alparrott
Diamond Member
This says it all: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure
Play free for exposure?
- Thread starter JustJames
- Start date
Midnite Zephyr
Platinum Member
Red Menace beat you to the punch, sir.
Hollywood Jim
Platinum Member
OK, OK my Rolling Stones example was way out in left field. It would never happen.
But my point was that there are exceptions where we should consider playing for free. Especially if it's good for our resume.
How about this one: Brad Paisley and his band is playing for Farm Aid. The whole band is donating their time and playing for free.
They want you to play drums for them. Would you do it for free?
Of course you would.
However, if a bar owner wants your band to play for free to get exposure,
I don't think 12 (drunk) people in the audience in a bar equals exposure for your band.
.
But my point was that there are exceptions where we should consider playing for free. Especially if it's good for our resume.
How about this one: Brad Paisley and his band is playing for Farm Aid. The whole band is donating their time and playing for free.
They want you to play drums for them. Would you do it for free?
Of course you would.
However, if a bar owner wants your band to play for free to get exposure,
I don't think 12 (drunk) people in the audience in a bar equals exposure for your band.
.
alparrott
Diamond Member
Indeed. I missed him as I was scrolling through. But it's still true.
STXBob
Gold Member
I don't leave the house unless it's a really close friend who's in a bind or I'm getting paid. The farther I have to drive, the more the gig needs to pay. Period. Just because I don't make my entire living from this doesn't mean I'm not a professional. Professionals get professional pay. Ask the venue owner, "Try getting a plumber to work for exposure. Go ahead. I'll wait."
As for charity gigs, this was posted in another thread:
Absolutely goddamn right. Either everyone involved donates their time, expertise, and wear and tear, or nobody does and everybody gets paid.
As for charity gigs, this was posted in another thread:
Absolutely goddamn right. Either everyone involved donates their time, expertise, and wear and tear, or nobody does and everybody gets paid.
Midnite Zephyr
Platinum Member
Well, I've no GF or wife, so it's either go out and play a free gig on Halloween, or sit around the house by myself while everyone else is doing their family stuff with their little kiddies.
philrudd
Senior Member
Where I'm from, there are more bands than places/slots to play. It's just simple economics: supply outstrips demand.
No one NEEDS a band. People sometimes NEED plumbers and electricians, but I can't ever remember hearing anyone yell, 'QUICK! Call a band!'
So supply will ALWAYS outstrip demand, in my opinion.
RE: the Oatmeal strip: I always know BEFORE I make my 'creative thing' what the pay is (or is not) going to be. That creative blob in the strip is an idiot.
No one NEEDS a band. People sometimes NEED plumbers and electricians, but I can't ever remember hearing anyone yell, 'QUICK! Call a band!'
So supply will ALWAYS outstrip demand, in my opinion.
RE: the Oatmeal strip: I always know BEFORE I make my 'creative thing' what the pay is (or is not) going to be. That creative blob in the strip is an idiot.
oneflightup
Member
That's incredible!
People should get paid for their work, not pay for the 'privilege' to work.
Odd-Arne Oseberg
Platinum Member
I'd play double drums with Vinnie for free.
Why? surely he should pay for the honour of playing with you, a member of drummerworld.
SquadLeader
Gold Member
Band I'm in doesn't play for exposure. We'll play a free gig because we love playing our music.
About half the gigs we do are unpaid/low paid.
We've picked up some decent paid gigs on a few occasions and we got our big gig at a music festival, regular paid spots at a decent paying venue, and good support slots for bands we admire, because we have a reputation as a gang with the right attitude towards music.
About half the gigs we do are unpaid/low paid.
We've picked up some decent paid gigs on a few occasions and we got our big gig at a music festival, regular paid spots at a decent paying venue, and good support slots for bands we admire, because we have a reputation as a gang with the right attitude towards music.
Seafroggys
Silver Member
Pay should be based on merit. I am in two bands right now; an originals band and a Lady Gaga cover band. My Gaga band only has played two shows, the last one on Friday; both gigs net the band over $80 per member. We almost filled the place to capacity, had 80-100 people show up both nights.
My originals band may be able to bring a few people to the show, and often play with others on the bill who bring in maybe 1-2 dozen in total. Split three ways, you can see where that's going as far as pay is concerned. Commonly the whole band will just make $10, which we put in a beer fund. Sometimes nothing at all.
If you're not bringing anybody to the gig, which is a common problem with many original bands, why are you complaining about not getting paid? Get asses into the bar.
My originals band may be able to bring a few people to the show, and often play with others on the bill who bring in maybe 1-2 dozen in total. Split three ways, you can see where that's going as far as pay is concerned. Commonly the whole band will just make $10, which we put in a beer fund. Sometimes nothing at all.
If you're not bringing anybody to the gig, which is a common problem with many original bands, why are you complaining about not getting paid? Get asses into the bar.
T
The SunDog
Guest
"About half the gigs we do are unpaidxz
" because we have a reputation as a gang with the right attitude towards music".[/QUOTE]
This is the perfect wrong answer. "Because we have a rep for taking less than we're worth". Or is it "we're known for taking less than other bands". Stop screwing around and worse than that, screwing other bands. Get it together man or get out of the game. Sorry to come off harsh, but your attitude chaps my ass.
" because we have a reputation as a gang with the right attitude towards music".[/QUOTE]
This is the perfect wrong answer. "Because we have a rep for taking less than we're worth". Or is it "we're known for taking less than other bands". Stop screwing around and worse than that, screwing other bands. Get it together man or get out of the game. Sorry to come off harsh, but your attitude chaps my ass.
Super Phil
Senior Member
We'll do the occasional unpaid gig for charity or exposure if the circumstances are right.
JustJames
Platinum Member
How is this screwing other bands?
If the other bands are good enough to command more money, they will get it. If they don't, then they won't. Because bands aren't competing with other bands as much as they are competing with piped music, sports on TV, pokies and whatever other inexpensive/profitable entertainment is out there.
I haven't tried this, but I seriously doubt the fact that my band would play a venue for less than AC/DC is going to get us in ahead AC/DC.
And here you go...
T
The SunDog
Guest
How is this screwing other bands?
If the other bands are good enough to command more money, they will get it. If they don't, then they won't. Because bands aren't competing with other bands as much as they are competing with piped music, sports on TV, pokies and whatever other inexpensive/profitable entertainment is out there.
I haven't tried this, but I seriously doubt the fact that my band would play a venue for less than AC/DC is going to get us in ahead AC/DC.
And here you go...
Okay I'll do this once and then refrain from digression. If a landscaping company charges zero dollars, they will get jobs, regardless of how much they suck, at the expense of legitimate companies. Professional musicians don't play for free, so lesser musicians that charge less (or play for free) in order to get booked are taking work away at the benefit of a business owner and exspense of working bands. If I walked into your place of work and offered to do your job for free, there's a damn good chance that you would be looking for a new job the next day. In the union this is what we call a rat. Oh yeah, and keep the chapstick. My guess is you need it more than me.
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STXBob
Gold Member
No, no you're not. Venue owners by and large don't care about the act's quality, even if they have the expertise to judge.* All they require is the ability to put "LIVE MUSIC" on their billboard.
What they care about is cash flow. What they care about is having "a band." If they can get "a band" for less money - or free - that's precisely what they'll do.
The bottom line is undercut pricing only hurts the people doing what you do. I've seen it in the custom clothing business, too. I've seen it in farriers, of all things!
I'm not saying everyone should charge what the Stones get. More popular acts should make more money. When I was in the USVI, the baseline was $100 per. The top act I heard about was a local boy who went international; he got $10,000 per gig (but he paid out his entourage from that, so...).
What I am saying is if the number you charge should not be zero. It should be what other working musicians in your area get, on average. If you quiz other bands and they get $100 per, your price is $100 per.
If you don't do this simple thing, you're not just hurting yourselves. You're hurting everyone. EVERYONE.
SunDog and I have had our disagreements before, but he's 100% on target on this one.
* Neither do audiences, remember? How many times have you read here on DW that the audience won't notice if you make a mistake?
Juniper
Gold Member
I have a great example. We allowed ourselves to get suckered a couple months ago.
Asked to play the Tramlines festival a few months ago from a record label who my band was on good terms with, they mentioned they were interested in us months before/might want to sign us...etc the usual speal. For those not in the know Tramlines festival is a city wide event, taking place across many venues in Sheffield, UK once a year.
One of the pre-show suckers was that they could not help with travel costs from London to Sheffield but gave us all the line about the Festival being good exposure for us. After some lenghty discussion we agreed to do it as we’d never played Sheffield before and fancied a road trip together, knowing that it was going to be either really good or really bad.
Unfortunately it was the latter
Anyway, we travelled the whole way (3 1/2 hour drive) to be met by the label head/organiser who straight away thanked us for coming but he wasn’t interested in signing us as he didn’t think we were radio friendly enough, just went straight into it without any of us asking him about their interest or trying to discuss ‘business’ matters. The lack of tact was frustrating, we’d literally just walked in the door to play for him, not discuss anything like that!
This was also after finding out the show was no way linked to Tramlines Festival and was being put on in a tiny venue outside the city centre (was quite an experience driving through thousands of people in the streets/music echoing all over the city centre to turn up to a quiet area a couple miles away with no people around). Ever the proffesionals we took the stage anyway but the house kit was awful/falling apart mid songs and to top it all off our singer lost his voice 2 songs from the end of our set and we had to finish (to an empty pub) early.
To say we left cheesed off is an understatement, won’t work with that guy ever again as we’d helped him out in the past filling in for bands who had cancelled last minute. We did have plenty of trepidations about it but still went ahead for the fun of it (of which there was none) so we’re under no illusions who is to blame for putting ourselves in that situation- ie us.
Lesson learned for the next time I guess.
Asked to play the Tramlines festival a few months ago from a record label who my band was on good terms with, they mentioned they were interested in us months before/might want to sign us...etc the usual speal. For those not in the know Tramlines festival is a city wide event, taking place across many venues in Sheffield, UK once a year.
One of the pre-show suckers was that they could not help with travel costs from London to Sheffield but gave us all the line about the Festival being good exposure for us. After some lenghty discussion we agreed to do it as we’d never played Sheffield before and fancied a road trip together, knowing that it was going to be either really good or really bad.
Unfortunately it was the latter
Anyway, we travelled the whole way (3 1/2 hour drive) to be met by the label head/organiser who straight away thanked us for coming but he wasn’t interested in signing us as he didn’t think we were radio friendly enough, just went straight into it without any of us asking him about their interest or trying to discuss ‘business’ matters. The lack of tact was frustrating, we’d literally just walked in the door to play for him, not discuss anything like that!
This was also after finding out the show was no way linked to Tramlines Festival and was being put on in a tiny venue outside the city centre (was quite an experience driving through thousands of people in the streets/music echoing all over the city centre to turn up to a quiet area a couple miles away with no people around). Ever the proffesionals we took the stage anyway but the house kit was awful/falling apart mid songs and to top it all off our singer lost his voice 2 songs from the end of our set and we had to finish (to an empty pub) early.
To say we left cheesed off is an understatement, won’t work with that guy ever again as we’d helped him out in the past filling in for bands who had cancelled last minute. We did have plenty of trepidations about it but still went ahead for the fun of it (of which there was none) so we’re under no illusions who is to blame for putting ourselves in that situation- ie us.
Lesson learned for the next time I guess.
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SquadLeader
Gold Member
You totally de-contextualised my statement to make your point.
Here's what I actually said...
Band I'm in doesn't play for exposure. We'll play a free gig because we love playing our music.
About half the gigs we do are unpaid/low paid.
We've picked up some decent paid gigs on a few occasions and we got our big gig at a music festival, regular paid spots at a decent paying venue, and good support slots for bands we admire, because we have a reputation as a gang with the right attitude towards music.
Reading comprehension doesn't appear to be your strong point so I'll summarise. We will play any gig. We pick up paid gigs because we're not dickheads and we're actually pretty good at what we do. The paid gigs we get have come about because we've put ourselves around a lot, playing all manner of gig. And we go about doing things the right way everywhere we play. Both in terms of our music (we try to be as professional as we can be) and our attitudes.
Example. We played a gig in Bury some time back. They had offered us £100. There was hardly anyone in the venue. We didn't feel right taking £100. We took £40. They booked us back on a busier night. And insisted we take £100.
We won't have the piss taken out of us. But we will try to do right for everyone involved.
If other bands cannot compete with us. Tough sh1t quite frankly.
And stop comparing playing music to other jobs. It's not the same. Not at all. For all manner of reasons. You know this. You're not stupid.
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