odd-time hi-hat pedal work

[four crossed wands]

Hi,

Lately I've been working a lot on keeping quarter, dotted quarter, and clave patterns on my hi-hat pedal, as I'm starting to find this often adds more interesting rhythmic counterpoint to the mix than playing eighths with the foot. But when I play in odd times, say 5/8 or 7/8, I'm having a hard time deciding how to place my pedal notes:

- playing quarters straight through has a cool, smooth sound but puts each bar in contrast with its neighbor;
- playing the accents sparsely (imagine our 7/8 is broken up as 4 and 3, I'd play quarter quarter dotted-quarter) leaves at least one uneven gap;
- and filling in the gaps with eighth notes (quarter quarter quarter eight, or quarter quarter eight eight eight) can sound too busy, and maybe even a little unsteady, emphasizing the off-ness of the odd time.

These problems are exacerbated when it's a signature like 11/16.

They're all useful tools, but which one do you prefer? Which one do you think helps the band stay in time better?

 

[veggo32]

Think of 5/8 as 123, 12 so emphasis on the 1's would be one option.
7/8 can be thought of as 12,12,123 or 123,12,12 again emphasis on 1.

 

[four crossed wands]

Think of 5/8 as 123, 12 so emphasis on the 1's would be one option.
7/8 can be thought of as 12,12,123 or 123,12,12 again emphasis on 1.

That's option number two in the list I gave in my post. What do you like about it?

 

[Deathmetalconga]

You can break any larger complex rhythm into multiples of 1, 2, 3 and 4. I typically play the hats on the 1 and/or 2. Playing on the "and" is difficult in odd rhythms but really makes the music pop.

 

[cnw60]

That's option number two in the list I gave in my post. What do you like about it?

I don't think there's a universally right approach. It really depends on the song and how the phrasing is written. Take Five is a classic 5/4 song and it breaks down as 3+2. Other songs in five break down as 2+3. Blue Rondo Ala Turk is another great example because the phrasing changes within the song, which is in 9/8, but breaks down as three measures of 2+2+2+3 followed by one measure of 3+3+3.

Whatever you do has to make sense within the context of the song.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Aside from repetitive practice how much do you listen to progressive/odd meter music? Getting the clave is one thing but feeling it is another. You can help by listening to latin jazz.

I would suggest you start listening to more odd meter music and start to feel it more than count. Mahavishnu, Michel Camilo (in a latin context), even some recent Iron Maiden stuff since they are very melodic. Also, check out Ivo Papasov, it's insane and amazingly, music that people dance to in Bulgaria.

 

[four crossed wands]

Just to clarify, playing the odd meters or recognizing the subdivision isn't my problem. I've been playing in these meters for years (and listen to and play stuff from Mahavishnu Orchestra to Spiral Architect to Taraf de Haidouks), but I've only recently started really varying what I do with the hi-hat pedal in them (before I would play straight eights or not at all), and I was asking more-so for patterns that you folks preferred and why.

Maybe it's a dumb question. I mean, I can already use my ears and select the right thing according to me; I just wanted to hear some other opinions. Do you find people in your band get tighter or looser if you play quarters straight through? Do you prefer a dense pattern to a sparse one? Do you prefer to splash the hats with the foot on an accent and play eighths all the way through? More listening suggestions where the hi-hat pedal work is clearly audible would be welcome, though, of course!

One I didn't mention that's nice in slower tempos is playing everything but the accents, but I don't like how busy it is as things get faster.