't want to wait for the entire band break or whatever, the band has to shift to the right part. It's the closest I've ever come to playing crazy free jazz in a church setting. But it's his call. The church has lost a lot of members because of the music there, but it is what it is.
 
mrchattr said:
So it's a church band, right? Who's the leader of the band/music ministry? That person is in charge of determining how they want to sound, who controls the tempos, etc. It sucks, but that's how it works in most churches.

There is one church that pays me to play with them from time to time when their drummers are sick/out of town/whatever. The music minister there made it very clear that he's not a fan of drums, or bass, or electric guitar. The vocals set the tempo. Plain as that. So, when they speed up, the band has to speed up. When they slow down, the band slows down. When they come in half way through a measure because they don't want to wait for the entire band break or whatever, the band has to shift to the right part. It's the closest I've ever come to playing crazy free jazz in a church setting. But it's his call. The church has lost a lot of members because of the music there, but it is what it is.
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That sux, I've played in churches most of my life but it was a little more laid back, and because the music needs to be more reverend (If thats the word I want) the music was tight, so as not to be distracting.
 
Drumsword said:
That sux, I've played in churches most of my life but it was a little more laid back, and because the music needs to be more reverend (If thats the word I want) the music was tight, so as not to be distracting.
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Yeah, I've played dozens of churches, and this is the only one that's like that.
 
As far as the original poster's situation is concerned, get a good digital voice recorder and record all rehearsals and performances. You can easily edit the recordings at home, then, given a high speed connection, FTP or e-mail them to the whole band. Hopefully they'll listen to them before the next get together.

If the offenders have ears, they'll hear where they went astray, and do something about it.

If they don't, seek other situations.
 
mikei said:
What I have found, unfortunately, is that some musicians (drummers included) do not have a good sense of timing. And, this is something that you are either born with, or that you don't have. And although practicing can help a bit, they usually do not get much better.

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Not to be quarrelsome, what you say raises interesting ideas, but in my opinion, a good sense of timing is something that can be learned, or unlearned / lost.

I've worked with players that had an excellent sense of time, then played with them years later when they were rusty and had trouble. With practice they got it back, had to knock the dust off.

It is true some players are more natural, more relaxed, but in my opinion, backed by experience, timing issues can be resolved with practice, understanding of syncopation and meter, a metronome, and a good teacher. What you are say condemes a whole group of students, they might as well not even try?



mikei said:
I have a guitar player currently that is really good. Very bluesy, rock and roll. But, he gets lost on "where the 1 is" and often comes out of his solos at the wrong time. Not just a quarter note off. I am talking 3 16th notes and stuff. Just crazy.

And, he doesn't know it when it happens, AND he thinks that the entire band is OFF and not him.

So, either learn to deal with his timing issues (as I have) or move on. .
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Confused a little on this .... If the guitarist gets lost a lot, why call him 'really good'. Sounds like he has potential, but is still learning the ropes. Give him awhile before calling him good.

I'm also curious how you deal with his timing issues: Do you adjust your time?
I would not recommend it, it is like moving chairs around out of the way of a blind man, he'll never learn where they are. Better to let him slop over at the end of a solo and have to stop and listen to find the one. If he hears the whole band solid and together without him, he'll put it together soon enough.



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