The difference, Shemp, is that Andy built his reputation on here long before he was involved in Guru drums. If it was a new poster aggressively marketing, it would be different. Neither was the case.
An attempt at a policy change here
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opentune
Platinum Member
Well, this is all kind of sad.
I for one liked seeing a new Pork Pie, Guru even some "custom Louis" drum, or innovation, even though I had NO intention of buying it. It's just info! If a member misconstrues that as 'sales' then that is their take. But if they don't like their take on it .....click somewhere else.
If you don't like the JFK conspiracy thread , leave it and open another... right?
I for one liked seeing a new Pork Pie, Guru even some "custom Louis" drum, or innovation, even though I had NO intention of buying it. It's just info! If a member misconstrues that as 'sales' then that is their take. But if they don't like their take on it .....click somewhere else.
If you don't like the JFK conspiracy thread , leave it and open another... right?
shemp
Silver Member
I think what I did was express an opinion about something...if you don't like my opinion or the result of my comment, then you find that I am less than a good person...
If you apply some logic to that, it might put you in a rather dim light. think about it
shemp
Silver Member
That is not a cogent point or application...it does not matter what the genesis is...this is not a popularity contest...its a logical discussion that says that someone was marketing their product through use of a community
The answer is a resounding yes....the rest is gratuitous information...
DrumEatDrum
Platinum Member
The music business contains two words "music" and "business".
Both get discussed here quite frequently. And while I think money has a bad habit of ruining art, none the less, business is part of making music.
So we discuss the business aspect of music frequently here. The good, the bad, things we observe, and things we are involved in.
Inevitably someone questions why. But business 1/2 the conversation when discussing the music business. If we can't discuss it freely without someone taking offense, then 1/2 our conversations are gone.
If you don't like a topic, don't read it.
Both get discussed here quite frequently. And while I think money has a bad habit of ruining art, none the less, business is part of making music.
So we discuss the business aspect of music frequently here. The good, the bad, things we observe, and things we are involved in.
Inevitably someone questions why. But business 1/2 the conversation when discussing the music business. If we can't discuss it freely without someone taking offense, then 1/2 our conversations are gone.
If you don't like a topic, don't read it.
Opinion or not, ever heard the saying "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all?"
Larry
"Uncle Larry"
I guess. I don't think you will win the hearts of the people here with your actions.
So yea a sub forum so we can put this thing to bed.
shemp
Silver Member
nope...not insinuating that you are a dick...it serves no purpose and I don't even know you. I'm just sticking up for my opinion. You may be a great person....I will not insult...but I will point out what I feel are inequities in the way I am being communicated with...
No insult whatsoever intended...useless
No, I'm throwing insults at you because you've really struck a nerve.
If you're trolling, job done. Nice work.
If you're trolling, job done. Nice work.
Stroman
Diamond Member
I didn't say it wasn't marketing. I said it wasn't trickery, nor do I agree with you that someone marketing their wares here is necessarily wrong. That is one of the functions of this community, IMO.
And yes, I do think it matters how long you've been here. When newcomers join a community and become a disruptive influence without taking the time to understand and become part of the culture, it is problematic. It's bad for everyone. Further, this isn't YOUR forum to decide what should continue and what needs to stop. You are welcome to voice your opinion, of course, no matter how long you've been here. And I commend you for doing so respectfully. But I will not afford your opinion the same credibility and weight that I would afford a long-time member in good standing. That's the way communities work.
shemp
Silver Member
Larry, I;m not here because I;m looking to be accepted or to be part of a popularity contest...I don;t need validation from this community.
It is a place for me to learn....I have learned from you as a matter of fact. good stuff...but it is also a place for me to state my opinion....and I did...and the marketing *was* happening...
Everyone is different...I will comment on things I feel are inequitable. If that means folks will dislike me for having a contrary opinion to theirs, then it is fine.
I'm sure there are others that feel as I do....I will find my way around here and will continue to learn, state my opinion and communicate.
Sorry if you don't like my opinion, but I don't need you to like it...honestly I don';t need you to like me; that is not ideal, but it will not nor should it stop someone from stating an opinion or pointing something out that is distasteful to them.
Muckster
Platinum Member
I had no problem with Andy's post. He certainly has contributed his knowledge and expertise to many points of discussion on this forum from playing drums to running a business. I agree with a previous comment....i wouldn't find out about many drum related products if it wasn't for this forum.
Take a look around, product is all over this forum. Is Brady Drums next? BTW Kelley, love the walk about video!
There have been a few members on this forum that solely used DW for a marketing campaign. We would never hear from them until they were trying to sell a new product. I even called one "well known" pro drummer out on it.
I'm more disappointed that Andy felt he had to cave.
I agree with Uncle Larry......don't ban, create a sub forum!
Muckster plays: TAMA DRUMS, ZILDJIAN CYMBALS, TRICK PEDALS,EVANS HEADS, VIC FIRTH STICKS.
Take a look around, product is all over this forum. Is Brady Drums next? BTW Kelley, love the walk about video!
There have been a few members on this forum that solely used DW for a marketing campaign. We would never hear from them until they were trying to sell a new product. I even called one "well known" pro drummer out on it.
I'm more disappointed that Andy felt he had to cave.
I agree with Uncle Larry......don't ban, create a sub forum!
Muckster plays: TAMA DRUMS, ZILDJIAN CYMBALS, TRICK PEDALS,EVANS HEADS, VIC FIRTH STICKS.
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Us too, and what Andy brought to the table with Guru allowed those of us interested to LEARN about advancements in the drum industry. Now we can't, because you ruined that for us.
Anon La Ply
Diamond Member
Haven't read it all - even I don't have that much time. However, I can say that this is a 100% pedigree balls-up and I'll tell you why. Clear communication should sort this out in 5 minutes.
Shemp, I fully understand where you're coming from. A desire for fair dealings.
Andy, I fully understand why you have withdrawn as a result. The wish to be and be known to be honourable in your dealings.
Everyone's good.
Shemp, as a newcomer you can't know how long Andy has been at this forum, the friends he's made, the squillions of people here he has helped by freely and generously giving of his considerable knowledge, or how he started a benefit to buy gear for a member from a developing country who could not afford a kit, how he is probably the most responsive person in the Your Playing area. No doubt other things I've forgotten.
If he wants to put forward his company with the odd plug, I'd imagine he's earned the right, as long as he's not obnoxious about it or goes beyond bounds (which he isn't). After all, the major companies are getting free plugs from fans all the time, why not give the little guy a break?
The ones you don't want are the drive-by advertisers, who parasite on Bernhard's bandwidth. Andy does not fit that mould. He's part of the furniture.
BTW, the thread was about Andy starting to design a website and seeking feedback and advice. Andy ... darls ... I saw it. It was as ugly as a hatful of arseholes. Black and white? Fuck off. What possessed you to use a black and white photo? Must be those 23-hour days.
I think you should post again - see if you can get Bermuda and Al Parrot involved.
May normal service resume now pleeeeease?
Shemp, I fully understand where you're coming from. A desire for fair dealings.
Andy, I fully understand why you have withdrawn as a result. The wish to be and be known to be honourable in your dealings.
Everyone's good.
Shemp, as a newcomer you can't know how long Andy has been at this forum, the friends he's made, the squillions of people here he has helped by freely and generously giving of his considerable knowledge, or how he started a benefit to buy gear for a member from a developing country who could not afford a kit, how he is probably the most responsive person in the Your Playing area. No doubt other things I've forgotten.
If he wants to put forward his company with the odd plug, I'd imagine he's earned the right, as long as he's not obnoxious about it or goes beyond bounds (which he isn't). After all, the major companies are getting free plugs from fans all the time, why not give the little guy a break?
The ones you don't want are the drive-by advertisers, who parasite on Bernhard's bandwidth. Andy does not fit that mould. He's part of the furniture.
BTW, the thread was about Andy starting to design a website and seeking feedback and advice. Andy ... darls ... I saw it. It was as ugly as a hatful of arseholes. Black and white? Fuck off. What possessed you to use a black and white photo? Must be those 23-hour days.
I think you should post again - see if you can get Bermuda and Al Parrot involved.
May normal service resume now pleeeeease?
Stroman
Diamond Member
So, without caring what the community thinks of you, without regard for the value of your contributions, without regard for what you may destroy in a community, you came here simply to learn.
Taking without giving isn't being a good part of a community, in my opinion.
Yeah but that's just like, your opinion, man...
Larry
"Uncle Larry"
OK we get it, some people consider it a form of marketing, you win there. Even though his intention was seeking help with website design. Your actions, in this matter only, could definitely be considered troll-like, no doubt about it. It seems like you are giving yourself permission to go ahead and piss anyone off just because it's your opinion. If you don't care about how you are perceived, I would think that is a pre-requisite to trolling. Your opinion, while technically being correct, caused damage to this place. Are you happy with the result? I will go out on a limb here and guess that no one sees this as an improvement. The end result sucks. Way to improve the place man.
gretsch-o-rama
Senior Member
Listen, shemp, I think youre confused. Youre the one thats having emotional outbursts. Youve clearly blown up this thread as im sure you did the other one. Just chill and enjoy DRUMS.
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