Band drama

[motojosh]

Yes, download LiveBPM to your smart phone. I use it when ever I play with musicians I have never played with before. Especially at rehearsals.
It helps me maintain the tempo. Or at least I know that the tempo has changed a bit.
Don't stress out about a 2 or 3 Beats Per Minute variation at like 80 BPM.


.

Agreed--playing to a click is one thing, but measuring your tempo when you're NOT using a click is a whole different story.

It's great when someone asks whether the tempo changed during a song, and I can point to the LiveBPM graph and show them that it did not (significantly) change. (Or, if it's a bad night, it proves to me that I was indeed the problem. Good for keeping my own ego in check...)

 

[Living Dead Drummer]

Hey guys, I’ve been a casual drummer for years but have found myself playing in a mediocre cover band. I admit I’ve played to a metronome about a total of a dozen times in my life and know 0 rudiments. I do sing, play guitar, bass, uke, etc. so I feel like I have a decent ear for music. A member of the band has been hinting at me not keeping the beat and honestly I think it’s him;not me. We’ve gone toe to toe with a metronome before and I’ve been right. I’m willing to practice to a metronome but this guy refuses to give me BPMs for the songs. As soon as I play to a BPM he says he likes, we get to the chorus or the bridge and he says are we still on beat? Yes, yes we are. I’m super annoyed. What do I do??

Record band practice, either audio or video and review the tape after like a sports team does. Then you will be able to pick out all the little bits that you may miss while in the moment.

 

[opentune]

Yes get Live BPM. Play along with Live BPM with your band and check your time. Very revealing. Its also useful to see how long you can hold time without having the support of a metronome. Time can be elastic, but the whole band should be elastic, not just one member.

 

[Tamaefx]

I also use Live BPM during rehearsals ; it helps me get on better with my bassist. Live BPM is much less intrusive than a metronome. It's just a control.
I know my tempo moves, but with Live BPM I try to say within 3 to 4 points during a song.

 

[Woolwich]

I love Live BPM and I’d consider setting it up on an iPad or tablet for everyone to see. I also believe it’s everyones responsibility to keep time, not just the drummer’s. The only potential pitfall of Live BPM if there’s conflict in the band is that if other members speed up or slow down and you go with them then they might point at the graph and then point at you saying it’s your fault. Just a consideration. In a band where everyone’s matey and pulling together and you’re more in a position to stick to your guns then this won’t happen but I feel that your situation isn’t like that.
Playing to a metronome might take that element out of the situation. It’s not perfect as the tempo does need to be pushed and pulled in some songs, however if you’re playing a nice steady Rock song that doesn’t have a bridge, break or pushed chorus then that should work.
Thinking out loud here, how about using a combination of the two? Use Live BPM to establish the tempo of the original song and to establish that it’s a steady tempo throughout, then you play to a metronome set to that tempo. The problem is that even as I type this I’m thinking that if you need to go to those lengths then it might already be a lost cause :-(

 

[hawksmoor]

Another vote for Live BPM here. But if you want to give it a go, don't stress if the graph doesn't look completely straight (it never will) because it goes in increments of a BPM. So if you play a song at 96 BPM, even if the tempo fluctuates between, say 96.74 and 96.12, the graph at the end of the song will still look like a lie detector test!

 

[JustJames]

Is the drama that the tempo wavers, and that causes drama?

Or is it that there is disagreement as to what the tempo should be?

Or that the band as a whole is slowing/speeding during the song?

OP, you've said that you already record rehearsals; that should be all you need to settle any difference of opinion. Play it back, and everybody should listen to what's going on.

LiveBPM is great; I use it particularly in the early phase of learning a song to rein in the tempo. But as others here have said, "time is in the room". The drummer is there to emphasise the pulse, and not to keep time for the band.

 

[mikyok]

You hit the nail on the head with mediocre cover band.

The support is there because we've ALL been there, seen it, done it and got the t-shirt.

It's a fairly common complaint when you have a really crap musician who can't count for shit but has a messianic complex. Empty pipes make the most noise!

Play devils advocate and pull him up on bad tuning and bum notes.

Some of the covers stuff I do is played slower and faster than the original and guess what nobody notices. If anyone sat there with a metronome they'd spend the rest of their life like the crocodile from Peter Pan.

Sod playing everything faster, that means you need to play more songs. Don't think I'd be in your band for very long and neither should you.

What does this 'Mozart' play BTW, the ego reeks of guitar but the stupidity is saying bass.

 

[philrudd]

At the risk of being repetitive, can I cast one more vote for LiveBPM?

I love that app! I downloaded it just a few weeks ago, and it's been a fantastic tool. The truth is that using the app has given me a lot more confidence - I felt my time was decent, but questioned myself frequently. And as Larry noted, as soon as you begin questioning your time...THAT'S when you start screwing up.

I found that most songs I play vary by about two BPM over the course of the song, and I'm very comfortable with that margin of error. Further, we play some songs with crazy bridges that have drastic tempo changes, and I was always wondering whether we were able to return to the original tempo when the verse came back in. This app showed me that we were much better at 'retrieving' tempos than I'd thought.

It's taught me to trust what I feel, stop questioning so much and just play! Don't get me wrong; I still work on my time when I practice - the metronome has been my best friend for the past year or so - but this app has been proof positive that all the work has been worth it. Best $3 I've ever spent.

And to bring it back around to the point of the thread - I've used it to show my band the same things I've discovered, and it's given everyone a boost of confidence. (Though truth to tell they've very rarely made any kind of commentary on my timekeeping. Nice bunch of fellas.)

 

[Patoloco714]

You hit the nail on the head with mediocre cover band.

The support is there because we've ALL been there, seen it, done it and got the t-shirt.

It's a fairly common complaint when you have a really crap musician who can't count for shit but has a messianic complex. Empty pipes make the most noise!

Play devils advocate and pull him up on bad tuning and bum notes.

Some of the covers stuff I do is played slower and faster than the original and guess what nobody notices. If anyone sat there with a metronome they'd spend the rest of their life like the crocodile from Peter Pan.

Sod playing everything faster, that means you need to play more songs. Don't think I'd be in your band for very long and neither should you.

What does this 'Mozart' play BTW, the ego reeks of guitar but the stupidity is saying bass.

Hahahaha Ah! You made my day. I was trying to hold back due to the lack of anonymity of the internet but you nailed it. He’s a Guitarist/“vocalist”. I agree with you, the recording is all I need for my purposes at this point. And so far I can tap my foot to the recordings just fine. You made me realize a lot with your post. This guys a crap singer and he’s starting to hear it I think with every recording I play back to him, or every time I sing a harmony but he’s flat so it sounds like crap...etc. Etc. His accusations might really just be a defense mechanism mixed with incompetence. Really a lot of food for thought...yes this band isn’t ideal but I had kept my drums at my parents house collecting dust and wanted an opportunity to be able to enjoy my hobby like I used to be able to pre-apartment life. So far this band has givien me that. The juice just might not be worth the squeeze though. I dread practice and only look forward to playing songs at shows in between the singer’s cringey monologues with some poor girl in the bar.

 

[Sebenza]

At the risk of being repetitive, can I cast one more vote for LiveBPM?

I love that app! I downloaded it just a few weeks ago, and it's been a fantastic tool. The truth is that using the app has given me a lot more confidence - I felt my time was decent, but questioned myself frequently. And as Larry noted, as soon as you begin questioning your time...THAT'S when you start screwing up.

I found that most songs I play vary by about two BPM over the course of the song, and I'm very comfortable with that margin of error. Further, we play some songs with crazy bridges that have drastic tempo changes, and I was always wondering whether we were able to return to the original tempo when the verse came back in. This app showed me that we were much better at 'retrieving' tempos than I'd thought.

It's taught me to trust what I feel, stop questioning so much and just play! Don't get me wrong; I still work on my time when I practice - the metronome has been my best friend for the past year or so - but this app has been proof positive that all the work has been worth it. Best $3 I've ever spent.

And to bring it back around to the point of the thread - I've used it to show my band the same things I've discovered, and it's given everyone a boost of confidence. (Though truth to tell they've very rarely made any kind of commentary on my timekeeping. Nice bunch of fellas.)

Do you continuously check the app and thus make micro adjustments, whether conscious of it or not, or do you refrain from looking at it untill the song is finished? I haven't used it, but if it displays the whole song as a graph, it seems to me the latter would be a more accurate assesment of how good one's timing actually is.

 

[Patoloco714]

At the risk of being repetitive, can I cast one more vote for LiveBPM?

I love that app! I downloaded it just a few weeks ago, and it's been a fantastic tool. The truth is that using the app has given me a lot more confidence - I felt my time was decent, but questioned myself frequently. And as Larry noted, as soon as you begin questioning your time...THAT'S when you start screwing up.

I found that most songs I play vary by about two BPM over the course of the song, and I'm very comfortable with that margin of error. Further, we play some songs with crazy bridges that have drastic tempo changes, and I was always wondering whether we were able to return to the original tempo when the verse came back in. This app showed me that we were much better at 'retrieving' tempos than I'd thought.

It's taught me to trust what I feel, stop questioning so much and just play! Don't get me wrong; I still work on my time when I practice - the metronome has been my best friend for the past year or so - but this app has been proof positive that all the work has been worth it. Best $3 I've ever spent.

And to bring it back around to the point of the thread - I've used it to show my band the same things I've discovered, and it's given everyone a boost of confidence. (Though truth to tell they've very rarely made any kind of commentary on my timekeeping. Nice bunch of fellas.)

Haha I’ll
Definitely get the app. What a unanimous decision from the forum. Love that.

 

[opentune]

Do you continuously check the app and thus make micro adjustments, whether conscious of it or not, or do you refrain from looking at it untill the song is finished? I haven't used it, but if it displays the whole song as a graph, it seems to me the latter would be a more accurate assesment of how good one's timing actually is.

Yes, don't cheat. Look at it after songs and see how you all did.

The famous scenario at rehearsal is:
bassist- 'I think that song was a a tad slow'
guitarist - 'well it damn sure seemed to drag during my solos'
vocalist - 'no that entire song was WAY too slow'
drummer - (checks live BPM) 'ummm no, that was actually spot on, see?'

 

[KamaK]

In a cover band:

Every song has a BPM. If there isn't a consensus, take it upon yourself to find it and write it down.

Program the songs and BPM into your phone or whatever you use to set time.

For songs that are started by a guitarist or other instrument, provide a reference click before they start the intro to give them a baseline.

Record everything, always. Use your ears and liveBPM for post-show analysis.

A lot of time, when a non-drummer tells you he thinks the song is dragging, it's not due to a loss of BPM, rather a loss of swing, a drop in intensity, a lazy snare, or some other factor that causes the feel to be off which they interpret it as a loss of BPM. It is often as simple as the bass player speeding up being perceived as the drummer slowing down.

 

[New Tricks]

LOTS of GOLD in here!

First, you have to get the guys to agree that the metronome is the LAST WORD on tempo.

Embrace the click

Yup, play a click through the PA.

IMO, the most simple solution

You touched on the biggest obstacle of this band in general. EGO!

Possibly the most accurate assesment of any dramatic situation

Ah, if only it were that easy. This guy refuses to play the “cover” songs at the normal speeds cuz “people like to dance”. �� he likes about 5 bpm faster. ����*

He probably knows better than the professionals that engineer and design the hell out of popular music

The band that has a drummer who also plays something else is very lucky!

Indeed. A drummer that is proficient at other instruments is a keeper.

His accusations might really just be a defense mechanism mixed with incompetence.

Bingo^

 

[beyondbetrayal]

record your part to a click. (don't record the click) have them say it sounds good. have them play to it.... individually and call out who is off.

I play to a click every day when i practice, when someone in the band is off 99% of the time it isn't me. I think confidence helps. I KNOW when I am off so it isn't really an issue of pointing fingers. I have had members swear they are in time, but then when we break it down we figure it out.

If they hear the click too it might help them.

If I don't have a click I'll naturally speed up a bit live,or play the songs on the fast side. but i'm not going "out of time" if that makes sense.

 

[Patoloco714]

Lots of gold indeed. So now, the cover band you signed up for originally, has a member who’s found his muse and has a new goal to make half of the setlist original songs. Is there a tactful way to say, “Dude, I’d be embarrassed to play any of these turds in front of anyone.”? Yeah, I know. I should just quit, huh?

 

[JustJames]

Lots of gold indeed. So now, the cover band you signed up for originally, has a member who’s found his muse and has a new goal to make half of the setlist original songs. Is there a tactful way to say, “Dude, I’d be embarrassed to play any of these turds in front of anyone.”? Yeah, I know. I should just quit, huh?

Polite option 1: This band isn't going in the direction I signed up for, and this is not what I want to do. Bye.

Polite option 2: Discussion with all of the band. Discuss whether you want to play covers (to entertain) or original songs (to 'educate' audiences). The second is generally harder to get gigs.

Not so polite option 3: You're a deluded bunch of losers with no talent and an appalling case of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and I'd rather sit in a darkened room sticking rock splinters into my eyes than carry on with this representation of the ninth circle of hell. See ya!

(Only wrap it up a little nicer, because you don't know how the future will pan out.)

 

[Woolwich]

Polite option 1: This band isn't going in the direction I signed up for, and this is not what I want to do. Bye.

Polite option 2: Discussion with all of the band. Discuss whether you want to play covers (to entertain) or original songs (to 'educate' audiences). The second is generally harder to get gigs.

Not so polite option 3: You're a deluded bunch of losers with no talent and an appalling case of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and I'd rather sit in a darkened room sticking rock splinters into my eyes than carry on with this representation of the ninth circle of hell. See ya!

(Only wrap it up a little nicer, because you don't know how the future will pan out.)

Just James beat me to it.
Polite option 1, it’s no longer what you “signed up for” so thanks but you think it’s best to leave now so they can find the right drummer rather than leave them in the lurch further down the line. See you guys around, keep in touch, you never know when your paths may cross again or when one of the band who is a decent musician might contact you because he’s had enough too.

 

[mikyok]

Hahahaha Ah! You made my day. I was trying to hold back due to the lack of anonymity of the internet but you nailed it. He’s a Guitarist/“vocalist”. I agree with you, the recording is all I need for my purposes at this point. And so far I can tap my foot to the recordings just fine. You made me realize a lot with your post. This guys a crap singer and he’s starting to hear it I think with every recording I play back to him, or every time I sing a harmony but he’s flat so it sounds like crap...etc. Etc. His accusations might really just be a defense mechanism mixed with incompetence. Really a lot of food for thought...yes this band isn’t ideal but I had kept my drums at my parents house collecting dust and wanted an opportunity to be able to enjoy my hobby like I used to be able to pre-apartment life. So far this band has givien me that. The juice just might not be worth the squeeze though. I dread practice and only look forward to playing songs at shows in between the singer’s cringey monologues with some poor girl in the bar.

Dude get out, there's loads of covers bands out there. All about enjoying yourself and making a few quid at the same time.

If you're playing covers and take yourself seriously then your 'singer' is in the wrong game. Sounds like he is using the band to massage his ego.

Best advice is to get in a band that has a laugh at what they do. It makes the good gigs great and the bad gigs tolerable. There's too many idiots in music and life is way too short to suffer them.