Kick Drum Miking Question

IDDrummer said:
I'm not a recording expert by any stretch, but I can say I've never gotten MORE low end tone from porting. More attack and an airier note, yes. I've never experienced the kind of change from low volume to high volume that you're describing.

At one point, I did a recording of nothing but the kick with the mic positioned in different places, with a ported and unported head. I did internal, close to the beater, internal with the mic closer to the reso and angled (these were done with ported and unported heads using a Kelly Shu), mic in various locations and distances from an unported head, and the mic at various depths just inside to outside the port. Also mic on the batter head. I've long since lost the recording, but my favorite sounds were with the internal mic angled, and with the mic on the batter head. With the port, the best sound by far was with the mic peeking just inside, maybe 1/2 inch. Mic was a D6, and all gain levels were approx the same. But at no time did I notice the phenomenon you're describing.

I'm curious to see what your results are with the ported head.
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Using a Shu system is kind of an apples to oranges comparison. I couldn't imagine any possible gain from porting with an internal system. The one advantage that porting gives is that there are a lot of artificial low frequencies created by the air column as it exits the port. This, to me, is the ideal placement for a mic like the D6. It's pre-eq'd to accentuate attack. Placing it close to the beater is overkill. At the port, with the grill completely inside, it gets ample amounts of attack, but also takes advantage of those artificial sub frequencies.
 
MoreBeer said:
I've noticed that when I'm recording my drumming and playing more gently, such as when the wife and dog are home, the kick drum sounds great. Very thick with an excellent lower-end thump when listening to what I just played.
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Are you sure you're not burying the beater when playing loud but feathering it a bit to play quieter? That could account for the tone difference.
 
The SunDog said:
Using a Shu system is kind of an apples to oranges comparison. I couldn't imagine any possible gain from porting with an internal system. The one advantage that porting gives is that there are a lot of artificial low frequencies created by the air column as it exits the port. This, to me, is the ideal placement for a mic like the D6. It's pre-eq'd to accentuate attack. Placing it close to the beater is overkill. At the port, with the grill completely inside, it gets ample amounts of attack, but also takes advantage of those artificial sub frequencies.
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I agree. I'm a "show-me" kinda guy, though, so I tried it for myself. I had all the stuff on hand.
 
KamaK said:
If you're going to hit your kick hard with an unported reso, angle the mic so it doesn't face directly at the head (~30 deg). Not only does this reduce the SPL, you get a wider range of tone as you're effectively mic'ing more of the head.

Option 2 is to back the mic off another 1-3".

Ultimately, you will own one unported, and one ported head, and switch out depending on the sound you desire.
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Sorry to derail the thread....I have a related question. My kick isn't ported, and we sometimes seem to be getting some feedback from the kick mic. I'm wondering if this tip mentioned above might help mitigate that feedback, as well? We're using a Beta 52, so the quality of the mic isn't the issue...
 
I run a D6 on a Shu mounted dead center and pointed at the beater. Absolutely slays our subwoofers. The consistency night after night is ridiculous. Any room, any temp, always ready for more. My 22" has a 4" port to access the short cord attached.

Head choice is paramount. I use an Emad and a DrumArt Aquarian Regulator reso. I've got center muffling on the reso where flutter can occur and I've got tone control on the batter where feel and give are critical.

Then a dogbone pillow not touching the heads to absorb reflections. I can take this formula to nearly any size and depth bass drum with near instant success.
 
I guess I'm the scream fire in a crowded theatre type of guy. After further experimentation I've got the sound I want at normal playing levels. Mostly due to Larry.

I moved the mic yet further from the reso head, about 14" and just about 1/3 into the edge of the drum but straight on with no angle. Then....the magic happened when increasing the gain a bit further on the drum mic channel to compensate for the added distance. Presto! Smooth, deep, round, defined bass! Holy cow, I feel like an idiot. LMAO!

When playing softer, just move the mic in to about 8" or so and we're all good.

I then started jerking around with the position of the overheads. Moved one more towards the rear and directly above the 21" ride, 18" crash and the 2 floor toms. Right smack in the dead-center of that cluster. The other I positioned somewhat similar on the snare side. I also lowered them about 3" or so and angled them up just ever-so-slightly. The overhead adjustment made a big difference.

The overall sound now is vastly improved and more defined. Still need to experiment further as I'm new to this recording thing.

Thanks again for the suggestions!

New kick mic placement.
01-kick-mic-2.jpg
 
The cAD mics are horrible. Switch to a well known kick mic (I use D6) and your problem will be gone and you'll enjoy a nice kick sound as well.
 
drum4fun27302 said:
The cAD mics are horrible. Switch to a well known kick mic (I use D6) and your problem will be gone and you'll enjoy a nice kick sound as well.
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For now, it sounds fine to me. Have been pissing away a ton of cash lately on this new venture. Better mics are down the road for me, maybe this summer. I only do this as a hobby, not professionally. So if my results are okay, and sound good enough for me to enjoy, I'm cool with that....currently, at least.

The kick sounds great (now). I do agree on the CAD mics though. The drums are all using them and they really don't pick them up as well as I'd like. I'm pleased with the overheads however. For cheaper mics, AT2020's, they do a great job. I won't be upgrading those.
 
MoreBeer said:
I guess I'm the scream fire in a crowded theatre type of guy. After further experimentation I've got the sound I want at normal playing levels. Mostly due to Larry.

I moved the mic yet further from the reso head, about 14" and just about 1/3 into the edge of the drum but straight on with no angle. Then....the magic happened when increasing the gain a bit further on the drum mic channel to compensate for the added distance. Presto! Smooth, deep, round, defined bass! Holy cow, I feel like an idiot. LMAO!

When playing softer, just move the mic in to about 8" or so and we're all good.

I then started jerking around with the position of the overheads. Moved one more towards the rear and directly above the 21" ride, 18" crash and the 2 floor toms. Right smack in the dead-center of that cluster. The other I positioned somewhat similar on the snare side. I also lowered them about 3" or so and angled them up just ever-so-slightly. The overhead adjustment made a big difference.

The overall sound now is vastly improved and more defined. Still need to experiment further as I'm new to this recording thing.

Thanks again for the suggestions!

New kick mic placement.
01-kick-mic-2.jpg
Click to expand...

I just put my un-ported reso head back on my Renown's. Did a little recording with mic in the middle toward the side were you generally see a port. And get this, how does this compare to what you are getting.
https://soundcloud.com/john-highfield-822998935/renown-walnut2
 
MoreBeer said:
I've also changed my mind about the type of ported reso I'm ordering. Just going with a plain vanilla 5" hole with no plastic ring or other crap. Probably an Evans EQ3 Black.
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Some quick info on the EQ3 is the black variety is 10mil and the White ones are 7.5.
I don't know why they mix things up like that with the same name but with a different thickness.
 
Destroyer772 said:
I just put my un-ported reso head back on my Renown's. Did a little recording with mic in the middle toward the side were you generally see a port. And get this, how does this compare to what you are getting.
https://soundcloud.com/john-highfield-822998935/renown-walnut2
Click to expand...


I just checked out your recording (with headphones). The kick seems to have more of a choked, shorter sound than mine, at least as mine sounds now with the mic further back and the gain slightly higher. Prior to that, my kick sounded like crap on a recording when playing with any force. It was basically a pop with a touch of bass.

Yours actually sounds similar to mine prior to making the most recent adjustments on mic distance, placement and gain settings. I’m getting more of a thicker, deeper thump now. It sounds quite good. I still did order the ported head and am going to give that a shot as well. I’ll try and put up an audio file a.s.a.p. and post to this thread. Possibly by Monday.
 
MoreBeer said:
I just checked out your recording (with headphones). The kick seems to have more of a choked, shorter sound than mine, at least as mine sounds now with the mic further back and the gain slightly higher. Prior to that, my kick sounded like crap on a recording when playing with any force. It was basically a pop with a touch of bass.

Yours actually sounds similar to mine prior to making the most recent adjustments on mic distance, placement and gain settings. I’m getting more of a thicker, deeper thump now. It sounds quite good. I still did order the ported head and am going to give that a shot as well. I’ll try and put up an audio file a.s.a.p. and post to this thread. Possibly by Monday.
Click to expand...

I dont get good results with unported either. Mine was about 3in out, will try your new method tomorrow.
 
Did you do any acoustic treatments to your room yet? Bass trapping will help focus the lower frequencies in your room, undoubtedly improving the sound of your bass drum. Due to the increased mass from installing 3 layers of drywall on both the inner and outer leaves of my room, there are so many low frequencies being reflected back and cancelling each other out that even my 26" bass drum has no low end boom in the room at all, just a flat, plasticky-sounding slap. Floor to ceiling corner superchunk bass traps and heavily treating the ceiling should fix that.
 
MoreBeer said:
I guess I'm the scream fire in a crowded theatre type of guy. After further experimentation I've got the sound I want at normal playing levels. Mostly due to Larry.

I moved the mic yet further from the reso head, about 14" and just about 1/3 into the edge of the drum but straight on with no angle. Then....the magic happened when increasing the gain a bit further on the drum mic channel to compensate for the added distance. Presto! Smooth, deep, round, defined bass! Holy cow, I feel like an idiot. LMAO!

When playing softer, just move the mic in to about 8" or so and we're all good.

I then started jerking around with the position of the overheads. Moved one more towards the rear and directly above the 21" ride, 18" crash and the 2 floor toms. Right smack in the dead-center of that cluster. The other I positioned somewhat similar on the snare side. I also lowered them about 3" or so and angled them up just ever-so-slightly. The overhead adjustment made a big difference.

The overall sound now is vastly improved and more defined. Still need to experiment further as I'm new to this recording thing.

Thanks again for the suggestions!

New kick mic placement.
01-kick-mic-2.jpg
Click to expand...
Did you ever try kick side mic'ing? Like I mentioned, it's what I used to do, and it works for other drums. Just curious.
 
mike d said:
I'm curious about this method too. That's what I used to do years ago, but haven't mic'd for a while. Anyone using batter side only mic?
Click to expand...

You get a lot of snare bleeding through.
 
Destroyer772 said:
I dont get good results with unported either. Mine was about 3in out, will try your new method tomorrow.
Click to expand...

3" off the reso is definitely WAY to close. I discovered the mistakes of too closely miking a non-ported kick drum the hard way and was pounding my head against the wall for days.

Must try different distances, angles, heights, etc. I do have a feeling however that my kick drum mic is somehow, someway, possibly, more sensitive to sound pressure levels than identical mics of the same make. To me, for a dynamic mic, it seems very quirky and "just the right spot" was needed. Who knows? Maybe its just how these particular mics are? Although I doubt it as the subject would have been brought up somewhere at some point.

But now, with it way out in front with increased gain, it sounds great. And if playing more softly, I just move it in somewhat.
 
Ghostnote said:
Did you do any acoustic treatments to your room yet? Bass trapping will help focus the lower frequencies in your room, undoubtedly improving the sound of your bass drum.
Click to expand...

The acoustics of my room suck. Its very bright and loud as its in an unfinished area of the basement. I have some rugs down, that's about it. I have another new rug I bought last month that is waiting to go on the wall in front of the set. Possibly that'll help a bit more. Also planning on insulating the ceiling joists in the drum area with rock wool when time allows.
 
MoreBeer said:
3" off the reso is definitely WAY to close.
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For that particular mic ;-)

Dynamic mics are like old manual focus cameras. You can move them in and out and bring different sonic elements into focus via proximity effect. You can angle them and use rejection to cut out undesirable elements. Gain is like an exposure setting of sorts. Every mic is going to have its own personality and set of quirks.

One of the reasons I went for an e602 (~$100 used) was because it seems to like unported heads at ~4". While I'm sure this is an inaccurate generalization, but it feels more omnidirectional than a B52 or D6. If you ever have the opportunity to borrow one from a friend, give it a spin.


Out of curiosity, which KBM412 do you have?

Frequency Response:25Hz - 15 kHz Sensitivity:-85 dB
or
Frequency Response:30Hz – 12KHz Sensitivity:-66 dBV
 
The SunDog said:
Mic'ing a ported drum will yield (imo) vastly greater results. Port it and screw that goofy kick port idea. A plastic cone? Get a bigger bass drum if you want some low end thump. The "pop" you're experiencing? I dunno. You'be definitely got something going on there when you kick harder. Just because you can't hear it when your playing doesn't mean it's not there. The more sensitive ear in the room (I mean the mic) can. I can't hear my pedal spring squeak when I play, but an AKG d112 sure can. As far as the Shure 91, meh...Beta 52, Audix d6, AKG d112 are all better choices for a solo kick mic. Two mics, one in one out, is better yet. GL
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"Goofy?" Well, I wish I had invented the bloody thing (Kick Port, that is....) I'd be RICH! They really do work, they concentrate the lows coming out of the port.

Also, you guys that want to mike the unported reso head, know this.....when I worked for a pro sound outfit, we had an issue with that, it results in the head being too close to the mike, and the mike wants to "bottom out" more, resulting in distortion. If you do that, put some space between the head and the mike.
 
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