Drummers who QUANTIZE recorded drums

haroldo_psf said:
I asked Gavin Harrison... this is a copy and paste :



Hi haroldo_psf

I am a newbie hobbyist drummer (and big time PT fan). I just heard the term "quantizing" and what it is, and also learned that it is hard to find nowadays records in which the drums were not quantized. My world is crumbing here.

Do you quantize your drums, or are they "el natural"? :)

(Gavin)
Yes everything I've ever recorded has been quantised.
Click to expand...

I'm rather surprised at Gavin's answer.

Part of me thinks he's pulling your leg, but he didn't really leave that comment open to any interpretation.
 
haroldo_psf said:
Are you tripping? You must have misunderstood me. I'm just part of the friendly discussion learning about this. Take a chill pill.
Click to expand...

Then why did you write that "your world was crumbling down"? Makes me to believe that it's a really big deal for you, which it shouldn't be.
 
DrumEatDrum said:
I'm rather surprised at Gavin's answer.

Part of me thinks he's pulling your leg, but he didn't really leave that comment open to any interpretation.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised too. Still, with the complexity he deals with, playing those parts close enough to be quantised without sounding horrible is an achievement in itself. The shifts would be minuscule (unless he was taking the piss). Also, if Robert Fripp hires him, you know his timing and tempo are top drawer. That's one of his criteria. People were surprised that Pat Mastelotto pipped Michael Giles for the Crimson gig, but Pat's perfect time was the clincher.
 
In Gavin's defense, I would like to think he would do this only because his producer pressures him into it, rather than prefering it. It's the music industry, not the drummer pushing this kind of stuff. The same music industry that took music from it's zenith in the 1970s to the train wreck it is in right now, I might add.

Now let me go back and listen to some more cartoonish robotic drums on the radio................
 
Bo Eder said:
Hell, I'm being quantized right now ;)

It never occurred to me to quantize actual drum recorded notes. It was always something done to MIDI performances that weren't very clean. Wow that ProTools is just incredible....
Click to expand...

Shifting audio is certainly do-able, but obviously not as ideal as quantizing midi. Depending how much something needs to be moved, or if a kick and snare are in different places and need to be lined-up, there can be some bleed through other mics whose tracks don't need to be moved but contain that snare or kick, and will result in some flamming. At best, a little copy&paste in those associated tracks can help eliminate the 'ghost' notes. As always, adjustments need to be made judiciously, or they can sound choppy.

Bermuda
 
I'm pretty surprised by his answer, too. I would be curious to know to what degree his stuff is quantized; like a before and after recording. Or even just knowing if it's a stray hit here and there that gets roped in.

I know he records everything to a click and that much has been discernible to my ears, but actually quantized? Is that what I was hearing? I dunno...
 
Thaard said:
Then why did you write that "your world was crumbling down"? Makes me to believe that it's a really big deal for you, which it shouldn't be.
Click to expand...

That was mostly humor, man. Take it easy, you'll give yourself a heart attack
 
Haroldo, if Thaard took it any easier he'd be asleep.

About Gavin, hearing his clips on YouTube, I have a feeling that the quantising may be subtle enough that he might pick up some issues that I wouldn't. He has very crisp timing to my ear and very likely a microscopic ear (not physically haha).
 
To everyone that was going mental about Gavin using quantizing, should check out his thread once more.
 
If it keeps real drums & real drummers in a happy place withing the recording industry, then I'm all for it. As a principal, I don't like it, & certainly anything that sterilises a performance is a personal turn off. If you need to play your recorded material live, you'd be wize not use the facility too much. Better to get the performance right, then that will benefit any subsequent recording vibe too.
 
Yeah, the, "I've used it on everything I've ever recorded" should have been the tip-off.

I thought there might have been another use for quantizing or some kind of trick that I wasn't aware of that qualified. Good to know!
 
Wow, it looks like everyone has something to say!
In my case I quantized or quantised my drums in one song (sorry, my native lenguage is not english)
It helped, this song got me really worried because of its level of difficulty, so it made me happy to know that it will sound good, although I couldnt play it very well.
I really did not like it before it was quantised, so now it seems positive to me, since now I enjoy the result. It didn't hurt my feelings or my pride.
I wouldn't do that with all the songs and I can assure that I will work on this particular song so I can play it as it will sound in the record. I think thats the most important thing, this helped me to start trying to get better, that cant be bad, right?
But I have to say that it would really surprise me (not to say disappoint me... but...) if I found out that a proffesional drummer do it in a regular basis.
So I guess I agree with most of the people in the discussion, eventhough I "cheated"!!!
What can I say... I'm no Vinnie Colaiuta!
Thanks for the info!!!
 
I own dozens of live DVDs and CDs of bands in concert. I love to listen to recordings of live music because of the intracasies and innovation displayed by musicians at the spur of the moment. Most people, especially non-musicians, only want to listen to the studio version of the songs they like. And deviations from that causes heartache. Even during concert, if the band plays something any different than what they know, that ruins the experience for them.

The question is whether or not an average music fan would know whether or not they are listening to quantised drums.
 
When I do home recordings I quantize all the time, if I'm trying to do a serious recording... mostly because I'm not all that great at drums. However, I typically only quantize the notes that are very obviously off-time. If there's a few real minor errors then I'll usually leave it be.

I don't really understand the people that are against quantizing but all for punching-in as many times as it takes to get it perfect. Punch-in is great if you completely screw up, but if you're punching in to fix small timing issues then I really don't see the difference. I'm still pretty newbish with the whole mixing process, but I find it far faster to go ahead and quantize the the screwed up bits rather than punch-in, re-record, etc and the results for me typically come out a little cleaner.
 
If I have a good engineer at the controls, I will quantize my parts until the return of Christ. If, on the other hand, I have to do the engineering, then I avoid it, because I'm terrible at getting it to sound any good. It's a lot easier and cleaner when I'm on my own to just lock in with the click, and build the rest of the song on the meter of the drums.
 
Damn you sheep will really listen to anything... Gavin quantizing? Really? Do you have ears of your own? If you listen to a track and can't tell whether a metronome's been used or not, then f*ck, you have a lot more listening to do.*

What's ironic in all this is we now have audio engineers spending a load of time figuring out "studio magic" and how to fix drum tracks to the point where the general public doesn't know the difference, instead of hiring a drummer who's spent a load of time figuring out how to play.

*Yup I realize quantizing is different then a click, but both result in a sterile-sounding recording. I'd take a skilled drummer's internal time than a click on a recording every day of the week.
 
Ethan01 said:
Damn you sheep will really listen to anything... Gavin quantizing? Really? Do you have ears of your own? If you listen to a track and can't tell whether a metronome's been used or not, then f*ck, you have a lot more listening to do.*
Click to expand...

Haha ... in my defence, I'd made it clear that I couldn't hear it in his playing and suggested that the fault may have been with my ears.

Baaaa baaaa-aaaa
 
inneedofgrace said:
The question is whether or not an average music fan would know whether or not they are listening to quantised drums.
Click to expand...

Probably not, they just know if something sounds good to them. That's how I judge music: I like something, or I don't... it makes me feel good, or it doesn't. If I had to make my listening choices based on a specific level of the performance, there'd be a ton of artists I couldn't listen to. And as an experienced drummer and listener, I obviously recognize problems in older recordings in particular. But I also accept that they're a sign of the particular times, and there's often a certain charm to them.

Phat_Rolls said:
Punch-in is great if you completely screw up, but if you're punching in to fix small timing issues then I really don't see the difference.
Click to expand...

Where is the line drawn? And does that line apply differently to drums, guitar, horns, vocals? I think the criteria should be, how much does something stick out, and is it actually noticeable to the listener. But typically the standard is, as long as it sticks out to the artist, it must be fixed.

Ethan01 said:
Yup I realize quantizing is different then a click, but both result in a sterile-sounding recording. I'd take a skilled drummer's internal time than a click on a recording every day of the week.
Click to expand...

A click doesn't automatically make a track sterile, in fact it's the skilled drummers who work with a click and make it sound natural. It's also a fact that a lot of drummers simply don't have good enough time to record on the fly, and in those cases, the click causes too much pusshing and pulling. The alternative is an organic track that speeds and slows noticeably, and sounds horrible. In short, a click dosn't hurt a good drummer, and doesn't help a bad one.

Bermuda
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top