Getting taken seriously with an ekit

tard

Gold Member
You get me wrong dude....absolutly learn and work with the technology !
I do actually use a couple of pads in my set up depending on the gig, but I can always find a way to work them in..heheh
Funny you should mention the Radial Pros....I was approached to endorse them many moons ago....at the Palace in Hally one night by the Peavy Rep. He kept telling me they sound great, and I kept saying they look like ass.....but , they did sound great.

P.S ... we both were on our way by then and I didn't get the endorsement
To bad you would have got a nice piece of drum history for free and as for the looks, its just the initial shock of not seeing lugs, once you get used to it, it actually looks natural to have a bridge and no lugs and kinda makes sense considering that drums are about the only percussion and or stringed instrument without a bridge. People still argue that Alex VH didnt play radials and that the big fat snare sound in "dont tell me what love can do" isnt an 1 3/4" thick maple rp1000 14x6 snare....lol, there is only one snare that sounds like that.
 
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bigbang

Pioneer Member
It was basically the same thing 12 years ago when I bought my radial pros and just because they didnt have lugs and were different, they were considered not real or just toys even tho thy sounded incredible people made fun of them and even when I would state that bands like Van Halen, Grand Funk Railroad and The Scorpions were playing the same radial pro drums people would say "yeh but their paid to play them" and I would say "yeh but arnt all the big names paid to play what they play" and I would get "thats different tho, they play real drums" and here we are 12 years later with a few companys now building lugless drums as their high end product and a couple more ready to release their own lines of lugless including a couple of the big names. I have a feeling a dozen years from now you will see the majority of working musicians going more of the way of the e kits and guitar synths, etc, even now music stores like Long and Mcquade rent almost as many e kits to gigging musicians as acoustic kits. All im saying is down the road you better to be able to play and use both equally well if you want to make a living at it and if you think all you need to do is just plug in a set of electrics and hit them to play them at their fullest potential then you are sadly mistaken.
You get me wrong dude....absolutly learn and work with the technology !
I do actually use a couple of pads in my set up depending on the gig, but I can always find a way to work them in..heheh
Funny you should mention the Radial Pros....I was approached to endorse them many moons ago....at the Palace in Hally one night by the Peavy Rep. He kept telling me they sound great, and I kept saying they look like ass.....but , they did sound great.

P.S ... we both were on our way by then and I didn't get the endorsement
 

tard

Gold Member
Um..No, won't happen...not with any serious artist around here. Coverbands ?...maybe you could get away with it. Two different animals.
Heart , Nazereth , Loverboy ??...I guess their just trying to stay current and relevent to today's music scene :):)
Nothing against Springhill. I guess we don't have a sense of humour about it.
You know what's fun to do in Nova Scotia?................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Move !
Also forgot to mention that even 10 years ago Joe Perry from Aerosmith and Richie Sambora from Bon Jovi were using roland vg88 guitar synths and their amps on stage were just for show and a multitude of guitar players are now using racks of effects instead of amps, its the way of the future, dont be fooled, its already happening.
 

tard

Gold Member
It was basically the same thing 12 years ago when I bought my radial pros and just because they didnt have lugs and were different, they were considered not real or just toys even tho thy sounded incredible people made fun of them and even when I would state that bands like Van Halen, Grand Funk Railroad and The Scorpions were playing the same radial pro drums people would say "yeh but their paid to play them" and I would say "yeh but arnt all the big names paid to play what they play" and I would get "thats different tho, they play real drums" and here we are 12 years later with a few companys now building lugless drums as their high end product and a couple more ready to release their own lines of lugless including a couple of the big names. I have a feeling a dozen years from now you will see the majority of working musicians going more of the way of the e kits and guitar synths, etc, even now music stores like Long and Mcquade rent almost as many e kits to gigging musicians as acoustic kits. All im saying is down the road you better to be able to play and use both equally well if you want to make a living at it and if you think all you need to do is just plug in a set of electrics and hit them to play them at their fullest potential then you are sadly mistaken.
 

bigbang

Pioneer Member
You dont see it happing in the future cause its already happening, I saw Heart, Nazereth and Loverboy all within the last year and they were all mesh head kits with triggers, yeh they looked like acoustic but it was smoke and mirrors, and as far as im concerned that makes them E kits. And BTW you got a problem with Springhill?
Um..No, won't happen...not with any serious artist around here. Coverbands ?...maybe you could get away with it. Two different animals.
Heart , Nazereth , Loverboy ??...I guess their just trying to stay current and relevent to today's music scene :):)
Nothing against Springhill. I guess we don't have a sense of humour about it.
You know what's fun to do in Nova Scotia?................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Move !
 

tard

Gold Member
All I know is that when I go to see a band and the drummer is playing electronic drums, I am majorly disappointed in a big way. I think it's a hundred times harder to make an acoustic set sound great, and it also sounds 100 times better. It's a real skill to be able to play a set of drums dynamically.
To me it's like watching a pole vaulter with a spring loaded pole. Sure he get's over the bar, but he's not nearly as accomplished as the guy without the spring loaded pole, and the whole experience is....just way diluted. I'm not OK with that. I won't just clap politely. I want those guys to put in the work on their instruments. THAT'S what makes music great, the hard work that humans put into it. You can't circumvent that without diluting the end product to the point of mediocrity.

Drums are supposed to be hard, that's why they are great. It's the experience and touch required to get a great tone that is lost on the electronics. The way a person touches their drums helps define them as a player. With electronics, that takes that out of the equation, which to me, is like pushing a button and having a machine paint the Mona Lisa. Where's the skill?
I bet you have seen acoustic drums and didnt realize they were mesh headed and triggered, just because they look like acoustic doesnt mean they are. You really think its harder to tune an acoustic set than to spend hundreds of hours recording different sounds or tweeking samples and rates to get each sound the way you want it for each particular song, I don`t. Maybe some guys buy a cheap e kit and just play it the way it is but the musicians I see using them are spending hundreds of hours tweeking and perfecting there instrument the same way guitar players play with pedals and amp sounds etc, trust me true musicians are not circumventing anything, there putting the work in and maybe even more.
 

tard

Gold Member
Hmmm...Well , I guess I don't see it. I do know that the industry around N.S. and N.B. and P.E.I. are pretty much purists ( excluding coverbands ). E-kits will never fly around these parts ( unless you do electronica type stuff ) and I don't see it happening in the future. This is FACT...not my opinion.
I guess all I can say is , if you're losing out on gigs because you don't have an e-kit...then get one.
Also , get the hell out of Springhill ! :)
You dont see it happing in the future cause its already happening, I saw Heart, Nazereth and Loverboy all within the last year and they were all mesh head kits with triggers, yeh they looked like acoustic but it was smoke and mirrors, and as far as im concerned that makes them E kits. And BTW you got a problem with Springhill?
 
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ericgtr

Member
that's fair enough larry. like i said if you don't like them that's cool. some people still hate electric guitars.
the only thing I find slightly irritating is when people say we (i.e. me & tard or anybody else) shouldn't be allowed to do whatever we want to do. with electronic drums, or whatever it is.
It's hard to overlook this comparison, it really is dead on. Acoustic guitars are harder to play, more nuanced and requires a physical rather than fabricated touch. That being said, having moved and gotten used to the acoustic kit again it's like night and day in that the ekit really felt like a toy. Not to put the ekit down though, I know it has its place and I can only see it becoming more popular. I'm just an old codger who prefers a more traditional sound and feel.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Oh for the people who like them, more power to them. They serve definite purpose. I'm sure they are fun, and it does beat not playing anything at all. Everything is not for everybody. I don't want to see them go away. Because the more drummers that embrace them, I feel the more valuable my skills become. I'm probably way off there, but at least let me delude myself in peace lol.
 

toddy

Platinum Member
that's fair enough larry. like i said if you don't like them that's cool. some people still hate electric guitars.
the only thing I find slightly irritating is when people say we (i.e. me & tard or anybody else) shouldn't be allowed to do whatever we want to do. with electronic drums, or whatever it is.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
All I know is that when I go to see a band and the drummer is playing electronic drums, I am majorly disappointed in a big way. I think it's a hundred times harder to make an acoustic set sound great, and it also sounds 100 times better. It's a real skill to be able to play a set of drums dynamically.
To me it's like watching a pole vaulter with a spring loaded pole. Sure he get's over the bar, but he's not nearly as accomplished as the guy without the spring loaded pole, and the whole experience is....just way diluted. I'm not OK with that. I won't just clap politely. I want those guys to put in the work on their instruments. THAT'S what makes music great, the hard work that humans put into it. You can't circumvent that without diluting the end product to the point of mediocrity.

Drums are supposed to be hard, that's why they are great. It's the experience and touch required to get a great tone that is lost on the electronics. The way a person touches their drums helps define them as a player. With electronics, that takes that out of the equation, which to me, is like pushing a button and having a machine paint the Mona Lisa. Where's the skill?
 
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bigbang

Pioneer Member
Like I said earlier there are several bands now that have gone to e kits with the bass DI to the board and the guitar players using synth access guitars, and in ear monitors with no sound on stage other than vocals, even the big name bands I have seen at the stadiums and casinos are using acoustic kits (for the look) with mesh heads and triggers and dont make a sound (other than the acoustic cymbals) during sound check till the FOH is turned out and I have tried out for 3 bands since july and all 3 hired e kit players, One band told me not to even bother coming to the audition once they found out I only had an acoustic kit. BTW I said these e kit guys are playing anything from 150 seat bars to 2000+ seat cabarets ,and although closed now Smooth Hermans held about 2200 on a big night back when we used to play there, and the Roseland could push close to 2000 when both floors are packed. Also I just didnt mean locally venues either as its starting to happen in a lot of places and you might not be seeing it as many are using acoustic looking kits with mesh heads and triggers, even 10 years ago there were a couple touring tribute bands using the technology. All im saying is if we dont embrace some of the technology we may get left behind. Drums are basically the last of the fully acoustic instruments. The wife and I went to a dinner theater several months ago and one musician even had some sort of e flute, he played sax and piano with it, and I just saw the 2 guys that played smooth criminal on cellos several months ago were on the Ellen show yesterday and are now using E cellos. Im not saying E drums will replace A drums, the same as E guitars will never replace A guitars but if you you only have one or the other you are limiting yourself as a musician, I mean how many guitar players do you know that dont have at least 1 of each? In a world where DJ's can sell now out stadiums with there techno remixes we better start to learn to adapt and reevaluate our methods and sounds and be less 1 dimensional with technology that is.
Hmmm...Well , I guess I don't see it. I do know that the industry around N.S. and N.B. and P.E.I. are pretty much purists ( excluding coverbands ). E-kits will never fly around these parts ( unless you do electronica type stuff ) and I don't see it happening in the future. This is FACT...not my opinion.
I guess all I can say is , if you're losing out on gigs because you don't have an e-kit...then get one.
Also , get the hell out of Springhill ! :)
 

toddy

Platinum Member
Why so angry?

You love and stand behind your investments.To the point that you have admitted to stalking "several" forums in their defense in order to justify them,yet to become so defensive is no form a representation of the art...it is nothing more than another of the few percent who take music as a reason to be competitive.Yet you have taken it so far,that you shun the very foundation of the art you perform.

Bacteria?If that helps you justify it,but like it or not,even with my kit ran through top of the line Superior drummer software and the kit tweaked to sensitivity levels that match most acoustic kits...its still just a toy,and like any toy your kids no longer play with,you have to toss it aside and replace it with the new toys.

I mean you seem pissed at people who run marathons,when its so much easier to do the 26 miles on your bicycle.Thats what I hear from you.Yea sure its a great bicycle im sure...but its a marathon goofy.You can run up to the trophy table afterwards asking for your blue ribbon,but youll just be looked at silly.

Hence once again the title of the thread.....you get about a two on the getting taken seriously meter with an e-kit,not because of any possible skills you may possess,but because of the visual of you politicking your choice to people after the show until youre so angry that you have to get home and find several forums to seek out more people who oppose it.Otherwise youd get a one.The extra point is strictly a spazz point.
No Bog72. I said I don't stalk forums like hitler. I merely post and give my opinion. Take it if you like, don't if you don't.

I don't know what your points system is, I'm not sure it matters. at the end of the day I am a fairly decent drummer (for my age) and I enjoy using e-drums. I also own 4 acoustic kits. I merely enjoy anything to do with percussion.

How about the people who take little hybrid kits (made out of random objects) down to tube stations and busk. are you telling me that those people aren't playing drums?
I don't think you are. Because I am a nice person I don't randomly infer that people are talking crap on forums (see you keep telling me what I am saying, which is actually in most cases the complete opposite).

That said, from the usefulness of your previous posts I think it would be wise for me to employ this guy to clean up after you;

 

tard

Gold Member
Hey. Not to be an ass or anything but I've only seen one cover band around here use an E-kit. Granted , I'm not part of that scene anymore but I know a lot of drummers that are and they never use E-kits. I don't understand how you could be losing gigs to guys with E-kits.

Also where are these 2000 + seat cabarets in N.S. or N.B. ? The largest bars I know of only have a capacity of 800.
Like I said earlier there are several bands now that have gone to e kits with the bass DI to the board and the guitar players using synth access guitars, and in ear monitors with no sound on stage other than vocals, even the big name bands I have seen at the stadiums and casinos are using acoustic kits (for the look) with mesh heads and triggers and dont make a sound (other than the acoustic cymbals) during sound check till the FOH is turned up and I have tried out for 3 bands since july and all 3 hired e kit players, One band told me not to even bother coming to the audition once they found out I only had an acoustic kit. BTW I said these e kit guys are playing anything from 150 seat bars to 2000+ seat cabarets ,and although closed now Smooth Hermans held about 2200 on a big night back when we used to play there, and the Roseland could push close to 2000 when both floors are packed. Also I just didnt mean locally venues either as its starting to happen in a lot of places and you might not be seeing it as many are using acoustic looking kits with mesh heads and triggers, even 10 years ago there were a couple touring tribute bands using the technology. All im saying is if we dont embrace some of the technology we may get left behind. Drums are basically the last of the fully acoustic instruments. The wife and I went to a dinner theater several months ago and one musician even had some sort of e flute, he played sax and piano with it, and I just saw the 2 guys that played smooth criminal on cellos several months ago were on the Ellen show yesterday and are now using E cellos. Im not saying E drums will replace A drums, the same as E guitars will never replace A guitars but if you you only have one or the other you are limiting yourself as a musician, I mean how many guitar players do you know that dont have at least 1 of each? In a world where DJ's can sell now out stadiums with there techno remixes we better start to learn to adapt and reevaluate our methods and sounds and be less 1 dimensional with technology that is.
 
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bigbang

Pioneer Member
I dont understand where your coming from with that, there is more to paying an e kit than just hitting pads the same as there is more to playing acoustic than just hitting heads, you can pick from thousands of different samples the same as you can pick thousands of drum sizes and wood or just record your own samples form your acoustic kit if you actually need them to sound the same, a true musician is not just gonna play a stock e kit the same as he would not just play a stock A kit, he is gonna change things and customize till he/she finds whats right for them. With a mesh head kit you are still gonna tune for feel and stick rebound. As for electronic drums not sounding exactly like A drums well they can if you actually record A drum sounds and use them but then again does an E guitar sound like an A guitar, no, or an E violin, or an E cello, or an E piano, do any of them sound exactly like the A version, the answer is no, they can be close but not exact, I believe the whole point is to be able to have different sounds to use where and when we feel, dont guitar players have different types of guitars and different strings, pickups, pedals and amps to customize the particular sound they want. Drummers seem to be the most resistant to technology and change and if it stays this way we will get left behind and I am seeing it already as I have stated earlier I am already starting to loose gigs to the drummers with $2500 E kits because my $12000+ A kit is not versatile enough.
Hey. Not to be an ass or anything but I've only seen one coverband around here use an E-kit. Granted , I'm not part of that scene anymore but I know a lot of drummers that are and they never use E-kits. I don't understand how you could be losing gigs to guys with E-kits.

Also where are these 2000 + seat cabarets in N.S. or N.B. ? The largest bars I know of only have a capacity of 800.
 

tard

Gold Member
Sure, but being a musician is so much more than just "hitting the pads at the right time."

Touch, nuance, tuning... All of the elements that elevate drumming beyond just hitting things are completely taken out of the player's control by electronic drums. No matter how great your timing is you're allowing your sound to be dictated by a sound module and the drastic limitations of what passes for dynamic control.

I'm not saying there aren't applications where electronic drums aren't appropriate or useful but if the question is about being "taken seriously" as a musician there just aren't enough actual musical skills on display if you limit yourself to just hitting pads.
I dont understand where your coming from with that, there is more to paying an e kit than just hitting pads the same as there is more to playing acoustic than just hitting heads, you can pick from thousands of different samples the same as you can pick thousands of drum sizes and wood or just record your own samples form your acoustic kit if you actually need them to sound the same, a true musician is not just gonna play a stock e kit the same as he would not just play a stock A kit, he is gonna change things and customize till he/she finds whats right for them. With a mesh head kit you are still gonna tune for feel and stick rebound. As for electronic drums not sounding exactly like A drums well they can if you actually record A drum sounds and use them but then again does an E guitar sound like an A guitar, no, or an E violin, or an E cello, or an E piano, do any of them sound exactly like the A version, the answer is no, they can be close but not exact, I believe the whole point is to be able to have different sounds to use where and when we feel, dont guitar players have different types of guitars and different strings, pickups, pedals and amps to customize the particular sound they want. Drummers seem to be the most resistant to technology and change and if it stays this way we will get left behind and I am seeing it already as I have stated earlier I am already starting to loose gigs to the drummers with $2500 E kits because my $12000+ A kit is not versatile enough.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
(Insert your favorite singer) singing karaoke is going to sound great.


With Edrums, you still have to hit the pads at the right time.
Sure, but being a musician is so much more than just "hitting the pads at the right time."

Touch, nuance, tuning... All of the elements that elevate drumming beyond just hitting things are completely taken out of the player's control by electronic drums. No matter how great your timing is you're allowing your sound to be dictated by a sound module and the drastic limitations of what passes for dynamic control.

I'm not saying there aren't applications where electronic drums aren't appropriate or useful but if the question is about being "taken seriously" as a musician there just aren't enough actual musical skills on display if you limit yourself to just hitting pads.
 

New Tricks

Platinum Member
Originally Posted by bog_72

Like said earlier,one step from being karaoke.

(Insert your favorite singer) singing karaoke is going to sound great.


With Edrums, you still have to hit the pads at the right time.
 

Ami

Senior Member
To me they are both different and viable instruments.

The acoustic is the basis of my setup, but I've used electronics as needed, and they came in very handy. Mostly as pads set up around the acoustic kit, but sometimes a totally electronic setup. Since these days you can pretty much get any sound onto pads from a sampler/computer/drum set brain with memory card, it should not make a huge difference how costly your E kit is. In fact, my pads are ancient, and I am not even sure of the brand. (A friend gave them to me.) Still, I used them on numerous big gigs, feeding them sounds from an Akai sampler, and they did a great job. The musicians around never seemed to care how expensive the kit was, only that the sounds and grooves were there.

Most musicians view the Acoustic as the main thing, where drummers are coming from, and Electronic is a bonus - and I'm glad it is that way.
One thing that I don't get is the electronic drums that look like acoustic drums, with "double heads", etc. It takes away the benefit of increased portability that pads have.

:)
 

NC68

Senior Member
I'll be honest. If you were born in the 70's then it's probably time to give up the ghost as far as technology goes and stick to the acoustic. Let the younger ones carry on and innovate
You are out of your mind if you feel age is the determining factor for the ability to innovate. Your prejudice and narrow mindedness seems similar to those who won't even consider the ekit as a viable instrument.
 
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