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  #41  
Old 02-20-2019, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

Don't let that deal get away from you, dad. Either of those kits are fantastic for your son - just pick the color you like. The deal he is offering is great, the drums and hardware are perfect for you, and your son will be ready to play. I'm afraid you may procrastinate too long and lose this deal.

By the way, there is absolutely nothing to worry about with the heads or hardware. It's good quality stuff. Like I said, it's ready to go and good quality. Don't miss out.

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  #42  
Old 02-20-2019, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

yeah that export kit looks like a great deal to me. I gigged my exports for 25 years. I'd be all over that. Then slowly upgrade cymbals over time as others have mentioned to Zildjian A's or Sabian AA's as budget allows.
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  #43  
Old 02-20-2019, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

Someone posted a Sabian XS20 cymbal pack on C/L this morning for $300.

Good used set of Sabian XS20 cymbals.

14” hi hats
16” crash
18” crash/ride
20” ride

No cracks or key-holing.

Look for something similar for your son. These would be great!
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  #44  
Old 02-20-2019, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

Nothing wrong with the Export set and Zildjian Z (series) cymbals. Perfectly fine for pre-teenager. The shell pack and hardware could very well take him all the way through high school.

I'd replace the Z (series) cymbals in a year or two or three. No rush there, though, either. Let his tastes form - he might end up absolutely *needing* the YYY series cymbals from the XXX company - just like that drummer in his favorite band!!

Paraphrasing what most folks have already said, cymbals each have a certain "voice." Finding cymbals that fit your needs and wants are an investment in time and money. Best to spend both wisely with forethought. Most drums can produce a sound *you can live with* with changes in heads and tuning.

For what it's worth, I bought a used Yamaha Stage Custom kit with 90's vintage Zildjian A's and K's. While I *knew* they were supposed to be good cymbals, I didn't like them. I actually listened - and mostly hated - them for almost a year. The listening paid off - I found that my cymbals had a sonic interval that was missing a voice. I bought a 15" thin crash to fill the void and now they sound like a real cymbal set!
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  #45  
Old 02-20-2019, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
Real cymbals don't have to only be B20, I and a lot of others happen to enjoy our B8 Paiste pro level cymbals very much.
That's simply not helpful information to the OP, though. Rather than confuse the issue by selectively naming the very small amount of B8 pies that aren't garbage, I just made a generalization that if you buy b20, alloy it's harder to get crap. That way he could easily get used stuff or a large number of "paired" packs while relatively easily avoiding the horribly named "student" level cymbals, which literally are the worst choice for any new drummer unless you really cannot fathom getting good ones. Crappy stamped cymbals do not play or sound like real ones, and they hold people back from developing good technique to pull out the best sounds.
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  #46  
Old 02-20-2019, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
Nothing wrong with the Export set and Zildjian Z (series) cymbals. Perfectly fine for pre-teenager. The shell pack and hardware could very well take him all the way through high school.
To be a bit of a broken record, I do not agree. Those stamped crap cymbals not only don't sound good, they don't teach you how to really use cymbals to get all the different sounds, because they're so one-dimensional and simply do not play like a better made cymbal; feel totally different.

The worst part is that new drummers cannot tell this. They don't know what it's supposed to feel like, or that they can't swell these the same way, or that the decay and tones are extremely one-dimensional and they don't "give" or react the same way to your strokes.

For a drummer, they may not be glamorous, but cymbals are a thousand times more expressive and important than the stupid drums will ever be. It's very important to not hamper yourself out of the gate with low quality cheapo garbage. I really, really wish I'd known that as a young drummer because at the time I just didn't know the difference and as soon as I got a few real ones my playing improved literally immediately.

It's not just about the sound. Crap stamped cymbal lines hold people back from sounding and playing their best. And it's not even that expensive to do it right. I sound bitter because I am.
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:10 PM
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  #47  
Old 02-20-2019, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

There are 6 artists on the zildjian site that are ZBT users and Mike Mangini is one of them. They have their place.
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  #48  
Old 02-21-2019, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
There are 6 artists on the zildjian site that are ZBT users and Mike Mangini is one of them. They have there place.
Well what do I know then-I stand corrected, however I still say the 14 in crash sounds better with rivets ;) LOL. Maybe I should record them rather than listen with ears. I've heard too many tales of drummers using anothers kit thinking it sounded like crap (loose floppy heads, shoeboxes, etc) but once in front with the owner drummer playing them they sound great???? Sound waves do funky things and the ZBTs tend to have the higher frequencies which I can't hear squat. Recording with headphones tells the tale though I can hear with both hearing aids and headphones pretty well-I think. I'll give them another shot. I put rivets in al of them so I'll play the ride with rivets then remove them and play them. I'm leaving them in the crash her,hee,hee. I gave my son-in-law the hats though. If these sound better than my high end Zildjians I'm switching to Paiste LOL.
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  #49  
Old 02-21-2019, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
There are 6 artists on the zildjian site that are ZBT users and Mike Mangini is one of them. They have there place.
Some people like to use them as effects or alternate crashes, and some people get paid lots of money to pretend they like them or use them. Lastly, a few thrash/metal guys I know literally don't care what their cymbals sound or play like; as in half of their "good" cymbals are cracked and falling apart so why care kinda thing.

None of that really gets at my point though, which is their very real ability to hold back new players from understanding how good/real cymbals work, sound and respond. It makes you sound worse than you really do and hampers your ability to play at your personal best.

A set of standard Zil A's is such a better idea than buying this kid another drum kit.
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  #50  
Old 02-21-2019, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Some people like to use them as effects or alternate crashes, and some people get paid lots of money to pretend they like them or use them. Lastly, a few thrash/metal guys I know literally don't care what their cymbals sound or play like; as in half of their "good" cymbals are cracked and falling apart so why care kinda thing.

None of that really gets at my point though, which is their very real ability to hold back new players from understanding how good/real cymbals work, sound and respond. It makes you sound worse than you really do and hampers your ability to play at your personal best.

A set of standard Zil A's is such a better idea than buying this kid another drum kit.
Arguments with merit Doc. I argue the same- you can get away with a cheap shell pack for toms and bass drum but good cymbals and snare really make a huge difference I think. What about a compromise-buy the kit-sale the ZBT cymbals and buy a good A's pack and that will last hm decades?
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  #51  
Old 02-21-2019, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

That's fine to get both, but I'm saying if we actually care about the kids playing and development, go after real cymbals before you buy a second drum kit. It makes no sense at all to keep "upgrading" a kit that the kid can't even tune yet when the cymbals make so much more impact in terms of learning and sounding decent.
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  #52  
Old 02-21-2019, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
That's fine to get both, but I'm saying if we actually care about the kids playing and development, go after real cymbals before you buy a second drum kit. It makes no sense at all to keep "upgrading" a kit that the kid can't even tune yet when the cymbals make so much more impact in terms of learning and sounding decent.
You are, as usual, totally right.
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  #53  
Old 02-21-2019, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

If the thread starter can buy a nice set of used A's for a nice price, then thats always a nice investment..

But to act as if a beginner needs high quality cymbals is nonsense..

When you give a random person a stick to smash a cymbal, a K Dark Crash will sound as horrible as some cheap entrance level cymbal..

Regarding playing-technique, the quality of cymbals starts to matter when being an intermediate player and up..And even in that catagory of players there are plenty examples to be seen where the quality of their cymbals is not mattering at all..

But thats basically because they are not intermediate or up..
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  #54  
Old 02-21-2019, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
If the thread starter can buy a nice set of used A's for a nice price, then thats always a nice investment..
They already started with a budget that is way more than enough.

Quote:
But to act as if a beginner needs high quality cymbals is nonsense..
"high quality" is a weird term... All I'm saying is don't start out with an impediment to sounding good if you can help it. With a much smaller budget than the OP is talking about you can get real cymbals. This will matter infinitely more than a new drum kit for a new player, and that is not up for discussion because it's simple fact.

Quote:
When you give a random person a stick to smash a cymbal, a K Dark Crash will sound as horrible as some cheap entrance level cymbal..
I don't think you thought this through before you typed it out. Because it's total nonsense. A trash cymbal will sound like a trash cymbal, a decent alloy cast cymbal will sound like a decent quality cast cymbal. It doesn't magically change sounds when you get better at using it, you're just able to use your skills to pull even more sounds out of it... But you cannot learn to do that if you don't have a cymbal that will react the right way to your playing.

Quote:
Regarding playing-technique, the quality of cymbals starts to matter when being an intermediate player and up..And even in that catagory of players there are plenty examples to be seen where the quality of their cymbals is not mattering at all.
No. You need at least a decent tool set in order to develop your ability to use those tools. Learning on crap cymbals will stunt your growth as a player because it teaches your body to react to those crap cymbals and expect the limited (usually pretty horrible) range of sounds they produce from a given stroke or action. This isn't a case where it's basically the same thing, this is a case where from the ground up, those stamped pieces of sheet metal are not even close to the same except in appearance; they're literally harder to play for a worse sound.

Lastly, you're the only one here talking about K's. I'm giving sound advice to the OP to ignore another drum set and focus on something that will have a much better impact on this young drummers learning AND his sound. That can be a set of used A's for often a few hundred, or a pack of new ones for more since the budget is obviously there in this case. Beyond all this nonsense defending toy cymbal lines we do in fact have a topic on hand of a young drummer and his dad asking about upgrade advice. If you think the best advice is go ahead and upgrade the drums before you even get a single real cymbal, well, you're wrong, and that would be detrimental advice.
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  #55  
Old 02-21-2019, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
Regarding playing-technique, the quality of cymbals starts to matter when being an intermediate player and up..And even in that catagory of players there are plenty examples to be seen where the quality of their cymbals is not mattering at all..
No...this is just so wrong.

My starter kit, which was sufficiently recent that I remember it well, had dreadful CSO's (cymbal shaped objects) attached. At the time, my teacher had been unleashing me on "Jealous Guy", recorded by Bryan Ferry. The song builds up to a series of cymbal crashes. This was the first song that I ever tackled.

So, there I was, playing my kit, dutifully holding down a money beat, waiting for the treat that is playing a crash cymbal. The moment came and...KLANGGGG!!!!

I ordered new cymbals the next day.
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  #56  
Old 02-21-2019, 04:30 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
..I don't think you thought this through before you typed it out..

Thats a little a weird habit that you seem to have, to constantly try to prove yourself as being the expert here, by breaking down posts to each sentence and replying to each sentence as if we are in court here..

For my feeling you gave your opinion about 23 times in this thread and i gave mine..

Thats about that..
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  #57  
Old 02-21-2019, 12:51 PM
Swissward Flamtacles Swissward Flamtacles is offline
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

While I recommended two other sets due to the included cymbals, I think that the Export would make for a great set because it's in very good shape and the hardware is really good.

The extra 16" Floor Tom could be converted to a 16" Bass Drum with Pearl's Jungle Conversion Kit for a few bucks, so there's the option of playing it as 16-12-14 without butchering the Floor Tom.
Selling the old set and the new cymbals could make enough money to get a set of nice cymbals if you're patient (I'd still ask the sellers of the two links I posted if they'd sell the cymbals separately). Cymbals don't cost a fortune to ship, so it should be no problem to find a good set for a decent price on ebay.

Search for used cymbals like Sabian AA / HH, Zildjian A, Zilco, Tosco, Zanchi, Istanbul, Diril, Masterwork, Dream for a start. Most companys offer budget line cymbals that are not so great, so just ask here and I'm sure that you'll get help whenever you decide that it's time to replace the ZBTs.
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  #58  
Old 02-21-2019, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

So what's the update on this? Did Dad buy the Tiger Eye kit?
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  #59  
Old 02-21-2019, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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So what's the update on this? Did Dad buy the Tiger Eye kit?
I hope so. That little kid kit will be outgrown soon. He needs to grow into some real drums, and that Pearl kit is pretty nice.
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  #60  
Old 02-21-2019, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
..No...this is just so wrong..

Before using again such big words, you might want to check out (amongst many other examples) this video..

This is what i call a guy that reached/demonstrates, regarding pop/rock drumming, a kinda intermediate level and these are the cymbals that we are speaking about here..

And, like i said before, this is a guy that would benefit from getting a pair of A's or, in his case even better, K's..To start learning to 'colour' and 'paint' more with his cymbals..

But to tell that this set of cymbals for a beginner till intermediate player is not ok enough and that such a set will hold a beginner back from learning proper technique, is just nonsense..Plain nonsense..

The first 3 words of my post that you replied to were 'Regarding playing-technique'..That means something different than cymbals that are not sounding nice to your personal ears..

And, like i also said before, there are many examples to be found from drummers with top range cymbals who sound way worse than this guy with his 'crap' ones..Because someone who can not play, will be perfectly able to make a K constantinople cymbal sound like a garbage can..

Thats a little exaggerated ofcourse, but you get the idea, i hope..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m6fw407Jus
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  #61  
Old 02-21-2019, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
Thats a little a weird habit that you seem to have, to constantly try to prove yourself as being the expert here, by breaking down posts to each sentence and replying to each sentence as if we are in court here..

For my feeling you gave your opinion about 23 times in this thread and i gave mine..

Thats about that..
When I see bad advice, especially bad advice given to new players, I like to lay out exactly why it's bad advice rather than just being that guy who says "wrong" and moves on, since that's even less helpful than the bad advice I'm speaking against.

I've noticed you in particular like to be a bit of a contrarian when I make posts and I think you often argue just for the sake of arguing with me without thinking through your arguments or even being open minded that perhaps some of us here have more experience with these things. I sometimes teach new players and young kids and I see the mistakes that happen over and over.

So while that was a nice try at a personal attack, I'm not bothered by it. I'm here to talk drums, and I've always been one to be helpful with knowledge when I can pass it on, especially when that knowledge was hard-won through my own mistakes and the mistakes of those around me. I'll continue to be thorough in my responses because that's what I feel is most beneficial rather than just spouting opinions with nothing behind them.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

Well let's see if I can provide something constructive, for a change, to the discussion. Took my iPhone and whacked on my ZBT 14 in crash vs Zil A thin crash 14in, the the 20 in (I think??)ZBT ride vs Zildjian K Constantinople Hi Bell Thin Ride, Low Cymbal 22 in. Now I added rivets to both ZBTs so it may have altered it so that has to be weighed. I had stated the rivets helped the 14 in crash but hell no nothing can save that LOL. Completely different cymbals sonically. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m6i...ature=youtu.be
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  #63  
Old 02-21-2019, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
..I've noticed you in particular like to be a bit of a contrarian when I make posts and I think you often argue just for the sake of arguing with me without thinking through your arguments or even being open minded that perhaps some of us here have more experience with these things..

..while that was a nice try at a personal attack, I'm not bothered by it. I'm here to talk drums, and I've always been one to be helpful with knowledge when I can pass it on, especially when that knowledge was hard-won through my own mistakes and the mistakes of those around me. I'll continue to be thorough in my responses because that's what I feel is most beneficial rather than just spouting opinions with nothing behind them..

That Watso..Exactly that arrogance behaviour is what i am completely allergic to..

I play drums almost 40 years out of which during 15 years i made my living as a drummer, had lessons from some of the best teachers in my country and i visited clinics/masterclasses from about every famous drummer you can think about..

Then what is exactly the reason that i have to hear from 'forum-expert' Watso that i only argue to argue and that i am only spouting opinions with nothing behind them..?

Edit.

I said what i had to say about those cymbals and i am not really interested anymore in wasting energy with useless discussions like this..

Lets move on..

Last edited by oldskoolsoul; 02-21-2019 at 10:05 PM.
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  #64  
Old 02-21-2019, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

The worst advice given to the Dad on this thread was to not buy that deal.
I hope he didn't listen to the naysayers. It's clearly an upgrade from the tiny black kit. For $400 it was a steal (throne, hardware etc...), and came with some cymbals that could be upgraded, pro cymbals or not.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
That Watso..Exactly that arrogance behaviour is what i am completely allergic to..

I play drums almost 40 years out of which during 15 years i made my living as a drummer, had lessons from some of the best teachers in my country and i visited clinics/masterclasses from about every famous drummer you can think about..

Then what is exactly the reason that i have to hear from 'forum-expert' Watso that i only argue to argue and that i am only spouting opinions with nothing behind them..?

Edit.

I said what i had to say about those cymbals and i am not really interested anymore in wasting energy with useless discussions like this..

Lets move on..
I find that ID'ing the purveyors of douchebaggery and adding them to my ignore list is very helpful. They're not hard to spot.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
That Watso..Exactly that arrogance behaviour is what i am completely allergic to..

I play drums almost 40 years out of which during 15 years i made my living as a drummer, had lessons from some of the best teachers in my country and i visited clinics/masterclasses from about every famous drummer you can think about..

Then what is exactly the reason that i have to hear from 'forum-expert' Watso that i only argue to argue and that i am only spouting opinions with nothing behind them..?

Edit.

I said what i had to say about those cymbals and i am not really interested anymore in wasting energy with useless discussions like this..

Lets move on..
I guess we'll just have to deal with our mutual allergies. I wasn't even talking about me in this response. I see you do this pretty constantly, to lots of members here, not just me. If you've been playing 40 years and still think it's not important to have real cymbals before you go buy another drum kit, well... Also, with some of the discussions we've had regarding techniques I'm a little shocked you say you have this level of learning. Guess I'll take your word for it.

Cymbals are one place that should not be skimped on to the lowest levels. Get at least a real one and not a piece of stamped sheet metal that basically just looks like a cymbal and sounds/plays more like a trash lid. One of the best pieces of advice for a new drummer.
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  #67  
Old 02-21-2019, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
The worst advice given to the Dad on this thread was to not buy that deal.
I hope he didn't listen to the naysayers. It's clearly an upgrade from the tiny black kit. For $400 it was a steal (throne, hardware etc...), and came with some cymbals that could be upgraded, pro cymbals or not.
I really didn't see a deal that was that great in comparison to the similar deals I see on craigslist all the time... The same budget could benefit the kid so much more with real cymbals to play. This is so weird. The drums just don't matter that much... Spend a few bucks on heads and nobody will care.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
I really didn't see a deal that was that great in comparison to the similar deals I see on craigslist all the time... The same budget could benefit the kid so much more with real cymbals to play. This is so weird. The drums just don't matter that much... Spend a few bucks on heads and nobody will care.
I'm curious, is the last time you're going to explain this? I figured 2 or 3 was already enough. Wow They got it. It's your opinion. Do you need a "GOOD JOB" sticker or something?

Hilarious
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by Old Dog new Cans View Post
I'm curious, is the last time you're going to explain this? I figured 2 or 3 was already enough. Wow They got it. It's your opinion. Do you need a "GOOD JOB" sticker or something?

Hilarious
You giving out stickers? Or do you have them all on your ZBT cymbals to improve the sound? You must be an endorser.

Incidentally, no it's not the last time I'll be explaining this. Unfortunately, these pieces of trash pretending to be instruments are sold at high volume to people who don't know better by salesmen or mis-guided idea that it's not important in the process of learning how to play to have at least decent quality cymbals.

It's a very common mistake new drummers make and I'm more than happy to be the broken record.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

Oh come on fellas it's been a good thread and it's about the original post. What struck me is his 11 year old son might be reading this thread. If so I hope he appreciates people liked the kit. I think (??) the general consensus was buy the kit, a general consensus the cymbals ok for a beginner but there are lots better. Our moderator moderated given example of pros endorsing the ZBTs-good job GruntersDad. I posted a video of questionable value but nonetheless. I'd leave it at that regardless of all the different well-seasoned or reasoned arguments. No need to get all personal either-let's have a beer summit LOL.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
That's simply not helpful information to the OP, though. Rather than confuse the issue by selectively naming the very small amount of B8 pies that aren't garbage, I just made a generalization that if you buy b20, alloy it's harder to get crap.
I disagree. How is simply stating that professional level B8 cymbals from Paiste are "real" cymbals and aren't junk not helpful information? It is completely applicable to giving information to the OP about cymbals in general. The last thing I want to convey is that B20 = Good and B8 = Junk. there are plenty of junky B20 cymbals out there and plenty of good B8 cymbals out there. I was just commenting on what I believed to be an overgeneralization on your part. I was in the dark for years about Paistes because someone told me a long time ago that B20 was good and B8 was junk. Then I realized a number drummers of bands that I listened the most all used Paiste 2002, Giant Beats, or Rudes and they were all B8s. Are they for everything? No, but they have a particular sound that is integral to the history of music.

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No need to get all personal either-let's have a beer summit LOL.
Who's buying the first round?
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Last edited by BertTheDrummer; 02-21-2019 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Added some info and decided not to get personal.
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
I disagree. How is simply stating that professional level B8 cymbals from Paiste are "real" cymbals and aren't junk not helpful information? It is completely applicable to giving information to the OP about cymbals in general. The last thing I want to convey is that B20 = Good and B8 = Junk. there are plenty of junky B20 cymbals out there and plenty of good B8 cymbals out there. I was just commenting on what I believed to be an overgeneralization on your part. I was in the dark for years about Paistes because someone told me a long time ago that B20 was good and B8 was junk. Then I realized a number drummers of bands that I listened the most all used Paiste 2002, Giant Beats, or Rudes and they were all B8s. Are they for everything? No, but they have a particular sound that is integral to the history of music.
Fair enough I suppose. I do know and have played some of the good b8 stuff, and the alloy alone is only one aspect. As you may have figured out, my over-generalization is due to the fact that within b20, to my knowledge there aren't any stamped sheet cymbals, which isn't the case for b8; for someone new it's just an easy thing to remember rather than try to figure out which b8 lines have more work put into them and sound better. I will state categorically there are quite a few b8 lines that sound great, and even other lesser known alloys that have their place, too.

Quote:
Who's buying the first round?
Me, apparently. This particular issue is really hard for some to understand and on the surface it is hard to see especially when you're newer to this stuff. My personal epiphany on this issue way back was a huge eye opener, and boy am I ever sorry about how much wasted time and money I put into those toy cymbal lines. You gain so much expressiveness, even as a new drummer.
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

Go to Dale’s drums shop in h-burg. They’re very helpful and also sell used drums.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:00 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
You giving out stickers? Or do you have them all on your ZBT cymbals to improve the sound? You must be an endorser.

Incidentally, no it's not the last time I'll be explaining this. Unfortunately, these pieces of trash pretending to be instruments are sold at high volume to people who don't know better by salesmen or mis-guided idea that it's not important in the process of learning how to play to have at least decent quality cymbals.

It's a very common mistake new drummers make and I'm more than happy to be the broken record.
I actually don't own ZBTs. But I know there are worse cymbals out there. They're easy to upgrade, and you never know, sometimes you get lucky with the lower level box sets and get some decent sounding cymbals.

I don't think you need to have "player" level cymbals, unless you're a player. This young man is going to have many years to grow into new equipment. I believe the Dad is trying to be economical in his search as well. Maybe YOU should just buy him the cymbals YOU want him to have and be done with it?
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

The kids 11. Zildjian ZBTs are fine. Its a great deal. Buy em. Thread closed.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:57 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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The kids 11. Zildjian ZBTs are fine. Its a great deal. Buy em. Thread closed.
Sounds good to me (although it has been entertaining).

How does a seemingly innocent question over what kit should a dad buy his son turn into a blood feud over cymbal choices? Only on the interwebs : )
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Old 02-22-2019, 03:00 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
..Also, with some of the discussions we've had regarding techniques I'm a little shocked you say you have this level of learning..

I assume you are referring now to that thread where you kept on showing that you had no clue about the existence of Full-Moeller, Half-Moeller and Low-Moeller strokes, the difference between them and how Low-Moeller could be (which is different than 'mandatory should be') applied when playing fast one handed 16th's on the hihat..

Yes, ofcourse i remember that thread, we are still laughing about that one here at my place..lol..

Forgive me for getting a little sarcastic, but i am out of this discussion..I mean, you even made me bring up Moeller now, in a thread about a father, a son and a drumset upgrade..

Things should not get more crazy than that..
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  #78  
Old 02-22-2019, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

Dear JpeBD:

No pressure, but you're killin' me here, man! Where we at on kit acquisition?
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  #79  
Old 02-22-2019, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

As much as my better judgement tells me to keep out of this one, there is another option that could work out very well. The OP can buy the original Pearl kit in question with all the hardware and ZBT cymbals for $450 (I think that's what he said the seller was willing to go down to), plus buy this used but perfect condition Zildjian S Performer 5-piece cymbal pack for $360 shipped.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zildjian-S390-S-Performer-5-Piece-Cymbal-Pack-Set-Used/173733724790?epid=2254971257&hash=item2873564276:g :Y7sAAOSwcUBYHLKp:rk:20:pf:0

No, the S cymbals aren't B20 (they're B12, so they're a step up from B8s), but they sound surprisingly good for budget cymbals. The OP even said he checked them out at a store and liked how they sounded. And they're definitely good enough for an 11-year-old beginner. Then sell the ZBTs that came with the set on CL or eBay for roughly $150 (I'm thinking $60 for the hats, $40 for the crash and $50 for the ride). That comes out to about $660 out of pocket in the end, depending on what the ZBTs actually sell for. That's barely more than the seller was originally asking for, and the kid will have a great package for someone his age, with nice drums, hardware and cymbals.

Once you factor in the OP can sell the old kit for maybe $100 for the whole lot, then we're only talking about $560 out of pocket once it's all over. That would be a great deal.
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:12 PM
Gottliver Gottliver is offline
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Default Re: Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

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Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
As much as my better judgement tells me to keep out of this one, there is another option that could work out very well. The OP can buy the original Pearl kit in question with all the hardware and ZBT cymbals for $450 (I think that's what he said the seller was willing to go down to), plus buy this used but perfect condition Zildjian S Performer 5-piece cymbal pack for $360 shipped.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zildjian-S390-S-Performer-5-Piece-Cymbal-Pack-Set-Used/173733724790?epid=2254971257&hash=item2873564276:g :Y7sAAOSwcUBYHLKp:rk:20:pf:0

No, the S cymbals aren't B20 (they're B12, so they're a step up from B8s), but they sound surprisingly good for budget cymbals. The OP even said he checked them out at a store and liked how they sounded. And they're definitely good enough for an 11-year-old beginner. Then sell the ZBTs that came with the set on CL or eBay for roughly $150 (I'm thinking $60 for the hats, $40 for the crash and $50 for the ride). That comes out to about $660 out of pocket in the end, depending on what the ZBTs actually sell for. That's barely more than the seller was originally asking for, and the kid will have a great package for someone his age, with nice drums, hardware and cymbals.

Once you factor in the OP can sell the old kit for maybe $100 for the whole lot, then we're only talking about $560 out of pocket once it's all over. That would be a great deal.
Why? The kids 11!!!! It doesn’t matter!!! Our cymbal sensibilities don’t apply here. It’s all about context. Plus the S line ain’t worth $350. Maybe $12. $25 at most.
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