ok firstly i would like to say, i currently have a double bass pedal. i am looking to upgrade because i think my pedal isnt that good any more but then i also thought of expanding or getting a new kit. however i need advice on should i get a new double bass pedal and save some cash, or alternativly buy a comleate new kit(with double bass drum(S)) this has been a problem for a while because of tuning and general annoyance. however it would me awesome to finaly get the new kit, making what i play (Metal) alot more... forfilling. any way can you help???? i am currently running a pearl forums kit. upgrades two toms 10" and 18" dw double basspedal. 13" snare pearl vision. and a mix of sabain and zildjian cymbals. any advice??...
double bass drum or pedal?
- Thread starter jldrumxp
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metal overlord
Gold Member
I'd go with double bass. That's just me though.
well giging yeh. i ahve the money and space so double drum kit?
m1ck
Senior Member
I debated this also. I like the visual impact of a double bass kit. But -
It means a larger footprint and another big drum to haul around. It means tuning two bass drums exactly the same and replacing another set of heads every time you switch.
The only reason for two drums that makes sense is rebound - you basically have twice the recovery time between strokes which some players say makes a difference at high speeds. I can't play fast enough for that to be an issue, so I wouldn't know. I've also seen some crazy fast players using a double pedal on one drum and it seems to work fine.
Some would also argue that shaft-driven slave pedals are inherently imperfect. But again, many professionals use them.
Drumming is not an entirely rational pursuit. It's an art and a passion. So you may as well get what you WANT because that's what will make you happy. There's no point living with a kit that isn't what you want, no matter how practical it is.
It means a larger footprint and another big drum to haul around. It means tuning two bass drums exactly the same and replacing another set of heads every time you switch.
The only reason for two drums that makes sense is rebound - you basically have twice the recovery time between strokes which some players say makes a difference at high speeds. I can't play fast enough for that to be an issue, so I wouldn't know. I've also seen some crazy fast players using a double pedal on one drum and it seems to work fine.
Some would also argue that shaft-driven slave pedals are inherently imperfect. But again, many professionals use them.
Drumming is not an entirely rational pursuit. It's an art and a passion. So you may as well get what you WANT because that's what will make you happy. There's no point living with a kit that isn't what you want, no matter how practical it is.
Mastershake16
Senior Member
I'd say pedal save some money, don't have to haul as much, less tuning, and only one head when it breaks, maybe get an aquarian double bass impact pad?
just my two cents,
if money isn't an option i'd suggest a DW 9002 pedal, when i get a new pedal thats what itll be a bit pricey though but definately seems to be worth it
just my two cents,
if money isn't an option i'd suggest a DW 9002 pedal, when i get a new pedal thats what itll be a bit pricey though but definately seems to be worth it
There are 3 additional instances where having a 2nd kick is a disadvantage:
1) When mic'd, the sound guy has to have an extra kick mic, and a spare channel on his board.
2) A 2nd kick makes hi-hat stand placement trickier than just working around a slave pedal.
3) The audience perception of 2 kicks is that some amazing footwork can be expected. If you can't use them well, the effect is decreased. But with one kick, and just decent footwork, the effect is heightened.
Actually, the only advantage/reason I can think of for having 2 (or more) kicks is to tune them differently as required for the music. Of course, in the case of classic double-bass rock drummers like Ginger Baker and Carmine who weren't playing melodic bass drums, there simply wasn't a viable double pedal in their heyday. Those drummers had to use 2 kicks and 2 pedals.
But... if you have the cash, the space in your practice area, extra space on stage (or the riser) when doing gigs, a way to transport the 2nd kick, a sound guy with 2 kick mics and a spare channel on the mixer, and you can play like you should have 2 kicks to begin with... then I don't want to kill your spirit.
I almost forgot - my real answer is: get the double pedal.
Bermuda
1) When mic'd, the sound guy has to have an extra kick mic, and a spare channel on his board.
2) A 2nd kick makes hi-hat stand placement trickier than just working around a slave pedal.
3) The audience perception of 2 kicks is that some amazing footwork can be expected. If you can't use them well, the effect is decreased. But with one kick, and just decent footwork, the effect is heightened.
Actually, the only advantage/reason I can think of for having 2 (or more) kicks is to tune them differently as required for the music. Of course, in the case of classic double-bass rock drummers like Ginger Baker and Carmine who weren't playing melodic bass drums, there simply wasn't a viable double pedal in their heyday. Those drummers had to use 2 kicks and 2 pedals.
But... if you have the cash, the space in your practice area, extra space on stage (or the riser) when doing gigs, a way to transport the 2nd kick, a sound guy with 2 kick mics and a spare channel on the mixer, and you can play like you should have 2 kicks to begin with... then I don't want to kill your spirit.
I almost forgot - my real answer is: get the double pedal.
Bermuda
drumguyfromWI
Senior Member
If you have the money to blow and don't mind having to spend a long time tuning the two bass drums to match each other and don't mind lugging two bass drums around to gigs, then go with the two bass drums.
now personally, I stick with single bass.
but if i was to go double, I'd just get a double pedal, because I'm almost broke, hate tuning drums, and already have more than enough stuff to carry up the three (!!!) flights of stairs that my local music venue has.
now personally, I stick with single bass.
but if i was to go double, I'd just get a double pedal, because I'm almost broke, hate tuning drums, and already have more than enough stuff to carry up the three (!!!) flights of stairs that my local music venue has.
yeah but what type of music do you play? because i drum metal i need the double bass so for you a single bass is fine unless you do the single bass slide teqneque. which sucks tbh. but yeah double bass. i need lol.
konaboy
Pioneer Member
He mentioned that it's a DW but didn't say what model, that's what I'm curious about as well.
T
trkdrmr
Guest
Hmm.. I think I just heard the grandmaster Buddy Rich rolling over in his grave...
Hmm...so you are saying that Virgil Donati, Marco Minnemann, Bobby Jarzombek, Vinnie Coliauta and Thomas Lang's ULTRA fast and articulate double-pedal technique needs two kicks? Single kick technique? So, those guys suck and you rule? I just need to make sure your statement is clear.
EDIT: I wrote the top part after putting in over 90 hours this week. I just want to make sure that I am interpreting your post right and that metal can't be played on a single kick?
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Class A Drummer
Pioneer Member
It depends on whether you are willing to spend all the extra money or not, when you can just buy a nicer double pedal. Also, its one more huge drum you have to move around whenever you have a gig or something.
Many people say the feel is much better with a double bass drum setup though, but idk.
Many people say the feel is much better with a double bass drum setup though, but idk.
T
ThisSpitefulSnake
Guest
If you have the money, unlike me, I'd go with the double bass drums. I've heard it's more comfortable to play as there is more rebound and it sounds better because there is a separate drum for each kick.
T
trkdrmr
Guest
When I saw Virgil Donati, I was probably 15 feet away while he played. That cat has lightning feet in addition to brutal chops. On his single Pearl kick drum, everything he played was articulate. And he made it a point to set the metronome very high, and sustain a high speed, single-stroke beat. I heard everything very distinctively. I am sure there is a slight difference, but it didn't seem to matter. I can't imagine listening to anything that would be called "music" if it was played faster that Virgil was that day. He's a machine. The guys that play at umpteen BPM, tend to use a metal patch anyway so you hear a series of clicks or zero-resonance thumps, not any form of subtle or articulate tonality.
I guess what I am saying is, is that two kicks really aren't a necessity past visual purposes. They are a nicety I suppose, but since the Trick pedal is actually two full pedals, there is no drone pedal lag. It's pretty much like playing two pedals.
razorx
Platinum Member
Hmm im guessing a 4000
tybaker5150
Junior Member
I recently (today) Purchased my first double bass pedal. Its a $200 Pearl that was marked 1/2 off over at Guitar Center. But, theres some good and bad things about the question.
For example; Double bass pedals are typically the cheapest, most room sufficent way to have a "double bass". But, If neither of those is an issue, then id have two bass drums. Ive heard that you get a better tone that way, because the drum is vibrating a lot less since your playing 8th notes on each drum instead of 16ths on the same drum. Plus, ive heard its more comfortable to play if your kit is set up that way.And, since theres 2 different drums for each kick, you can change the pitch So that the left bass is higher or lower than the right. Then use a double bass if you want the same pitch for a series of tripplettes or 16ths on the right or left bass (if your a lefty). It really just all depends on you. Dont try to model everyone else. Your never gonna sound like them. Sound like yourself.
For example; Double bass pedals are typically the cheapest, most room sufficent way to have a "double bass". But, If neither of those is an issue, then id have two bass drums. Ive heard that you get a better tone that way, because the drum is vibrating a lot less since your playing 8th notes on each drum instead of 16ths on the same drum. Plus, ive heard its more comfortable to play if your kit is set up that way.And, since theres 2 different drums for each kick, you can change the pitch So that the left bass is higher or lower than the right. Then use a double bass if you want the same pitch for a series of tripplettes or 16ths on the right or left bass (if your a lefty). It really just all depends on you. Dont try to model everyone else. Your never gonna sound like them. Sound like yourself.
SabianDrummer
Member
well i personally like having just a double bass pedal #1 they are cheaper and #2 u have to constantly tune the 2 bass drums so they sound the same or else they sound crappy
T
trkdrmr
Guest
Well a counterpoint here. I have never, ever seen a deathmetal drummer concerned with "tone." (deathmetal/speedmetal all the high speed "metal" playing)The drums are damped, and set up for staccato notes, not sustain. Sustain would blur the effect of high speed playing anyway. So, tone is not an issue.
Second, a 2nd kick is never, ever more ergonomic or comfortable. It takes what could be a compact setup, and spreads it out, sometimes very uncomfortably so. There is jockying position of the hi hat as well so the stance isn't too wide.
And once again, I point to the example of Virgil Donati and Mike Mangini. I have heard them play ludicrously fast on one unmiked kick. Sounded almost insultingly clean and perfect in time. They made it look easy. If you can play faster and more articulately than those guys on two kicks, please post a video, WFD wants you.
If you like/want two kicks, go for it...it's what you want. However, to say they are necessary, I cannot agree with. I agree with all the disadvantages listed above.