want to do metal double bass (200 bpm+), no idea where to start

[ermghoti]

The best way to explain it is....
A long distance runner doesn't train (to run a 25 mile race) the same way a sprint runner trains.
Why would a long distance runner work on being fast for short periods... if his goal is to run as long and steady as he can?
Wouldn't it make more sense for him to train for distance... since that's what he will be running?

But we're talking about the opposite. A sprinter certainly does learn how to come off the blocks in slow motion, for instance. After the practice becomes second nature, it will be muscle memory, whether it was learned properly or not is another story. The distance runner does, indeed, need endurance, and so do drummers. But, if you have a flaw in your stride (or your stroke), building up endurance will be of limited utility.

Why do most of us drummers think we are going to end up with permanent damage from swinging a 16 once stick?

When I first started, my grip was pretty flawed, and since I was practicing on a rubber-padded eKit, I quickly got disturbing wrist pain. I very nearly quit, but lessons have straightened me out. Another drummer I know, despite being pretty good, gets blisters easily, until he develops gnarly callouses (he goes back and forth from guitar to drums periodically), because he doesn't use the fulcrum properly, and has to death-grip to avoid losing the stick (IMO).

The way I fixed myself (and the way the other guy is not fixing himself) was to go to at about one stroke per two seconds, watching the rebound, observing how I controlled the stroke, comparing my left and right hands, the position of my arms, my posture. A bunch of things I wasn't noticing playing at speed, concerning myself with maintaining tempo and groove.

There are construction workers that swing 2 pound hammers for 30 years of their life...without complaint of hurting themselves... other than maybe a smashed thumb!

I also met a guy who worked as a roofer for one summer, and had carpal tunnel the rest of his life. Repetitive impacts, even fairly gentle ones, can quickly ruin a joint.

I think we drummers worry too much about that type of thing and use it for a crutch for "not reaching" our goals.
"My technique isn't right....that's why I can't play what X drummer does".

Or, is it that X drummer just spent more time playing his drums?

D.

Of course. I think we've established earlier that you view "working on technique" as a belief that learning a new way of playing magically opens the road forward. I'd suggest that your description or "using physical principles" is what many of us mean when we say "work on technique."

I can't believe you guys are trying to argue with Derek Roddy.

I could assemble a list of legendary drummers and instructors that I am agreeing with. Morello, GL Stone, and Jojo Mayer come to mind without any effort, but this isn't a name-dropping competition. If Derek's ideas are inherently better than what I have been doing so far, I'll adopt them, but I have yet to be convinced.

 

[Jeff Almeyda]

Derek's way is how most of us metal drummers did it. I used to play along to Reign in Blood until I couldn't move my legs anymore.

For me and my generation the first fast double kick song was "Fast as a Shark" by Accept. We just jumped in and tried it and just got faster from there. We pretty much ran on the pedals

Years later, as I polished my technique, I started slowing everything down to "fine tune" it. I began to get more results from less effort. But
the foundation came from just "jumping in the deep end"

BTW, All of the drumming injuries I see are hand and shoulder stuff. I've never seen anyone hurt their legs from a tiring double kick workout.

 

[Derek Roddy]

But we're talking about the opposite. A sprinter certainly does learn how to come off the blocks in slow motion, for instance. After the practice becomes second nature, it will be muscle memory, whether it was learned properly or not is another story. The distance runner does, indeed, need endurance, and so do drummers. But, if you have a flaw in your stride (or your stroke), building up endurance will be of limited utility.


When I first started, my grip was pretty flawed, and since I was practicing on a rubber-padded eKit, I quickly got disturbing wrist pain. I very nearly quit, but lessons have straightened me out. Another drummer I know, despite being pretty good, gets blisters easily, until he develops gnarly callouses (he goes back and forth from guitar to drums periodically), because he doesn't use the fulcrum properly, and has to death-grip to avoid losing the stick (IMO).

The way I fixed myself (and the way the other guy is not fixing himself) was to go to at about one stroke per two seconds, watching the rebound, observing how I controlled the stroke, comparing my left and right hands, the position of my arms, my posture. A bunch of things I wasn't noticing playing at speed, concerning myself with maintaining tempo and groove.



I also met a guy who worked as a roofer for one summer, and had carpal tunnel the rest of his life. Repetitive impacts, even fairly gentle ones, can quickly ruin a joint.



Of course. I think we've established earlier that you view "working on technique" as a belief that learning a new way of playing magically opens the road forward. I'd suggest that your description or "using physical principles" is what many of us mean when we say "work on technique."



I could assemble a list of legendary drummers and instructors that I am agreeing with. Morello, GL Stone, and Jojo Mayer come to mind without any effort, but this isn't a name-dropping competition. If Derek's ideas are inherently better than what I have been doing so far, I'll adopt them, but I have yet to be convinced.

I think you're missing the point here.
Yes, it is important to work on "technique", but what these guys are trying to achieve.....(endurance runs playing 16ths at 230 for minutes at a time)
takes training.....Not a technique.

The search for a technique that will allow you to do... what others spent 10 years to develop is bogus. There is not such a technique.

It's all mindset really.
The ones who get there....
get there by doing it, Not wanting to do it.
(Which is 9 times out of 10 what drummers say)...."I'd love to able to play 16ths at 220......."

So DO it.

Like I said before.....I'm where I want to be with speed and endurance.
I didn't get there by wanting to be there.....I did it by DOING it.

I had no lessons, No DVD's when I was a kid, and nobody to learn from where I grew up.
I was all alone....
Proving that learning all these "methods" and "techniques" are not a necessity.
True, the search for the perfect technique may benefit some ( this goes back to the "mindset" issue...if you believe they help you.....then they DO) but, they are not "necessary".

Funny, having never spent any time on techniques or technique...
I get a lot of compliments about how "good" mine is and questions about which ones I studied. Haha.

In all honesty, I believe these teachers (Morello, Gladstone, Stone, etc...) designed those "methods" to keep students.... students.
If those methods were the answer to the drumming problems we all have.....those teachers wouldn't have repeat business....in turn meaning.... that they wouldn't have any income.
In those days....that's how those guys supported themselves and their families.
Writing those classic books and teaching those classic methods.

They are great methods for learning drummers and always good to study for drummers of all ages....but, they are not "necessary" to make a great drummer.

Wanting to do something as physical as extreme metal drumming...requires a different approach than learning a fast chop. Working on technique to do it... does not achieve optimal results in this particular case.
I know this from many years of watching my students.
If you want to do this type of playing....you have to push beyond what you are comfortable with.
Making 200 "comfortable" will not make 220 any easier.

Jump into it, conquer...WIN!

Cheers.
D.

 

[sticksnstonesrus]

Agreed. The best mindset-post I've ever seen yet Derek.

This philospohy in a parallel intrument:

Imagine if Eddie V. Halen had a "teacher".

Jimi Hendrix?

In our world..we are the best examples of ourselves. It's our nature to watch, interpret, and apply. What we do with the knowledge acquired, how we apply, is what makes us different...and sometimes, great.

 

[ermghoti]

I think you're missing the point here.
Yes, it is important to work on "technique", but what these guys are trying to achieve.....(endurance runs playing 16ths at 230 for minutes at a time)
takes training.....Not a technique.

The search for a technique that will allow you to do... what others spent 10 years to develop is bogus. There is not such a technique.

I recognize that, and I thought I had said as much already. I'm not talking about learning a technique, I'm talking about refining one's technique. Eliminating extraneous motion. Maximizing rebound and control. Generating maximum force with minimum effort. Somebody can play "locked up" as you do, heel up, heel down, slide, heel-toe, whatever. That's not important. However, using whatever technique you are using efficiently is.

I would point out that you have discussed your own technique in this thread, recommending the use of the large leg muscles, with the ankles quiet. As you say, this in and of itself does not make a neophyte drummer into a speedster. However, somebody adopting this method would need to learn it, which I would suggest would be better done at 100 bpm than 250.

OTOH entirely, if this were somebody who can play 200ish, talking about reaching 250ish, I'd be inclined to agree with you entirely. My bias is such that when I see these threads, I assume their capabilities lag well short of that.

I had no lessons, No DVD's when I was a kid, and nobody to learn from where I grew up.
I was all alone....
Proving that learning all these "methods" and "techniques" are not a necessity.
True, the search for the perfect technique may benefit some ( this goes back to the "mindset" issue...if you believe they help you.....then they DO) but, they are not "necessary".

Funny, having never spent any time on techniques or technique...
I get a lot of compliments about how "good" mine is and questions about which ones I studied. Haha.

The fact that nobody taught you technique doesn't mean you didn't learn it. You simply inferred it as you went along. Fortunately for you, a good technique was reflexively comfortable, all the way up into the high 200's. That may not be true of everyone.

In all honesty, I believe these teachers (Morello, Gladstone, Stone, etc...) designed those "methods" to keep students.... students.
If those methods were the answer to the drumming problems we all have.....those teachers wouldn't have repeat business....in turn meaning.... that they wouldn't have any income.
In those days....that's how those guys supported themselves and their families.
Writing those classic books and teaching those classic methods.

They are great methods for learning drummers and always good to study for drummers of all ages....but, they are not "necessary" to make a great drummer.

I might suggest that if these methods didn't work, they would be abandoned. In fact, they do work, and drummers of all levels that take lessons from, say a Morello, come away with tangible improvements. If people didn't get results, the school of thought would perish.

Wanting to do something as physical as extreme metal drumming...requires a different approach than learning a fast chop. Working on technique to do it... does not achieve optimal results in this particular case.
I know this from many years of watching my students.
If you want to do this type of playing....you have to push beyond what you are comfortable with.
Making 200 "comfortable" will not make 220 any easier.

Jump into it, conquer...WIN!

Cheers.
D.

Fair enough. In my experience, I can only push as far as my foundation is broad. In guitar, bass, keyboard, and now drums, moving up to a new level of speed can reveal a physical/endurance limit, and/or a technique flaw. One is to be addressed with force, the other with analysis. Alternatively, as a couple of people have mentioned, there can be a tendency to "cheat" or relax, getting sloppy in one's form, especially during endurance training.

I tend to warm up at my comfortable speed, push that tempo a good bit higher than I play cleanly, and then slow back down. The slower tempos reinforce proper form, the faster drills are the workout.

I wonder again if we're actually particularly far apart in our views...

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

In all honesty, I believe these teachers (Morello, Gladstone, Stone, etc...) designed those "methods" to keep students.... students.
If those methods were the answer to the drumming problems we all have.....those teachers wouldn't have repeat business....in turn meaning.... that they wouldn't have any income.
In those days....that's how those guys supported themselves and their families.
Writing those classic books and teaching those classic methods.

Woah... That's certainly not fair to say. The only thing wrong with techniques is following them without questioning them and trying to get the best of everyone of them to finally build one's own.

But you're right in a way... But it's nothing wrong with the techniques themselves, it is with people teaching them like a dogma. Møller, Gladstone, French, Dutch, German... All of them are fantastic and worth taking a look at them for an experienced player, someone capable to understand why they are good and why they are not and taking the best of them. For a beginner they are just a bunch of abstract and ununderstandable concepts.
Techniques are built after 20-30-40 years of playing! They are something alive, that changes through the years, sometimes just because of tireness of playing the same way!

You didn't have a teacher... Well, I had too many and I remember some of them were very bad, and I thought the same way as you! But years after I somehow realized that I, like you, had more than enough speed and power to play what I wanted. Suddenly I had built my own technique and woops!, suddenly I realize that it's what allows me to be musical without having to worry about my hands!
Is this leading me somewhere? Probably not... Well, it took time to write so I post it, hope you're ok with it!

I can't believe you guys are trying to argue with Derek Roddy.

He's certainly the one to be arguing with as long he's ok with it! He has obviously wise answers worth reading!

 

[Derek Roddy]

I wonder again if we're actually particularly far apart in our views...

We are not. I agree with everything you said.

Somebody can play "locked up" as you do

I don't play "locked up".... I just don't pivot my ankles when playing fast alternating singles.
It's a very loose motion actually. Otherwise....I play just like any of you do or would.

I would point out that you have discussed your own technique in this thread, recommending the use of the large leg muscles

No I didn't. I was simply asked how I played fast notes.
I never "recommend" one... trying my "technique". This motion may only be applicable to me.
And this... is the problem I have with todays younger drummers searching for the perfect "technique". I bet there are drummers right now.....trying to change what they are doing because some dude (me) on a website said.... it works for them.

THIS is how injuries happen.... Changing what your body has been doing for god knows how long...for another motion. The body is a great adapter but....doesn't do well with sudden changes.
I've seen it many times now....a drummer didn't have any problems until they changed something.
Of course, if you're beating like a monkey...you're going to hurt yourself. In this case, you simply need to use common sense and take a physics course. Haha.
Learning about motion helps more than learning 15 different techniques. Gravity really only works one way.

I'm talking about refining one's technique. Eliminating extraneous motion. Maximizing rebound and control. Generating maximum force with minimum effort.

This happens naturally over time, if we focus on it... or not.
We will always "refine" our playing as long as we are playing. You just need to be aware of motion and how it works. It doesn't take "mastering" a physical principle with someones name attached to it.

However, somebody adopting this method would need to learn it, which I would suggest would be better done at 100 bpm than 250.

Not true... because you don't not use the same motion at 100 that you do to play 250.
Your body will tell you how it's going to do what you command of it....IF you listen. Adapting this style of learning comes from playing the drums.... not searching the internet or thumbing through method books.
Of course, unless you are actually playing at 250.....you wouldn't know that each tempo requires a slightly different method. Which is why most think... in order to play 250 you must first get 200. Not true.

My bias is such that when I see these threads, I assume their capabilities lag well short of that.

Well, that's a given. I know most of the drummers personally... that play fast music. I only know 4 or 5 that can actually PLAY 250 or above.

The fact that nobody taught you technique doesn't mean you didn't learn it. You simply inferred it as you went along. Fortunately for you, a good technique was reflexively comfortable, all the way up into the high 200's. That may not be true of everyone.

Never said I didn't learn them. In fact, I said the opposite.
I did learn them....just not from a book, video or internet. I learned them through playing and my understanding of motion....THAT'S my point. Thanks for clarifying that for me! Haha.
It may not be true for everyone but, it would be true for MORE drummers if they would just play and stop trying to correct faults they see in their playing by searching for techniques that may or may not work for them.

I might suggest that if these methods didn't work, they would be abandoned. In fact, they do work, and drummers of all levels that take lessons from, say a Morello, come away with tangible improvements. If people didn't get results, the school of thought would perish.

Never said they didn't work.
I said they were designed to keep us students.
I don't know about the rest of you but.... even at 30 years playing....I'm still a student.
I will always be a student. There is nothing condemning about my statement.
They are, what they are...a method to improve your skills at the kit....not the answers to your drumming "problems".

Fair enough. In my experience, I can only push as far as my foundation is broad. In guitar, bass, keyboard, and now drums, moving up to a new level of speed can reveal a physical/endurance limit, and/or a technique flaw. One is to be addressed with force, the other with analysis. Alternatively, as a couple of people have mentioned, there can be a tendency to "cheat" or relax, getting sloppy in one's form, especially during endurance training.

This is all personal goals. There are a lot of drummers who play fast and are very sloppy. I'm sure that they are working on "cleaning" their playing up but... it doesn't come from changing techniques....it comes from repetitive motion or repetitive playing.
That's how we get to our goals. By doing it over and over.

Let me finish with an example of the details that I find...too many drummers are worried about.
Here is a video from above of my playing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at-eGdtthww
For many drummers... having a different grip for each hand is "believed" to be a "problem" or could LEAD to a problem.
I use to think so....until I started listening to my playing.
Doesn't sound like there is anything wrong. Doesn't feel like anything is wrong.

So, my question is....do I spend another 15 years working on my hands so my grip can be the same or perfect?
Does every stroke HAVE TO be mechanically perfect?

Here is another video of my over all "technique".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZQ23edYt_o
There is some fast stuff in the middle and some jam stuff at the end.
Sorry Marco's head is in the way! Haha.

Cheers guys, it's been fun but...
think about how much practice time we lost.... just participating in this thread. Those valuable minute could have been what got you from 200 to 220.
In reality, this is what makes us better.....actually playing.

D.

 

[Drummerboy30]

Knowing the difference is key but, when speaking about techniques you can't play....how do you learn them?
Do they just come?
Do you wake up one day after thinking about it and it's there?
Of course not.
You're not going to start out playing the "technique" perfect. Nor, are you going to play the song perfect, at first.
Different terms, same result.

It's all in what you want to do.

If your goal is to play fast music...the only way to get there is to play fast music.
If you want to have fast chops...well, you just have to practice fast chops.
If you want to be very musical...you have to practice being musical.
If you want to have a deep pocket...you have to practice having a deep pocket.
If you want your drums to sound good... you have to practice that.
If you want to develop your listening skills...you have to place yourself in a situation that allows you to practice that.
See where I'm going here?
None of this stuff just happens, and you don't work on your listening skills by wanting to be "musical".

Know body starts out... being great. So yes, while you do see a lot of learning and "bad technique" on youtube...they had to start somewhere.
Haha.
And, if they have all the qualities of being a great drummer....they'll get there by doing all those things.

Cheers,
D.

Say for example...i want to play a song with 220bpm double bass. What if this is a physical impossibility at the time, and I cant even do a blast beat at that speed. How can i "Just do it" if I physically cant???
P.S. I am not applying this to me, im just asking a question.

 

[Drummerboy30]

Hi Derek, who is this guy? Does his band have a myspace?

Man, these two schools of thought are totally contradictory. I am confused right now. However, like others have said, might as well try both(!)

You couldn't have said it any better, thats just what I was thinking.

 

[Drummerboy30]

I think you're missing the point here.
Yes, it is important to work on "technique", but what these guys are trying to achieve.....(endurance runs playing 16ths at 230 for minutes at a time)
takes training.....Not a technique.

The search for a technique that will allow you to do... what others spent 10 years to develop is bogus. There is not such a technique.

It's all mindset really.
The ones who get there....
get there by doing it, Not wanting to do it.
(Which is 9 times out of 10 what drummers say)...."I'd love to able to play 16ths at 220......."

So DO it.

Like I said before.....I'm where I want to be with speed and endurance.
I didn't get there by wanting to be there.....I did it by DOING it.

I had no lessons, No DVD's when I was a kid, and nobody to learn from where I grew up.
I was all alone....
Proving that learning all these "methods" and "techniques" are not a necessity.
True, the search for the perfect technique may benefit some ( this goes back to the "mindset" issue...if you believe they help you.....then they DO) but, they are not "necessary".

Funny, having never spent any time on techniques or technique...
I get a lot of compliments about how "good" mine is and questions about which ones I studied. Haha.

In all honesty, I believe these teachers (Morello, Gladstone, Stone, etc...) designed those "methods" to keep students.... students.
If those methods were the answer to the drumming problems we all have.....those teachers wouldn't have repeat business....in turn meaning.... that they wouldn't have any income.
In those days....that's how those guys supported themselves and their families.
Writing those classic books and teaching those classic methods.

They are great methods for learning drummers and always good to study for drummers of all ages....but, they are not "necessary" to make a great drummer.

Wanting to do something as physical as extreme metal drumming...requires a different approach than learning a fast chop. Working on technique to do it... does not achieve optimal results in this particular case.
I know this from many years of watching my students.
If you want to do this type of playing....you have to push beyond what you are comfortable with.
Making 200 "comfortable" will not make 220 any easier.

Jump into it, conquer...WIN!

Cheers.
D.

I have a question for you Derek, you say to play say 260bpm you just have to "Do it." Well when you first started playing drums you definetly didnt just sit down and start playing 260bpm. Could you please just explain how you got to that speed. Thanks.

 

[bernhard]

Cheers guys, it's been fun but...
think about how much practice time we lost.... just participating in this thread. Those valuable minute could have been what got you from 200 to 220.
In reality, this is what makes us better.....actually playing.

D.

Derek - you're so right!!!!!

(...this answer was sent from my Laptop in my practice-room - still at 195)

Bernhard

 

[Derek Roddy]

I have a question for you Derek, you say to play say 260bpm you just have to "Do it." Well when you first started playing drums you definetly didnt just sit down and start playing 260bpm. Could you please just explain how you got to that speed. Thanks.

This is a great question.
You see...when I started playing extreme metal....there was no such thing as 260.

Myself...a long with many other players from the genre....push the tempos (to what they are today)..... by playing fast music for the last 15 years.
It's no secret.

First it was.... 185, then 200, then 215, then 230, then 245, then 260....this took me 10+ years.

And, it will you too.............no matter what technique you learn today, next week or next year.

THAT's my point. No technique will help you get there any quicker than the next. You just have to sit down and work it out to what is comfortable to YOU.

D.

 

[Derek Roddy]

Say for example...i want to play a song with 220bpm double bass. What if this is a physical impossibility at the time, and I cant even do a blast beat at that speed. How can i "Just do it" if I physically cant???

You practice.
You sit down and try.
You play as much of the song as you can..... each time you play it. For the other half you can't play.....drop the note value in half....catch your breath and then doing it again.
Each time you do this....you will get a little farthar into the song.
Before you know it....you'll be playing the entire song. Make it solid, move on to another song.
That's HOW to do it.

Cheers,
D.

 

[Drummerboy30]

This is a great question.
You see...when I started playing extreme metal....there was no such thing as 260.

Myself...a long with many other players from the genre....push the tempos (to what they are today)..... by playing fast music for the last 15 years.
It's no secret.

First it was.... 185, then 200, then 215, then 230, then 245, then 260....this took me 10+ years.

And, it will you too.............no matter what technique you learn today, next week or next year.

THAT's my point. No technique will help you get there any quicker than the next. You just have to sit down and work it out to what is comfortable to YOU.

D.

So, rather than just doing 260, I need to "just do" a speed that very greatly challenges me until i get it then repeat...and then repeat??? And Also... If i may clarify, your outlook on technique.

The technique you have doesn't matter a bit, technique is simply the method in which you use to achieve something. There is no such thing as bad technique, any technique will end with the same results. And people who worry about having bad technique, they dont have bad technique unless it hurts, but other then that your technique is...yours. And again, people shouldnt worry about bad technique because...duh...your not going to do something that hurts are you.

So tell me Derek am I correct???

 

[Derek Roddy]

The technique you have doesn't matter a bit

The technique you USE...doesn't matter a bit.

technique is simply the method in which you use to achieve something.

Correct.

There is no such thing as bad technique, any technique will end with the same results

There is no such thing as A bad technique if it works for you.
Hell, you could put a drumstick in the crack of you butt and play cowbell with it. That's a technique.
Any technique that is "practiced" will yield the same results. The stick is still moving up and down and making a sound right?

And people who worry about having bad technique, they dont have bad technique unless it hurts, but other then that your technique is...yours.

I've noticed, people worry about having bad technique... when they can't play something they want too.
They blame their technique for not being able to play 240!!!!!!!!!! or some crazy chop.
A technique has nothing to do with 240, 300, 500....or a crazy chop...

Time spent does.
D.

 

[Drummerboy30]

The technique you USE...doesn't matter a bit.



Correct.



There is no such thing as A bad technique if it works for you.
Hell, you could put a drumstick in the crack of you butt and play cowbell with it. That's a technique.
Any technique that is "practiced" will yield the same results. The stick is still moving up and down and making a sound right?



I've noticed, people worry about having bad technique... when they can't play something they want too.
They blame their technique for not being able to play 240!!!!!!!!!! or some crazy chop.
A technique has nothing to do with 240, 300, 500....or a crazy chop...

Time spent does.
D.

Hey Derek, you never answered my first question, read my last post. Oh and if you have time could you please reply to the messages ive sent you??? Thanks a lot!

 

[Derek Roddy]

So, rather than just doing 260, I need to "just do" a speed that very greatly challenges me until i get it then repeat...and then repeat???

Correct.

Maybe let me try and put this another way.
Let's take JoJo for an example.
JoJo has one of the best looking "techniques" in drumming. He has put a lot of time into learning various "techniques".... that allow him to do the same thing in a variety of ways with more efficiency.

Even with all of his perfect technique and techniques......I'd be willing to bet $1000.00 that he couldn't make it through 2 minutes of a Nile or Hate Eternal song. And not because he told me he couldn't.
Why?
Because he doesn't play that kind of music, he doesn't practice it, he doesn't want to.

Did I say he couldn't if he "practiced"? No.

I do know he could though. Even though he has told me....he "can't play like that"
The point is, if he had to sit down and "do it" he couldn't............ despite having all this "technique".

D.

 

[SickRick]

A technique has nothing to do with 240, 300, 500....or a crazy chop...

Time spent does.
D.

That's so true. Of course there are quick ways of improving your level and slow waysof improving your level but even with the quick ways the rule applys: You want to become better - you HAVE to put in the necessary amount of time. There is no other way than that.

Just go to the drums and work hard on your playing everyday. Soooooo many questions on this forum (regarding all drumming in general) would never occur if more people would just sit behind their drums and try to figure stuff out for themselves. I have the slight feeling that maybe there is some "snugness" involved here....

I have a little story to share about this: maybe one or two years back a guy walks into my room at musicschool asking for lessons. He said he wanted to play DreamTheater and some Metal (Pantera, Sepultura and also some Extreme Metal). I checked him a bit (never played drums before) and found out that he had really good ears in terms of finding out what is played on records. Also, his hands looked pretty good and relaxed. So what I did was this: I gave him 4 lessons for free in which I showed him the basic principles of technique (Freestroke, Doubles, Paradiddles and some BD-tech) and of reading music so he could transcribe stuff for himself. Then I told him: "You don't need me. You are wasting your money here. If you want to play all that music all you have to do is play it. Listen to the records, get some friends together and jam to it. And work your ass off because it won't be easy and what it takes above all is balls."
He was quite surprised and sayed he needed more guidance. I made him the offer to come in any time to show me stuff hes working on or if he cannot figure something out alone. That happened two or three times after that and every single time he was on the right track and just needed to invest more time and energy.
One week ago I saw him play with his band on a festival I played myself and boy... wow... I was blown away. The guy was sounding sweet and had confidence that you only gain by working on stuff and going for stuff.

Hoping for the right answers on forums will not get you half as far as working on stuff will. Of course: You gain a lot of information and it might keep you away from traps, but it will absolutely not replace the time spent doing it.

 

[Derek Roddy]

Hell, you could put a drumstick in the crack of you butt and play cowbell with it. That's a technique.

This gives me a great idea.
I'm going to write a new method book and marketing campaign for this.

The Roddy "ButtCrack" cowbell technique.

1. Learn to play cowbell better and faster than all your peers.
2. Create a greater sense of balance at the kit because the striking point is directly in the center of the body.
3. Frees your hands for "overplaying" on the rest of your kit.
4. Musicians will think you are a magician when they hear cowbell but, don't see you playing one.
5. Make Will Ferrell jealous...as your cowbell playing is far superior and looks cooler.
6. It's a better technique than playing with your hands!
7. Resonation from the butt cheeks are much higher than that of your hand... creating a much more full cowbell sound.

D.

 

[Ben Tormey]

2. Create a greater sense of balance at the kit because the striking point is directly in the center of the body.
5. Make Will Ferrell jealous...as your cowbell playing is far superior and looks cooler.
7. Resonation from the butt cheeks are much higher than that of your hand... creating a much more full cowbell sound.

I laughed out loud at these.