An attempt at a policy change here

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larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Yesterday a thread popped up, that bordered on violation of existing policy here, and as a result of that thread, no more pics/info/stories about Guru drums will be seen here. Grrrrr..

This raises a larger issue and I for one would like to see a policy modification. It involves members here using the forum to introduce/market/pitch their products here.

Personally, I do NOT have a problem with members basically hawking their products here. To be perfectly clear, I want that option.

I mean, we sometimes get a first glimpse of a new product on the drumming market. What the hell is wrong with that? I think that is fantastic, a real benefit. I first heard of Guru on these boards, and if I didn't have the opportunity to know about them, I might not have my dream drumset sitting in my studio.

So to try and be short and sweet, I would like to see a new sub forum added that will allow anyone who is marketing a new product, to be able to talk completely freely about said product. I am also looking for support, if in fact the majority are in agreement about allowing members to ply their trade.

I am looking for reasons why this is not a good idea. I think it is a great idea, but perhaps I am missing something. I want to have the opportunity to know about a new product first. In fact I think it should be encouraged, not discouraged. I will decide if that product is worth investigating further. If it is crap, who gets hurt by reading about it? If it is great, we are the first to know about it. That's a pretty big upside IMO. I want that choice. This place is cutting edge, why dull the blade?

Would really like everyone's thoughts on this matter.
 

affenjunge

Junior Member
Would really like everyone's thoughts on this matter.
Mine is pretty simple. I really like your idea.

As a regular reader I also heard about Guru Drums for example but it never seemed like aggressive marketing to me. More like statisfied costumers beeing happy about what they bought. I might be wrong but "no more pics/info/stories about Guru drums" is really over the top when I happily can post about Tama, Gretsch and Sonor.
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
I'm in agreement Larry.

I can see where Bernhard would not want to be the one essentially footing the advertising bill for everyone who comes along, though. I'm curious to see where this goes.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
The issue is that you don't sell Sonor Gretsch or Tama. So it's OK to cheer them on. But if you sell, technically, you aren't supposed to be pushing your wares. I don't agree with this. As long as the product is related to drumming, it is fair game here, no matter if you're selling or buying. IMO.
 
T

The Old Hyde

Guest
Sadly Larry the damage has already been done by a single member. The new Glen, where will he strike next?
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Well, I missed what ever happened. But I suspect it was similar to a few weeks ago where one bad apple had to spoil the entire thread.

The great thing about this site is manufactures can and will come here and talk about their products. We have several reps from Evans and Promark. We have had reps from Yamaha on here. Bill from Pork Pie. And bunch of small manufactures. And obviously, Bermuda is often giving us the scoop on Ludwig and Sabain. As well as other pro drummers discussing the products they endorse.

Obviously, this site doesn't want SPAM or gratuitous advertising. I get that.

But if Guru is going to be singled out, then there are about 1000 other threads that should be wiped as well because they contain a manufacturer or rep or endorser talking up their respective products.

And if that were to happen, this would be a pretty sad place.
 

gretsch-o-rama

Senior Member
Not aware of what happened. I think the rule originated to prevent hit and run spam type posts. KIS is certainly not that but I know hit and run erks a lot of people around here....
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
I COMPLETELY AGREE with Larry.
I FULLY support Andy, the talk/pics of Guru drums, and the posts on the making of them (the good, the bad, the crazy days...)& marketing them to others. I'm a Graphic Designer, so the thread that was deleted was of interest to me. Before I could look into things on what Andy was asking about, it was all gone!!
FOR WHAT??
Andy is part of the DWorld community, and a stand up member of it. It's been a nice journey reading what has gone into this line(s) of drums from one of the people doing it.
Andy has taken the high road, but I feel kinda ticked off about the removal of Guru from the table TBH.
People have the choice to, or not to read a post, comment, pass it by, or look into a product.
Andy has NEVER pushed anything. Far from it, and I for one, think it's a load for this to happen.

If Andy's posting about Guru is a problem, then NO representative of any company should post. I DO NOT WANT THAT. I WANT INDUSTRY PEOPLE to talk about products, and the making of them, and any issues that came up in perfecting what they bring to market.
It's fun to read that kind of stuff!
 

Embalmer

Senior Member
I enjoy KIS posts, and his videos as well as the pictures of his product. I never got the feeling that he was pushing it thru the site.
 

dmacc

Platinum Member
Wow... What the heck happened? I clearly missed.... That's sad as I never felt Andy was "pushing" his stuff on anyone.

I think it's a great idea Larry. A subforum for people to pitch their products if they are the maker or distributor of it. It gets a little fuzzy for those such as Andy who is both a consumer and in the business of making the drums.

Anyways, a sub forum makes sense and let those interested visit. Keeps those who are not away.
 

boltzmann's brain

Senior Member
I COMPLETELY AGREE with Larry.
I FULLY support Andy, the talk/pics of Guru drums, and the posts on the making of them (the good, the bad, the crazy days...)& marketing them to others. I'm a Graphic Designer, so the thread that was deleted was of interest to me. Before I could look into things on what Andy was asking about, it was all gone!!
FOR WHAT??
Andy is part of the DWorld community, and a stand up member of it. It's been a nice journey reading what has gone into this line(s) of drums from one of the people doing it.
Andy has taken the high road, but I feel kinda ticked off about the removal of Guru from the table TBH.
People have the choice to, or not to read a post, comment, pass it by, or look into a product.
Andy has NEVER pushed anything. Far from it, and I for one, think it's a load for this to happen.

If Andy's posting about Guru is a problem, then NO representative of any company should post. I DO NOT WANT THAT. I WANT INDUSTRY PEOPLE to talk about products, and the making of them, and any issues that came up in perfecting what they bring to market.
It's fun to read that kind of stuff!
exactly. i'm with youse.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Sadly Larry the damage has already been done by a single member. The new Glen, where will he strike next?
This is not an indictment of any members. Andy did all this on his own accord, to preserve his integrity here. In a twisted way, I'm glad this happened....so we can modify policy so that inventors, designers and marketers of new products here can discuss their wares without consequence.

Well, I missed what ever happened. But I suspect it was similar to a few weeks ago where one bad apple had to spoil the entire thread.

The great thing about this site is manufactures can and will come here and talk about their products. We have several reps from Evans and Promark. We have had reps from Yamaha on here. Bill from Pork Pie. And bunch of small manufactures. And obviously, Bermuda is often giving us the scoop on Ludwig and Sabain. As well as other pro drummers discussing the products they endorse.

Obviously, this site doesn't want SPAM or gratuitous advertising. I get that.

But if Guru is going to be singled out, then there are about 1000 other threads that should be wiped as well because they contain a manufacturer or rep or endorser talking up their respective products.

And if that were to happen, this would be a pretty sad place.
Guru was not singled out, it was a voluntary choice for Andy, so no one could ever accuse him of using forum resources to further his bottom line. I mean the guys integrity is beyond reproach, his decision just further proves that. I know there are many examples of members here talking about what they are building or inventing. It is tolerated. I think it should be allowed, I just don't see the harm. I am very interested in new products in the drumming realm, and can't understand why the inventor/builder/designer is not allowed to be talking about them.
 

Arky

Platinum Member
Just for info - and I'm not accusing anybody: The thread was deleted because Andy wanted so (it was me who deleted the thread), and I didn't rush to delete it. The thread didn't get deleted because of forum rules violations.

Personally I regret that Andy insisted on the delete because IMO we had a 'good' discussion meaning that the discussion brought forward some ideas and aspects that everybody could think over for oneself to gain something out of it. Also, I regret that Andy modified his signature. There was no real need to do so but it was Andy's decision.

EDIT
This is not the end of anything - take it as an impulse for better things to happen on this forum. Hopefully!
 
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Magenta

Platinum Member
I missed what went on, but in a nutshell: echo Karl. And as for Andy trying to push Guru drums, the opposite is true: he actually REFUSED to sell to me.

I think it would be a good idea to have a commercial sub-forum so that, as others have said, people could read about products if they chose to.
 

Otto

Platinum Member
I missed it as well...

I wouldn't mind seeing it moved to the equipment page...which seems appropriate ....so folks can discuss the merits/features of the item...

banning it seems to reduce the value to the community...
 

JohnW

Silver Member
I was about to post and then read Arky's statement. So whatever transpired is their business but for the record, I'd like to say Guru drums are some of the most beautiful, well crafted instruments I've ever seen or heard. And I've never seen them in person- only on this site!
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
...So to try and be short and sweet, I would like to see a new sub forum added that will allow anyone who is marketing a new product, to be able to talk completely freely about said product. I am also looking for support, if in fact the majority are in agreement about allowing members to ply their trade...
Excellent idea. I like hearing about new drum/percussion related gear and ideas.
There's a lot of stuff I wouldn't have known about, if I hadn't read about it here.

I missed whatever happened, so I have no comment on that.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
This is a shame. I also missed what transpired, but am saddened to hear that we wont be hearing anymore about what are some of the best looking and sounding drums on the planet. I am definitely going to miss all the progress and innovation that Andy brought to the table with Guru drums.
 

Red Menace

Platinum Member
I concur with Larry. I think it'd be great to have a section where manufacturers can post announcements and we can discuss and ask questions. Personally I do not want all the great news from Guru drums to leave this forum. That would be a sad day.
 

shemp

Silver Member
Folks, whether a product is good or a person is a nice person is not the issue here.

The simple fact is that a mfg of drums is/was using this community to, maybe not push, but *market* their product....there can be no denying this and if we took the posts to an arbitrator it would be the sure conclusion....of course there is no need to do that....and this is not that serious of an issue.

I will not indict or throw the stabs back at anyone...but I was the one that made the comment and I stand by it 100%.

If you have an issue with me, why don't we meet in public, have a beer and talk it over instead of having emotional outbursts here.

I made a true statement....whether the marketing is egregious or not is not the point...it is still being done behind a thin veil.

I would vote that there be a special section for equipment manufacturers and any posts related to their gear can be freely posted there...

None of my comment was personal and Andy and I have talked offline about the situation and closed it up. If you have a problem send me an offline message instead of looking for the emotional high of the mass approval you get when you jump on the bandwagon in a forum.

Please disagree with me...I accept it and respect it...but it will not stop and should not stop someone from stating an opinion about something.
 
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