DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 03-18-2019, 09:19 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,840
Default Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

......it's written in pop music history that either he, Earl Palmer, or Gary Chester, played on all those big hits being churned out of the studios in their hey-day. So I got to wondering if this still goes on today?

I do know Steely Dan listed the musicians they used on tracks, and I do know Steve Jordan played on the one Pretender's tune "Don't Get Me Wrong" (which is the most un-Pretender's song I've ever heard) back in the 90s. But would it be strange to find out that studio musicians still ghost behind bands?

What if Dave Grohl didn't play on those Nirvana albums? What if Lars was actually Jim Keltner? In fact, didn't Jim Keltner ghost some tracks on an Aerosmith album in the 80s? I'm speculating, of course, I don't know for sure. But maybe someone here knows if this is true, or maybe it is true and I'm the only one who doesn't know?

I read Allan Schwartzberg ghosted Peter Criss in the studio? What if Alex Van Halen didn't play Hot for Teacher? Wouldn't that be weird?

If stuff like this still goes on, then at least I'm not alone that only my generations' favorite drummers are one guy ;)

Discuss.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-18-2019, 10:04 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 11,356
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
So I got to wondering if this still goes on today?
Sure it does. To some degree. Just ask a guy like Josh Freese.

But has he played on as many recognised "hits" as Blaine? I think blind Freddy can answer that one for us. The industry has changed. Hal Blaine struggled to keep his work rate up by the mid 70's. That should tell us something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
What if Dave Grohl didn't play on those Nirvana albums?
But he did.

There is too much evidence to suggest otherwise. Butch Vig the producer, is on record......numerous times.......talking about a range of things. From how quickly Grohl picked up playing to a click on Nevermind. To how naturally he felt the rhythms and was able to lay them down.

Why would a guy like that have cause to bullshit.....especially nowadays?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
What if Lars was actually Jim Keltner?
He simply wasn't. Lars played it. He played it all.

In fact, Lars was a pioneer of an entire genre. I know it's hard to accept some 35 to 40 years later. It's easy to ridicule Lars. He has slipped. There's little doubt.

But in 1983, him, Lombardo and Charlie Benante were forging an entire genre. Anyone who doubts it, simply wasn't there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
In fact, didn't Jim Keltner ghost some tracks on an Aerosmith album in the 80s?
I've never heard of Keltner ghosting Aerosmith. But if he did, surely it would have been during the 70's.....before Joey Kramer had "cut his studio teeth," so to speak?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I read Allan Schwartzberg ghosted Peter Criss in the studio?
Possibly. I'm not sure. But it's a well established fact that Anton Fig did. So why not?
Depending on who you believe, Peter Criss may or may not have been ghosted any number of times from as early as Kiss, Hotter than Hell and Destroyer.

Personally I reckon he played on those first few albums. But ultimately, I really don't know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
What if Alex Van Halen didn't play Hot for Teacher? Wouldn't that be weird?
Weird? It would be outright fucking madness........if it happened.

But we know it didn't.......regardless of hypotheticals.

If two guys were ever adept enough at their respective instruments to NOT need a session stand-in, I'll say the Van Halen brothers were them.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-18-2019, 12:16 PM
BertTheDrummer's Avatar
BertTheDrummer BertTheDrummer is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 1,339
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

It still happens today, but I don't think it is as prevalent as it was back in the day. Using modern DAWs and recording techniques a lot of studios "fix" mistakes instead of needing to go out and grab a better drummer to play it better.
__________________
ďBe a musician who plays the drums; donít be a drummer who is trying to play music.Ē - Tommy Igoe
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-18-2019, 03:12 PM
cbphoto's Avatar
cbphoto cbphoto is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MŲbius Strip
Posts: 982
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

The documentary Hired Gun might satisfy some of your curiosity. What I learned was Alice Cooper would hear these guys in the studio, pick the best ones and thatís who toured with him.

__________________
~ CB
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-18-2019, 04:03 PM
trickg's Avatar
trickg trickg is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 660
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

I've heard that on the song "According to You" by Orianthi, other than the guitar solos, Phil X did most of the session guitar work - I think it had something to do with the fact that there are just certain things that folks who are used to working in the studio do better than a solo or feature artist when it comes to recording.

I think though that it probably doesn't happen like it did back then because the level of musician training has developed and changed so dramatically over the years. Even since I came up through the ranks in HS back in the 1980s, the training that trumpet players get is so much different than it used to be, particularly with chops development.

Back then, especially when it came to a trumpet player's high range, most players either had it, or they didn't, and if you didn't, you just kind of had to accept it. Now we know so much more about embouchure development and how to fix, correct and streamline things, that finding players with exceptional high range is becoming the norm rather than the exception.

Likewise with drumming, instruction is better, our knowledge about what is possible with the drums is better, and so is our expectation for how we play. Combine that with better technology in the studio where they can do punch-ins, quantizing, an all other manner of digital cleanup on the tracks, and it's not necessary to hire a session player to get the job done well anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-18-2019, 04:48 PM
PorkPieGuy's Avatar
PorkPieGuy PorkPieGuy is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,694
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Matt Cameron plays on A LOT of stuff that y'all don't know about. I have a friend in Nashville (a professional drummer) who toured with a top 40 pop act for several years (he's appeared on all of the late night shows, PBS, Today Show, SNL, etc.), and I heard in an interview that Matt Cameron is one of the top guys who gets calls as a "ghost" studio musician for a lot of bands and groups.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-18-2019, 04:51 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,840
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbphoto View Post
The documentary Hired Gun might satisfy some of your curiosity. What I learned was Alice Cooper would hear these guys in the studio, pick the best ones and thatís who toured with him.

I think this would be partially true - especially as Rob Zombie pointed out that you also have to be able to live with these people while on the road, which would be a deal breaker for 98% of the players out there. I know ALOT of people who I can only stand on stage, and I leave them there when I go home ;)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-18-2019, 04:55 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,840
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Sure it does. To some degree. Just ask a guy like Josh Freese.

But has he played on as many recognised "hits" as Blaine? I think blind Freddy can answer that one for us. The industry has changed. Hal Blaine struggled to keep his work rate up by the mid 70's. That should tell us something.




But he did.

There is too much evidence to suggest otherwise. Butch Vig the producer, is on record......numerous times.......talking about a range of things. From how quickly Grohl picked up playing to a click on Nevermind. To how naturally he felt the rhythms and was able to lay them down.

Why would a guy like that have cause to bullshit.....especially nowadays?




He simply wasn't. Lars played it. He played it all.

In fact, Lars was a pioneer of an entire genre. I know it's hard to accept some 35 to 40 years later. It's easy to ridicule Lars. He has slipped. There's little doubt.

But in 1983, him, Lombardo and Charlie Benante were forging an entire genre. Anyone who doubts it, simply wasn't there.




I've never heard of Keltner ghosting Aerosmith. But if he did, surely it would have been during the 70's.....before Joey Kramer had "cut his studio teeth," so to speak?




Possibly. I'm not sure. But it's a well established fact that Anton Fig did. So why not?
Depending on who you believe, Peter Criss may or may not have been ghosted any number of times from as early as Kiss, Hotter than Hell and Destroyer.

Personally I reckon he played on those first few albums. But ultimately, I really don't know.




Weird? It would be outright fucking madness........if it happened.

But we know it didn't.......regardless of hypotheticals.

If two guys were ever adept enough at their respective instruments to NOT need a session stand-in, I'll say the Van Halen brothers were them.
Well, this just sounds like wishful thinking, doesnít it? And in the end, you admit you donít know. Iím saying, what if itís true? Itíd be hard to accept your heroes arenít really playing your loved favorites.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-18-2019, 05:00 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,335
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Alice Cooper would indeed pick the best for his group and according to the documentary, send them off with his blessing if another gig came up that they wanted to try.

My biggest surprise came when I heard that Eric Clapton played the solo work on The Beatles, As My Guitar Gently Weeps, knowing that George Harrison , was a great guitar player.

It was also mentioned that Steely Dan would bring in a group of musicians, play for a day, then the next day bring in a whole new group.
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-18-2019, 05:02 PM
Mustion Mustion is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 481
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
What if Alex Van Halen didn't play Hot for Teacher?
He didn't -- it was Billy Cobham...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-18-2019, 05:09 PM
trickg's Avatar
trickg trickg is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 660
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
My biggest surprise came when I heard that Eric Clapton played the solo work on The Beatles, As My Guitar Gently Weeps, knowing that George Harrison , was a great guitar player.
And likewise, it wasn't Eric Clapton playing the slide guitar solo on Derek and the Dominos' "Layla" - it was Duane Allman.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-18-2019, 05:36 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,335
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

All of which begs the question, Do we as consumers have the right to full exclosure.? We spend our money on products we assume are one thing and get something else...
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-18-2019, 05:41 PM
trickg's Avatar
trickg trickg is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 660
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
All of which begs the question, Do we as consumers have the right to full disclosure.? We spend our money on products we assume are one thing and get something else...
I'm not sure how relevant it really is. We typically know the singers, but otherwise...? Do you know the people who put your automobile together, or who even designed it? I mean, we could probably find out with some google-fu, but it's not really necessary IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-18-2019, 06:02 PM
BertTheDrummer's Avatar
BertTheDrummer BertTheDrummer is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 1,339
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
All of which begs the question, Do we as consumers have the right to full exclosure.? We spend our money on products we assume are one thing and get something else...
The question is what are you buying? Are you buying X Band or Y Singer's Album? Or are you buying X Band or Y Singer's album featuring _____ person?

You can argue that if they used studio people they were a member of the band for that day. Most albums would disclose the people who played on the albums in the liner notes. Though now days with people just using spotify or downloading the mp3, it isn.t
__________________
ďBe a musician who plays the drums; donít be a drummer who is trying to play music.Ē - Tommy Igoe
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-18-2019, 06:11 PM
mikyok's Avatar
mikyok mikyok is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tipton in the mighty Black Country
Posts: 1,967
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Vinnie did Megadeth the System Has Failed, that made me chuckle. Nobody would have ever guessed! That must have been an interesting phone call!

There was also Andy White who played drums on Love Me Do, Please Please Me and P.S. I Love You for the whopping sum of £5.50........ouch!

The biggest surprise for me was when I found out Hal Blaine did all the drums for the Carpenters.
__________________
I aint farting on no snare drum
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-18-2019, 08:12 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,427
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Pocket-full-of-gold nails it.

Though there will never be another Hal Blaine or a player of that much output.

Simply put, most commercial and pop music these days is done with machines.

And DAW makes it so easy to take a so-so drum track and fix it so it sounds perfect. Quantization, sound replacement software, editing, cutting and pasting, etc, are very prevalent and get easier and easier to use every day.

You can buy samples of well-known drummers laying down what they do and piece it together for your recording. Or just program it, add a bit of radiation to the track to make it appear human and use any number of sample libraries that sound very "real".

And even the humans who still work, like Kenny Arnoff, don't go to as many sessions as they used to. Instead, people send them tracks, they do the drums at home, and then send the files back.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-18-2019, 08:16 PM
spelman's Avatar
spelman spelman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 243
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
Matt Cameron plays on A LOT of stuff that y'all don't know about. I have a friend in Nashville (a professional drummer) who toured with a top 40 pop act for several years (he's appeared on all of the late night shows, PBS, Today Show, SNL, etc.), and I heard in an interview that Matt Cameron is one of the top guys who gets calls as a "ghost" studio musician for a lot of bands and groups.
Matt Cameron of Soundgarden? Not Matt Chamberlain?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-18-2019, 08:41 PM
beatdat's Avatar
beatdat beatdat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Right behind you, baby!
Posts: 435
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

I think it would be hilariously ironic if it was Hal Blaine who played on drums on "Babylon Sisters" and "Home at Last"
__________________
"The piano ain't got no wrong notes." - Thelonious Monk
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-18-2019, 09:08 PM
mikyok's Avatar
mikyok mikyok is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tipton in the mighty Black Country
Posts: 1,967
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatdat View Post
I think it would be hilariously ironic if it was Hal Blaine who played on drums on "Babylon Sisters" and "Home at Last"
He did play on a Steely Dan track on Katy Lied. 'Any World That I'm Welcome To'. Only track on the album Jeff didn't play on
__________________
I aint farting on no snare drum
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-18-2019, 09:54 PM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 11,356
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Well, this just sounds like wishful thinking, doesnít it? And in the end, you admit you donít know. Iím saying, what if itís true? Itíd be hard to accept your heroes arenít really playing your loved favorites.
Where's the wishful thinking?

The only thing I admitted to "not knowing" was whether or not Allan Schwartzberg ghosted Peter Criss. But I admitted that it's possible as it's already an established fact that others have.

As for the rest, we have documented accounts of the likes of Grohl, Lars and AVH laying down their own tracks. You don't think after 30+ years it would have come out? Hal Blaine's "secret" was lucky to last 10 before industry insiders began to let the cat out of the bag.


You're free to think otherwise if you so choose. But if you're gonna do that, I suggest you stand in front of a mirror if you're gonna throw terms like "wishful thinking" around, no?

If hypotheticals are all you're after then let's debate the merits of the sun rising in the west and setting in the east.........it's equally as bloody fanciful. But it's highly ironic to accuse me of wishful thinking as you're sitting there trying to invent your own facts, I would have thought.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-18-2019, 10:06 PM
beatdat's Avatar
beatdat beatdat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Right behind you, baby!
Posts: 435
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Well, this just sounds like wishful thinking, doesnít it? And in the end, you admit you donít know. Iím saying, what if itís true? Itíd be hard to accept your heroes arenít really playing your loved favorites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Where's the wishful thinking?

The only thing I admitted to "not knowing" was whether or not Allan Schwartzberg ghosted Peter Criss. But I admitted that it's possible as it's already an established fact that others have.

As for the rest, we have documented accounts of the likes of Grohl, Lars and AVH laying down their own tracks. You don't think after 30+ years it would have come out? Hal Blaine's "secret" was lucky to last 10 before industry insiders began to let the cat out of the bag.


You're free to think otherwise if you so choose. But if you're gonna do that, I suggest you stand in front of a mirror if you're gonna throw terms like "wishful thinking" around, no?

If hypotheticals are all you're after then let's debate the merits of the sun rising in the west and setting in the east.........it's equally as bloody fanciful. But it's highly ironic to accuse me of wishful thinking as you're sitting there trying to invent your own facts, I would have thought.
How about a laugh instead, guys?

https://dubsmash.com/quote/the-royal...n-cAWFd7j26ht0
__________________
"The piano ain't got no wrong notes." - Thelonious Monk
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-18-2019, 10:17 PM
opentune's Avatar
opentune opentune is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,193
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by trickg View Post
And likewise, it wasn't Eric Clapton playing the slide guitar solo on Derek and the Dominos' "Layla" - it was Duane Allman.
Who on earth ever thought it wasn't Duane Allman? That was a given.
__________________
Louis
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-18-2019, 10:22 PM
opentune's Avatar
opentune opentune is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,193
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
Matt Cameron plays on A LOT of stuff that y'all don't know about. I have a friend in Nashville (a professional drummer) who toured with a top 40 pop act for several years (he's appeared on all of the late night shows, PBS, Today Show, SNL, etc.), and I heard in an interview that Matt Cameron is one of the top guys who gets calls as a "ghost" studio musician for a lot of bands and groups.
I think you mean Matt Chamberlain (though Matt Cameron is well versed to do studio work with many people).
__________________
Louis
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-18-2019, 10:50 PM
oldskoolsoul's Avatar
oldskoolsoul oldskoolsoul is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 653
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

What if the Statue Of Liberty is actually a fake one and the real one is hidden somewhere in a Russian forest where no one ever comes..?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-18-2019, 10:52 PM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 11,356
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
What if the Statue Of Liberty is actually a fake one and the real one is hidden somewhere in a Russian forest where no one ever comes..?
And if it falls, will anybody hear it?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-18-2019, 11:37 PM
Ruok's Avatar
Ruok Ruok is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 570
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikyok View Post

The biggest surprise for me was when I found out Hal Blaine did all the drums for the Carpenters.
I'm no expert, and I may be wrong. But I have read (can't remember where) that she did play on some of their recorded material. But the majority was probably Blaine. On one of their albums, Close to You, it lists both Blaine and Karen as the drummers on the album. That could be false info though. On the album Ticket to Ride, the liner notes states, "In addition to the vocals Karen (age 19) plays drums on all the selections and on two of the offerings she plays electric bass." Again, maybe that's what they wanted us to think? I don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-19-2019, 04:11 PM
trickg's Avatar
trickg trickg is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 660
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Though there will never be another Hal Blaine or a player of that much output.
Except for John "JR" Robinson - I believe he is now the king of the studio session when it comes to sheer numbers, although I'm not sure he has the number 1's, or the sheer number of top 10 hits that Hal had.

In the Country music scene, there's Lonnie Wilson. I don't know if he has the volume of sessions Hal had, or the number of #1 hits or top 10 hits, but his list of credits when it comes to hit songs is impressive. Don't believe me, give this video a gander. The hits montage starts at about the 1:00 minute mark, and then it runs for a solid 14 minutes of 5-10 seconds per song, virtually all of them big country hits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW7u...U&pbjreload=10

At some point I'm going to dissect this video, get the song list/count, and look up their charting positions. It's a VERY impressive list of credits. I'd be willing to state that you can't listen to 20 minutes of Country music radio without hearing a song he drummed on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Who on earth ever thought it wasn't Duane Allman? That was a given.
Keeping in mind that we are musicians, we tend to know more of that kind of thing - LOTS of people think that's all Clapton.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-19-2019, 04:38 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,427
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by trickg View Post
Except for John "JR" Robinson - I believe he is now the king of the studio session when it comes to sheer numbers, although I'm not sure he has the number 1's, or the sheer number of top 10 hits that Hal had.
Well, yes, but no.

JR did indeed take the torch from Hal and JR recorded on a ton of hit records in the late 70's through the 80's and 90's. Jr's career shot up as Hal was winding down being active.

JR's career accomplishments are certainly is on par, or close to on par, with Hal.

But I was referring to now and in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-19-2019, 05:22 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,191
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Where's the wishful thinking?

The only thing I admitted to "not knowing" was whether or not Allan Schwartzberg ghosted Peter Criss. But I admitted that it's possible as it's already an established fact that others have.

As for the rest, we have documented accounts of the likes of Grohl, Lars and AVH laying down their own tracks. You don't think after 30+ years it would have come out? Hal Blaine's "secret" was lucky to last 10 before industry insiders began to let the cat out of the bag.


You're free to think otherwise if you so choose. But if you're gonna do that, I suggest you stand in front of a mirror if you're gonna throw terms like "wishful thinking" around, no?

If hypotheticals are all you're after then let's debate the merits of the sun rising in the west and setting in the east.........it's equally as bloody fanciful. But it's highly ironic to accuse me of wishful thinking as you're sitting there trying to invent your own facts, I would have thought.
Dont we know that Lars did not play everything on record? For example parts of the song One, in particular the sextuplet double bass riff (if thats what its called)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-19-2019, 05:51 PM
PorkPieGuy's Avatar
PorkPieGuy PorkPieGuy is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,694
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by spelman View Post
Matt Cameron of Soundgarden? Not Matt Chamberlain?
Yikes! Sorry about that.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-19-2019, 06:48 PM
Mendozart's Avatar
Mendozart Mendozart is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 1,673
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
Yikes! Sorry about that.
Honest mistake. Especially since Matt Chamberlain was also playing with Soundgarden for a bit. ;-)
__________________
"Failing to prepare is preparing to fail". John Wooden


http://www.jenkinsmartindrums.com/
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-19-2019, 11:37 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,427
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Boogie View Post
Dont we know that Lars did not play everything on record? For example parts of the song One, in particular the sextuplet double bass riff (if thats what its called)
Urban Legend.

I once had a producer tell me he heard Lar's didn't play on the Black album and it's all actually Greg Bissonette because Lars was too drunk to record. But Metallica has a home video out of them recording the Black album.

The rumor about the sextuplets thing only comes the band usually has strobe lights on a dark stage on the section, so internet speculation is they're trying to hide something. Though there are plenty of videos of Lar's playing it live without the strobes (though usually poorly, as he's not the drummer he used to be).

But he and the band admit every song is a compilation of 101 takes, and all his drum tracks are pieced together.

So did he play that whole section straight through on the record? Probably not. But did he play it? Yes.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-19-2019, 11:41 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,427
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendozart View Post
Honest mistake. Especially since Matt Chamberlain was also playing with Soundgarden for a bit. ;-)
You mean Pearl Jam.

Chamberlain was in Pearl Jam for a short period of time.

Matt Cameron was Soundgarden's drummer. Though he also is in Pearl Jam.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-19-2019, 11:57 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,191
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Urban Legend.

I once had a producer tell me he heard Lar's didn't play on the Black album and it's all actually Greg Bissonette because Lars was too drunk to record. But Metallica has a home video out of them recording the Black album.

The rumor about the sextuplets thing only comes the band usually has strobe lights on a dark stage on the section, so internet speculation is they're trying to hide something. Though there are plenty of videos of Lar's playing it live without the strobes (though usually poorly, as he's not the drummer he used to be).

But he and the band admit every song is a compilation of 101 takes, and all his drum tracks are pieced together.

So did he play that whole section straight through on the record? Probably not. But did he play it? Yes.
Im not so sure you are correct regarding the part I mentioned. It may have even been Derek Roddy on here who said he knew that part was played by another drummer. Either way, makes no difference to me, just not so sure Im wrong here.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-20-2019, 12:26 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 11,356
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Boogie View Post
It may have even been Derek Roddy on here who said he knew that part was played by another drummer.
I remember Derek talking about Dyers Eve being cut and spliced a ridiculous number of times in order to get a balanced and cohesive drum track. I don't recall him saying anything about another player ghosting on One though. However, I'm trying to find that old thread again (and any others that relate) to check out exactly what was said.

In short, I've never been able to find any evidence that Lars has been replaced on his own drum tracks. I've seen plenty of conjecture, rumour and supposition on drum forums. But no hard evidence. If anyone can show me some, I'll be the first to gather you all together to listen in while I shout my apology from the roof top.




Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
You mean Pearl Jam.

Chamberlain was in Pearl Jam for a short period of time.

Matt Cameron was Soundgarden's drummer. Though he also is in Pearl Jam.
He did fill in for a while during their 2014 tour as PJ and SG had conflicting tour dates. Cameron chose to do the Pearl Jam tour as that had become his main priority during Soundgarden's long break up.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-20-2019, 01:23 AM
BacteriumFendYoke's Avatar
BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canterbury. The One With the Cathedral.
Posts: 6,352
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Andy Newmark played on Pink Floyd's 'The Final Cut', in part. 'Two Suns in the Sunset' is not Nick Mason - partly because by then he was mainly racing cars rather than playing the drums.

Modern day? Not so much. Much more scope for editing and drummers are generally much better and prepared for the studio. It does still happen, obviously but I don't know of many constantly working UK session players. Andy probably has a better idea, though.

Is this the thread where we make jokes about Bernard Purdie?
__________________
PEWFLADCC
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-20-2019, 01:26 AM
JustJames's Avatar
JustJames JustJames is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 3,136
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
...
Is this the thread where we make jokes about Bernard Purdie?
Nope - that's every Beatles/Ringo thread.

Nice to see you again BFY.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-20-2019, 01:30 AM
BacteriumFendYoke's Avatar
BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canterbury. The One With the Cathedral.
Posts: 6,352
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

I must be rusty with my posting etiquette. My apologies.

You too.
__________________
PEWFLADCC
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-20-2019, 01:39 AM
Juniper's Avatar
Juniper Juniper is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near London, UK
Posts: 1,121
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Andy Newmark played on Pink Floyd's 'The Final Cut', in part. 'Two Suns in the Sunset' is not Nick Mason - partly because by then he was mainly racing cars rather than playing the drums.

Modern day? Not so much. Much more scope for editing and drummers are generally much better and prepared for the studio. It does still happen, obviously but I don't know of many constantly working UK session players. Andy probably has a better idea, though.

Is this the thread where we make jokes about Bernard Purdie?
Good to see you Duncan!

Talking of Pink Floyd Jeff Porcaro also played on ‘Mother’ from The Wall.

Pink Floyd's drummer Nick Mason didn't play on this track. According to Roger Waters, this was because Mason had trouble with the 5/4 time signatures and other changes, as "his brain doesn't work that way." Jeff Porcaro, who was a session drummer and also a member of the band Toto, took his place.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-20-2019, 01:54 AM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,427
Default Re: Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juniper View Post
Good to see you Duncan!

Talking of Pink Floyd Jeff Porcaro also played on ĎMotherí from The Wall.

Pink Floyd's drummer Nick Mason didn't play on this track. According to Roger Waters, this was because Mason had trouble with the 5/4 time signatures and other changes, as "his brain doesn't work that way." Jeff Porcaro, who was a session drummer and also a member of the band Toto, took his place.
Nick said in Drumhead magazine he wasn't sure but didn't doubt that his tracks were replaced. His version of the story is he did record the song, then he went to New York thinking all the drumming was done, and he left the mixing to Waters. And somewhere during that time, the drums were re-done.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com