Giving up the double pedal...

Some people have the problem, some don't.
Its kind of like having a car and driving it to a job that is just around the corner from home, instead of walking.

I'm being lazy instead of perfecting techniques that allow you do the same with one foot.
If I take the crutch away, I will learn to walk properly. So to speak. Then In the future, when the crutch is there, I won't need to rely on it to play the same thing.

I admit I am a lazy person, and if there is an easy way around something, I will take the easy route. I want to stop doing that, so I am just eliminating all the detours.

I did the same thing when I was over playing my toms in fills. Cut back to a four piece.
Now no matter what I play, I get more creative in fills, instead of just a roll between the snare and 4 toms.

I don't mean to sound rude or hateful of anything. I've just never been good at explaining things.
 
I'm not a double bass player at all, but I have a pedal, and I like using it from
time to time. I like to have the freedom of playing the bassdrum with both
feet, just in case I want to, say for a fill, a solo, a song's end, or even within
a groove.

Personally I don't understand the "too lazy to play with one foot" thing, because
in my book it is harder to get a good and tight groove going with both feet than with one.
 
Swiss Matthias said:
(...) Personally I don't understand the "too lazy to play with one foot" thing, because in my book it is harder to get a good and tight groove going with both feet than with one.
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Good point.

I'm regularly surprised when I read "and I can go back to the double pedal when I need it" or something like that. Now if you're going to do slightly more than just fooling around with a double pedal it takes a lot of time to acquire the skills accordingly. This is what I'm practicing for 1.5 years - a lot double bass. And it's not that easy... Maybe I'm extremely untalented by nature (although 240 bpm isn't too bad with singles) but if I imagined I wouldn't have practiced that much and then simply decided to "use a double pedal" I wouldn't have the skills to use it and the result would be - crappy playing.

The facts are that to get good on the double pedal takes serious practice time. Anything less will be for so-so results. Maybe that serious amount of time is what is putting many off and talking double pedals down. Sure many drummers don't need double pedals, but I'm sure many wished they could but simply lack the skills to do so - as a result of lacking the dedication to practice.

I don't want to rule out there are good double bass players who decide to return to a single bass pedal setup (at least temporarily), but this simply implies they must have put in the time/practice to acquire good double pedal skills at an earlier stage. (I'm talking years.)

BTW, spending time on the double pedal makes you aware of the (usually existing) difference in speed/strength/control between one's strong and weak foot. And as a result, of minimizing this difference and get the weaker foot at par (if possible) with the strong one. Isn't this exactly what is constantly suggested for hands? There is this constant analogy hands vs. feet. Now if somebody uses both hands for some parts nobody would say "Hey, you're lazy! You could do this with one hand only!"
 
I don't know - for years I played a single, and when I went double, it was quite liberating and alot of fun. Of course, I waste a bit of time trying to figure out where I can stick in that extra bass drum (I declined the double pedal and went to two bass drums instead), but I think if you live with the mantra that your job is to provide time for the band and realize that the groove is king, I don't see a problem with the extra instrument just being there. However, I do have both set up in my practice space - a double bass kit and a small 4- or 5-piece set with only a single bass drum. So, my reminders of what my role is is with me all the time.

I think there's a certain amount of maturity involved if you can carry around a big double bass kit and only play snare, bass, and hat 90% of the time on it.
 
Bo Eder said:
I think there's a certain amount of maturity involved if you can carry around a big double bass kit and only play snare, bass, and hat 90% of the time on it.
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That or you're playing 80's heavy metal :p
 
Bo Eder said:
I don't know - for years I played a single, and when I went double, it was quite liberating and alot of fun. Of course, I waste a bit of time trying to figure out where I can stick in that extra bass drum (I declined the double pedal and went to two bass drums instead), but I think if you live with the mantra that your job is to provide time for the band and realize that the groove is king, I don't see a problem with the extra instrument just being there. However, I do have both set up in my practice space - a double bass kit and a small 4- or 5-piece set with only a single bass drum. So, my reminders of what my role is is with me all the time.
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I started drumming because of punk and rock. I went to a double pedal in my first year of drumming because death metal took over my inspiration, Then got an 8 piece double kick set. It was fun, but not what I was looking for drum wise, then took it down to a four piece with a double pedal, it was perfect at the time, Then got a new kit when that one fell apart, a 6 piece. On a 4, 6 or 8 piece I was always playing with the double kicks, I lost focus of working on techniques like heel toe and slide for quick doubles. Things I should have learned when I first started. I'm not getting rid of my double pedal, I'm using the out of sight out of mind thing.

I have also gotten back into playing my original inspirations, yet the double pedal is stamped in my mind, saying "Hey use me, its easy!"
Though its easy to do a double with it, I need to focus on doubles, while still fully controlling the hats.

Maybe I'm over explaining myself? I'm not for or against either. I like them both, but focus too much on the double is habit forming to me.
 
belairien said:
At least for a while. I've been focusing too much on using it, and after striping my kit down to a basic rock set up, I realized how much fun it was with only a single kick pedal.
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I've had a similar approach about a year ago, and I'm now enjoying a single pedal kit, it's very nice to brush up my single foot technique :)
 
Arky said:
I'm regularly surprised when I read "and I can go back to the double pedal when I need it" or something like that. Now if you're going to do slightly more than just fooling around with a double pedal it takes a lot of time to acquire the skills accordingly. This is what I'm practicing for 1.5 years - a lot double bass. And it's not that easy... Maybe I'm extremely untalented by nature (although 240 bpm isn't too bad with singles) but if I imagined I wouldn't have practiced that much and then simply decided to "use a double pedal" I wouldn't have the skills to use it and the result would be - crappy playing.

The facts are that to get good on the double pedal takes serious practice time. Anything less will be for so-so results. Maybe that serious amount of time is what is putting many off and talking double pedals down. Sure many drummers don't need double pedals, but I'm sure many wished they could but simply lack the skills to do so - as a result of lacking the dedication to practice.
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I guess it depends on what your goals are. I spent my formative years shedding with a double bass, so I get what you're talking about when you mention developing the weak foot and all of that.

To my way of thinking, the artistry in drumming isn't just about technique and I'm not sure that 240 bpm is necessarily an indicator of talent in the artistic sense, though it is an indicator of how athletic you are.

I don't have a set of criteria that a drummer needs to have mastered before I can consider him or her "worthy" or minimally good.

I realize that the slave pedal is only inches away and it isn't a big deal to move my left foot over to catch the pedal for however long, and that moving it back again is no greater effort. I find that whole thing a bit of a distraction, and am more interesting in finding a way to generate low power and speed using my 15, 18, and 24 while avoiding Bonham triplets as much as possible (so to avoid the single kick cliches as much as the double ones). One of my favored approaches is to work 16ths between my fist floor and my single kick while accenting big flams on the snare and rack tom with either the floor or the kick. Most people, including many drummers, will mistake this sound for double kick BUT then they notice the steady or dotted quarters playing on the hats with the left foot... well, that's priceless. But more than that, it just sounds cool.

Anyway, I'm not hating on double pedals and hats off to the many drummers who've elevated it to a new level. I do enjoy some of these guys who can really rip it up and they've come a long way from just running straight 16ths on them, so that's very cool. But unless you're into metal or prog rock (which I'm not) then they have minimal musical application and the whole thing becomes just another exercise.

Some drummers want to master double pedals, others want to master the ride cymbal, and I'm somewhere in between... it's all good.
 
MikeM said:
I know that the slave pedal is only inches away and it isn't a big deal to move my left foot over to catch the pedal for however long, and that moving it back again is no greater effort. But for my own playing, I find that whole thing a distraction, and to me it's more interesting to find a way to generate low power using my 15, 18, and 24 while avoiding Bonham triplets. One of my favored approaches is to work 16ths between my fist floor and my single kick while accenting big flams on the snare and rack tom with either the floor or the kick. Most people, including many drummers, will mistake this sound for double kick BUT then they notice the steady or dotted quarters playing on the hats with the left foot... priceless.
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^This is one thing I would like to do. And the "Distracting" part is what I tried to explain xD
 
When you add a cowbell to a kit chances are there will be more cowbell. Add an extra bass drum and you have more bass drum.


MikeM said:
One of my favored approaches is to work 16ths between my fist floor and my single kick while accenting big flams on the snare and rack tom with either the floor or the kick. Most people, including many drummers, will mistake this sound for double kick BUT then they notice the steady or dotted quarters playing on the hats with the left foot... well, that's just priceless.
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I've heard Mike do this and, yes, he creates the same stampeding elephants effect with hand and foot.

Agree that it shouldn't be a big deal - all of us play the way we want to play, bounded by our limitations. No point playing what someone else wants you to play unless they're paying you (or they have great ideas).
 
MikeM said:
One of my favored approaches is to work 16ths between my fist floor and my single kick while accenting big flams on the snare and rack tom with either the floor or the kick. Most people, including many drummers, will mistake this sound for double kick BUT then they notice the steady or dotted quarters playing on the hats with the left foot... well, that's priceless. But more than that, it just sounds cool.
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Yes, nice one Mike...

I use the floor tom, single kick, hi-hat and snare to (re) create the double bass drum triplets shuffle, straight down beat shuffle on floor with right hand, same shuffle on kick exept on the upbeat, snare on 2 and 4 with ghosts while slamming quarters on the hi-hat with left foot, you'll swear there's 2 kicks in there :))
 
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. My computer speakers aren't too great so I can't hear the hats and maybe they got lost on this vid, but they're there playing quarters and shifting them around in their own pattern by an 8th here and there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCZ0IawI3Fs

The guy who replaced me in this band after I quit tried it with a double pedal and it just didn't hit the spot for me. Suppose I could be biased, tho...

Polly, love the cowbell bit! lol
 
MikeM said:
...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCZ0IawI3Fs
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That's the one I heard! You rock big time ... such an animal drummer, yet you seem like such a nice boy. One of life's little mysteries ...

As for the cowbell bit, my view has long been that extra pieces on a kit induce guilt. You feel guilty about not playing them or you feel guilty for hitting them because they're there rather than the song's dictates.

Thing is, if you have an extra cowbell / kick / China / splash etc, and you don't play it at some point then you look a bit silly setting it up and down, aren't you? Meanwhile, as you're playing it feels like the piece in question is constantly whispering "play me play me play me". I, for one, I find that distracting.

Maybe that's why Neil Peart wears that tea cosy on his head? To keep out The Voices ...
 
Pollyanna said:
That's the one I heard! You rock big time ... such an animal drummer, yet you seem like such a nice boy. One of life's little mysteries ...

As for the cowbell bit, my view has long been that extra pieces on a kit induce guilt. You feel guilty about not playing them or you feel guilty for hitting them because they're there rather than the song's dictates.

Thing is, if you have an extra cowbell / kick / China / splash etc, and you don't play it at some point then you look a bit silly setting it up and down, aren't you? Meanwhile, as you're playing it feels like the piece in question is constantly whispering "play me play me play me". I, for one, I find that distracting.

Maybe that's why Neil Peart wears that tea cosy on his head? To keep out The Voices ...
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I think the jury is still out on what a nice boy I am! But thanks!

I agree with the guilt of having different pieces on the kit that don't get used and the distraction that can cause. Having another kick pedal definitely does that to me.

I think Neil Peart needs more than his tea cosy ... maybe a crash helmet with built-in noise (Voice) cancelling headphones!
 
Almost all the bands I listen to right now, use the double pedal tastefully. It is as important to that style of music as any other piece on the drum kit.
 
MikeM said:
The guy who replaced me in this band after I quit tried it with a double pedal and it just didn't hit the spot for me. Suppose I could be biased, tho...
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Glad you quit that band you are a way better musician than they are.

And back to the thread, the reason I don't want a double pedal is for motivation. Yes i want an epic bass drum roll to end a song, who doesn't, but I've gotten pretty good doing it single pedal. The same with almost anytime you would use a double pedal tastefully, excluding metal and prog rock and some nice ostinatos for solos. So I don't play double so I have to get better at single, plus i really don't want to spend $400 on a new pedal, it doesn't even make a new noise.
 
AndyMC said:
Glad you quit that band you are a way better musician than they are.
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Hey thanks, Andy! I'm glad I quit too! It's true the musicianship wasn't super stellar in that band, but some of the songwriting was pretty clever. If guys can't play, they better be able to write, right?
 
I honestly don't know how someone can "Prefer" a single pedal.... I rarely use my slave pedal, but there is no reason not to have it, the only time I use it is during "fill". It just helps fill in the blanks sometimes, I could never use a single again because all of those little blanks I want to fill in with a subtle bass note wouldn't be able to do with a single.


Mainly, I use my double as a single, I don't know why anyone would have to go down to a single pedal to "Force" themselves to not abuse the doubles. You should simple not abuse the doubles.....
 
Since you're primarily using a single pedal now, incorporate the hi hat into your playing more. Practice opening and closing the hi hat with your left foot while playing a groove. Strike the middle of the hi hat pedal board with your heel and and quickly let off. This will open it. Now, to shut it, go back to the position where you normally rest your foot. Do this at a comfortable tempo until you've gained enough independence to put it in a groove. I personally believe drummers who mainly play with a single pedal are better than drummers who mainly play with a double pedal, solely because their independence is stronger. Example: who would you rather listen to all day, Jojo Mayer or George Kollias? I suppose having a double pedal there just for fill purposes wouldn't harm anyone. Todd Sucherman and Steve Smith both have double pedals, but they don't rely on them.
 
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