Getting taken seriously with an ekit

toddy said:
I should say I don't mind if people just flat out hate them, that's fine! everyone should have their own opinion, i'm not some hitler 2.0 stalking the DW forums.
my point is people should have some respect,
Click to expand...

I agree Toddy, and being the first on my block to buy a high end acoustic kit with no lugs I am use to getting dumped on and treated like the ugly duckling by the narrow minded but have grown a thick skin because of it. When I do make the purchase of an ekit I will play them proudly with my head held high caused by the extra layers in my wallet while the non working musicians stand at the back of the club pointing and jeering...lol
 
sticks4drums said:
Then the solo pianist comes out in his or her tux, and plays an electronic Roland, Yamaha, Akai, whatever.
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention that. A few years back I was part of the volunteer crew lugging gear and such for a local out door concert in my home town headlined By Anne Murry, other acts consisted of Men of the Deep, Rita Mcneil, The Rankins, Blue Rodeo, etc, Any way a bunch of us are lugging speakers and monitors, cables , several large consoles etc, etc, when a cube van shows up with a baby grand piano (it did seem a bit light for a piano) which we proceed to ramp up onto the stage After positioning it on stage I flip open the keyboard lid to maybe tickle the ivorys a bit and low and behold to my supprise its empty. About then along comes the head sound engineer with a keyboard, plugs it in, slips it into the key area and runs the cables down the back of the leg to hide them, looks at us and says "its all smoke and mirrors boys, just smoke and mirrors".....lol
 
Last edited:
tard said:
I agree Toddy, and being the first on my block to buy a high end acoustic kit with no lugs I am use to getting dumped on and treated like the ugly duckling by the narrow minded but have grown a thick skin because of it. When I do make the purchase of an ekit I will play them proudly with my head held high caused by the extra layers in my wallet while the non working musicians stand at the back of the club pointing and jeering...lol
Click to expand...

most of the people that i like chatting to all play ekits... rabb sawka etc
i just love the technology behind it. if people wanna say "ekits are shit" then thats cool man, they just dont need to bother coming to one of my shows because they'll hate it.
 
toddy said:
most of the people that i like chatting to all play ekits... rabb sawka etc
i just love the technology behind it. if people wanna say "ekits are shit" then thats cool man, they just dont need to bother coming to one of my shows because they'll hate it.
Click to expand...

Well I would come if you lived closer. :)
 
Just don't push too hard for all this cool stuff. My buddy who does music scores for movies, and has his own recording studio uses his keyboard for all his drumming. He used to use me and others. :(
 
toddy said:
most of the people that i like chatting to all play ekits... rabb sawka etc
i just love the technology behind it. if people wanna say "ekits are shit" then thats cool man, they just dont need to bother coming to one of my shows because they'll hate it.
Click to expand...
Nah, I agree the technology and sound are great. For the music I am playing I have found that most bands that I am trying to work with will only accept an acoustic kit. Keep in mind we're just a bunch of old classic rockers so I don't expect them to embrace an ekit with such an open mind. I have to say I was surprised when first getting back into it though, I really thought they would be more accepted.

From a playability standpoint, I also agree that they are WAY easier to play than acoustic drums, their size and really tight mesh heads really seem to make a difference. The processed compressed sounds are wonderful too, my only real drawback with them is that single stroke roles on the snare sound like a machine gun and very unnatural.
 
toddy said:
your opinion is the lowest form of bacteria i've seen on this forum for a while, good job!
Click to expand...


Why so angry?

You love and stand behind your investments.To the point that you have admitted to stalking "several" forums in their defense in order to justify them,yet to become so defensive is no form a representation of the art...it is nothing more than another of the few percent who take music as a reason to be competitive.Yet you have taken it so far,that you shun the very foundation of the art you perform.

Bacteria?If that helps you justify it,but like it or not,even with my kit ran through top of the line Superior drummer software and the kit tweaked to sensitivity levels that match most acoustic kits...its still just a toy,and like any toy your kids no longer play with,you have to toss it aside and replace it with the new toys.

I mean you seem pissed at people who run marathons,when its so much easier to do the 26 miles on your bicycle.Thats what I hear from you.Yea sure its a great bicycle im sure...but its a marathon goofy.You can run up to the trophy table afterwards asking for your blue ribbon,but youll just be looked at silly.

Hence once again the title of the thread.....you get about a two on the getting taken seriously meter with an e-kit,not because of any possible skills you may possess,but because of the visual of you politicking your choice to people after the show until youre so angry that you have to get home and find several forums to seek out more people who oppose it.Otherwise youd get a one.The extra point is strictly a spazz point.
 
toddy said:
I'll be honest. If you were born in the 70's then it's probably time to give up the ghost as far as technology goes and stick to the acoustic. Let the younger ones carry on and innovate
Click to expand...

You are out of your mind if you feel age is the determining factor for the ability to innovate. Your prejudice and narrow mindedness seems similar to those who won't even consider the ekit as a viable instrument.
 
To me they are both different and viable instruments.

The acoustic is the basis of my setup, but I've used electronics as needed, and they came in very handy. Mostly as pads set up around the acoustic kit, but sometimes a totally electronic setup. Since these days you can pretty much get any sound onto pads from a sampler/computer/drum set brain with memory card, it should not make a huge difference how costly your E kit is. In fact, my pads are ancient, and I am not even sure of the brand. (A friend gave them to me.) Still, I used them on numerous big gigs, feeding them sounds from an Akai sampler, and they did a great job. The musicians around never seemed to care how expensive the kit was, only that the sounds and grooves were there.

Most musicians view the Acoustic as the main thing, where drummers are coming from, and Electronic is a bonus - and I'm glad it is that way.
One thing that I don't get is the electronic drums that look like acoustic drums, with "double heads", etc. It takes away the benefit of increased portability that pads have.

:)
 
Originally Posted by bog_72

Like said earlier,one step from being karaoke.
Click to expand...


(Insert your favorite singer) singing karaoke is going to sound great.


With Edrums, you still have to hit the pads at the right time.
 
New Tricks said:
(Insert your favorite singer) singing karaoke is going to sound great.


With Edrums, you still have to hit the pads at the right time.
Click to expand...

Sure, but being a musician is so much more than just "hitting the pads at the right time."

Touch, nuance, tuning... All of the elements that elevate drumming beyond just hitting things are completely taken out of the player's control by electronic drums. No matter how great your timing is you're allowing your sound to be dictated by a sound module and the drastic limitations of what passes for dynamic control.

I'm not saying there aren't applications where electronic drums aren't appropriate or useful but if the question is about being "taken seriously" as a musician there just aren't enough actual musical skills on display if you limit yourself to just hitting pads.
 
Winston_Wolf said:
Sure, but being a musician is so much more than just "hitting the pads at the right time."

Touch, nuance, tuning... All of the elements that elevate drumming beyond just hitting things are completely taken out of the player's control by electronic drums. No matter how great your timing is you're allowing your sound to be dictated by a sound module and the drastic limitations of what passes for dynamic control.

I'm not saying there aren't applications where electronic drums aren't appropriate or useful but if the question is about being "taken seriously" as a musician there just aren't enough actual musical skills on display if you limit yourself to just hitting pads.
Click to expand...

I dont understand where your coming from with that, there is more to paying an e kit than just hitting pads the same as there is more to playing acoustic than just hitting heads, you can pick from thousands of different samples the same as you can pick thousands of drum sizes and wood or just record your own samples form your acoustic kit if you actually need them to sound the same, a true musician is not just gonna play a stock e kit the same as he would not just play a stock A kit, he is gonna change things and customize till he/she finds whats right for them. With a mesh head kit you are still gonna tune for feel and stick rebound. As for electronic drums not sounding exactly like A drums well they can if you actually record A drum sounds and use them but then again does an E guitar sound like an A guitar, no, or an E violin, or an E cello, or an E piano, do any of them sound exactly like the A version, the answer is no, they can be close but not exact, I believe the whole point is to be able to have different sounds to use where and when we feel, dont guitar players have different types of guitars and different strings, pickups, pedals and amps to customize the particular sound they want. Drummers seem to be the most resistant to technology and change and if it stays this way we will get left behind and I am seeing it already as I have stated earlier I am already starting to loose gigs to the drummers with $2500 E kits because my $12000+ A kit is not versatile enough.
 
tard said:
I dont understand where your coming from with that, there is more to paying an e kit than just hitting pads the same as there is more to playing acoustic than just hitting heads, you can pick from thousands of different samples the same as you can pick thousands of drum sizes and wood or just record your own samples form your acoustic kit if you actually need them to sound the same, a true musician is not just gonna play a stock e kit the same as he would not just play a stock A kit, he is gonna change things and customize till he/she finds whats right for them. With a mesh head kit you are still gonna tune for feel and stick rebound. As for electronic drums not sounding exactly like A drums well they can if you actually record A drum sounds and use them but then again does an E guitar sound like an A guitar, no, or an E violin, or an E cello, or an E piano, do any of them sound exactly like the A version, the answer is no, they can be close but not exact, I believe the whole point is to be able to have different sounds to use where and when we feel, dont guitar players have different types of guitars and different strings, pickups, pedals and amps to customize the particular sound they want. Drummers seem to be the most resistant to technology and change and if it stays this way we will get left behind and I am seeing it already as I have stated earlier I am already starting to loose gigs to the drummers with $2500 E kits because my $12000+ A kit is not versatile enough.
Click to expand...

Hey. Not to be an ass or anything but I've only seen one coverband around here use an E-kit. Granted , I'm not part of that scene anymore but I know a lot of drummers that are and they never use E-kits. I don't understand how you could be losing gigs to guys with E-kits.

Also where are these 2000 + seat cabarets in N.S. or N.B. ? The largest bars I know of only have a capacity of 800.
 
bigbang said:
Hey. Not to be an ass or anything but I've only seen one cover band around here use an E-kit. Granted , I'm not part of that scene anymore but I know a lot of drummers that are and they never use E-kits. I don't understand how you could be losing gigs to guys with E-kits.

Also where are these 2000 + seat cabarets in N.S. or N.B. ? The largest bars I know of only have a capacity of 800.
Click to expand...

Like I said earlier there are several bands now that have gone to e kits with the bass DI to the board and the guitar players using synth access guitars, and in ear monitors with no sound on stage other than vocals, even the big name bands I have seen at the stadiums and casinos are using acoustic kits (for the look) with mesh heads and triggers and dont make a sound (other than the acoustic cymbals) during sound check till the FOH is turned up and I have tried out for 3 bands since july and all 3 hired e kit players, One band told me not to even bother coming to the audition once they found out I only had an acoustic kit. BTW I said these e kit guys are playing anything from 150 seat bars to 2000+ seat cabarets ,and although closed now Smooth Hermans held about 2200 on a big night back when we used to play there, and the Roseland could push close to 2000 when both floors are packed. Also I just didnt mean locally venues either as its starting to happen in a lot of places and you might not be seeing it as many are using acoustic looking kits with mesh heads and triggers, even 10 years ago there were a couple touring tribute bands using the technology. All im saying is if we dont embrace some of the technology we may get left behind. Drums are basically the last of the fully acoustic instruments. The wife and I went to a dinner theater several months ago and one musician even had some sort of e flute, he played sax and piano with it, and I just saw the 2 guys that played smooth criminal on cellos several months ago were on the Ellen show yesterday and are now using E cellos. Im not saying E drums will replace A drums, the same as E guitars will never replace A guitars but if you you only have one or the other you are limiting yourself as a musician, I mean how many guitar players do you know that dont have at least 1 of each? In a world where DJ's can sell now out stadiums with there techno remixes we better start to learn to adapt and reevaluate our methods and sounds and be less 1 dimensional with technology that is.
 
Last edited:
bog_72 said:
Why so angry?

You love and stand behind your investments.To the point that you have admitted to stalking "several" forums in their defense in order to justify them,yet to become so defensive is no form a representation of the art...it is nothing more than another of the few percent who take music as a reason to be competitive.Yet you have taken it so far,that you shun the very foundation of the art you perform.

Bacteria?If that helps you justify it,but like it or not,even with my kit ran through top of the line Superior drummer software and the kit tweaked to sensitivity levels that match most acoustic kits...its still just a toy,and like any toy your kids no longer play with,you have to toss it aside and replace it with the new toys.

I mean you seem pissed at people who run marathons,when its so much easier to do the 26 miles on your bicycle.Thats what I hear from you.Yea sure its a great bicycle im sure...but its a marathon goofy.You can run up to the trophy table afterwards asking for your blue ribbon,but youll just be looked at silly.

Hence once again the title of the thread.....you get about a two on the getting taken seriously meter with an e-kit,not because of any possible skills you may possess,but because of the visual of you politicking your choice to people after the show until youre so angry that you have to get home and find several forums to seek out more people who oppose it.Otherwise youd get a one.The extra point is strictly a spazz point.
Click to expand...

No Bog72. I said I don't stalk forums like hitler. I merely post and give my opinion. Take it if you like, don't if you don't.

I don't know what your points system is, I'm not sure it matters. at the end of the day I am a fairly decent drummer (for my age) and I enjoy using e-drums. I also own 4 acoustic kits. I merely enjoy anything to do with percussion.

How about the people who take little hybrid kits (made out of random objects) down to tube stations and busk. are you telling me that those people aren't playing drums?
I don't think you are. Because I am a nice person I don't randomly infer that people are talking crap on forums (see you keep telling me what I am saying, which is actually in most cases the complete opposite).

That said, from the usefulness of your previous posts I think it would be wise for me to employ this guy to clean up after you;

a97180_g119_7-poop-scooping.jpg
 
tard said:
Like I said earlier there are several bands now that have gone to e kits with the bass DI to the board and the guitar players using synth access guitars, and in ear monitors with no sound on stage other than vocals, even the big name bands I have seen at the stadiums and casinos are using acoustic kits (for the look) with mesh heads and triggers and dont make a sound (other than the acoustic cymbals) during sound check till the FOH is turned out and I have tried out for 3 bands since july and all 3 hired e kit players, One band told me not to even bother coming to the audition once they found out I only had an acoustic kit. BTW I said these e kit guys are playing anything from 150 seat bars to 2000+ seat cabarets ,and although closed now Smooth Hermans held about 2200 on a big night back when we used to play there, and the Roseland could push close to 2000 when both floors are packed. Also I just didnt mean locally venues either as its starting to happen in a lot of places and you might not be seeing it as many are using acoustic looking kits with mesh heads and triggers, even 10 years ago there were a couple touring tribute bands using the technology. All im saying is if we dont embrace some of the technology we may get left behind. Drums are basically the last of the fully acoustic instruments. The wife and I went to a dinner theater several months ago and one musician even had some sort of e flute, he played sax and piano with it, and I just saw the 2 guys that played smooth criminal on cellos several months ago were on the Ellen show yesterday and are now using E cellos. Im not saying E drums will replace A drums, the same as E guitars will never replace A guitars but if you you only have one or the other you are limiting yourself as a musician, I mean how many guitar players do you know that dont have at least 1 of each? In a world where DJ's can sell now out stadiums with there techno remixes we better start to learn to adapt and reevaluate our methods and sounds and be less 1 dimensional with technology that is.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...Well , I guess I don't see it. I do know that the industry around N.S. and N.B. and P.E.I. are pretty much purists ( excluding coverbands ). E-kits will never fly around these parts ( unless you do electronica type stuff ) and I don't see it happening in the future. This is FACT...not my opinion.
I guess all I can say is , if you're losing out on gigs because you don't have an e-kit...then get one.
Also , get the hell out of Springhill ! :)
 
All I know is that when I go to see a band and the drummer is playing electronic drums, I am majorly disappointed in a big way. I think it's a hundred times harder to make an acoustic set sound great, and it also sounds 100 times better. It's a real skill to be able to play a set of drums dynamically.
To me it's like watching a pole vaulter with a spring loaded pole. Sure he get's over the bar, but he's not nearly as accomplished as the guy without the spring loaded pole, and the whole experience is....just way diluted. I'm not OK with that. I won't just clap politely. I want those guys to put in the work on their instruments. THAT'S what makes music great, the hard work that humans put into it. You can't circumvent that without diluting the end product to the point of mediocrity.

Drums are supposed to be hard, that's why they are great. It's the experience and touch required to get a great tone that is lost on the electronics. The way a person touches their drums helps define them as a player. With electronics, that takes that out of the equation, which to me, is like pushing a button and having a machine paint the Mona Lisa. Where's the skill?
 
Last edited:
that's fair enough larry. like i said if you don't like them that's cool. some people still hate electric guitars.
the only thing I find slightly irritating is when people say we (i.e. me & tard or anybody else) shouldn't be allowed to do whatever we want to do. with electronic drums, or whatever it is.
 
Oh for the people who like them, more power to them. They serve definite purpose. I'm sure they are fun, and it does beat not playing anything at all. Everything is not for everybody. I don't want to see them go away. Because the more drummers that embrace them, I feel the more valuable my skills become. I'm probably way off there, but at least let me delude myself in peace lol.
 
toddy said:
that's fair enough larry. like i said if you don't like them that's cool. some people still hate electric guitars.
the only thing I find slightly irritating is when people say we (i.e. me & tard or anybody else) shouldn't be allowed to do whatever we want to do. with electronic drums, or whatever it is.
Click to expand...
It's hard to overlook this comparison, it really is dead on. Acoustic guitars are harder to play, more nuanced and requires a physical rather than fabricated touch. That being said, having moved and gotten used to the acoustic kit again it's like night and day in that the ekit really felt like a toy. Not to put the ekit down though, I know it has its place and I can only see it becoming more popular. I'm just an old codger who prefers a more traditional sound and feel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top