Can completely off-time notes fit a song?

Nickropolis

Nickropolis

Senior Member
Just a random thought, has anyone heard of or used intentionally going way off time and playing a brief 'wall of noise' that isn't musical at all? In fact, it's hard to listen to but only for a few seconds, then easing the listener back in with some catchy riff.

Thinking in terms of dynamics, it might work to elevate the rest of the song to some degree.
 
I've been doing it for years- I just do it at least twice so everyone thinks I meant it!
 
in an old band of mine, we'd do this thing called "synching up", where'd we do a wacky pattern, all locked in together, sometimes we'd do it to match a part of a line of lyrics, just to keep the audience entertained, turned out they loved it. we did it well, sometimes you just gotta risk it!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4uJFGDdcBo - Around 1:15 and 2:33, where Pridgen and Rodriguez go nuts. They are following the 17/8 pattern, but in an easy way.

It's my impression that some people hate it, and I guess I would have just preferred the same groove as the verses, but it obviously adds an element of chaos to the song.
 
Lead guitars do it all the time.

They just do whatever they feel like for a while then look up, see where everyone else is and jump back in :)
 
The guitarist came up with hideous riff, it was like drummers kryptonite. It really threw me when I heard it. Especially seens as he played it to a click and listening to it with the click on made it worse.

Maybe I'm just hearing it differently?

Anyway, I ended up puttinf drums on-top, using the guitars as a reference (it was only idea archiving) and it sounds almost like I'm playing a groove in free time, sounds like it speeds up, slows down, pauses etc. Really wierd.

Took me ages to get it down and once I played through the riff twice succesfully I just looped it. Still don't feel totally comfortable with it.

I should post it on here and get drummers opinions on it, and seewhat you make about the non freetime freetime!
 
Cant think of any examples except that sometimes a percussionist will have a solo and go somewhere (much like a guitarist- think Jimi Hendrix in Voodoo Chile- ) on bongos or timbales but this is usually while a drummers keeps time on a kit.

No examples though. The standard thing I am thinking of would be triplet grooves over standard 4/4 stuff.
 
Alot of prog cats will play poly-rhytmic phrases that seem off time but are actually locked in. Go check out Virgil Donati's Planet X, zainey stuff
 
Drummerjunkie04 said:
Alot of prog cats will play poly-rhytmic phrases that seem off time but are actually locked in. Go check out Virgil Donati's Planet X, zainey stuff
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I've heard all that stuff and I'm a big fan. my bands music is nearly all based on polymeteres and polyrhythms but, this riff seemed different. Don't know whether it's a one of those riffs that stumped me for no sensible reason, as the guitarist doesn't seem to think it's all that strange? :s
 
Chunky - Hellraizer said:
I've heard all that stuff and I'm a big fan. my bands music is nearly all based on polymeteres and polyrhythms but, this riff seemed different. Don't know whether it's a one of those riffs that stumped me for no sensible reason, as the guitarist doesn't seem to think it's all that strange? :s
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reminds me of black dog by led zep. im sure bohnam was like whaaa the first time they jammed it
 
Drummerjunkie04 said:
reminds me of black dog by led zep. im sure bohnam was like whaaa the first time they jammed it
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Lol, I love that kind of stuff, I find it intriguing. Scares me at times though 'cos I can't wade in with certain confidence. always wanted to play a part that sounds like I'm playing really out of time, never thought I'd be gifted with such a beauty of a riff to play along to.

Would I want to play it live though? Hmmmmmm.

So yeah, I think mis-placed notes can sound great in music. I rememeber Vinnis Paul playing a fill in one song for Pantera and it always sounded to me like he threw the tempo of the track out the window, played as fast as he could for a few seconds but, came back in where he was meant to. Sounds great but always intimidated me and was a nightmare to work out!

I love it when a drummer has the confidence to do something really bizarre and something I'd probably be too scared to do most of the time. Time is a great tool.
 
Love a bit of cacophony - plenty of it in psychedelic rock, prog, fusion, free improv, modern classical and experimental. In my own stuff I like to push listeners to the point where they might worry that the song's going pear-shaped and then sweep back into the flow (or to something pleasant) in to relieve the tension. The Mars Volta link earlier on was a good example of it.

Most times people hear it is when a solo peaks before going back into the head, riff or chorus. A good example here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4s4hW-oGZ0 - it goes off before 4:30 and falls back into time. It's all on the grid but they float for a while.

There's a solo by Matt Abts later on in the tune that's goes polyrhythmic - killer drummer.
 
A buddy of mine picked up a new drummer for a while, he was a great drummer but always liked to over play a bit and use a lot of off time beats and fills and the band started noticing that people couldnt dance to it or thru it, some people would stop dancing then start again after the fill, or just go sit down they even noticed that some people would almost trip and fall down when he went into an off time fill, they eventually had to go with a less talented but smooth and steadier time keeper. We as musicians can appreciate this kind of playing but the average club goer may not and or may even see it as being a less talented musician.
 
tard said:
.... he was a great drummer but always liked to over play a bit.... .......We as musicians can appreciate this kind of playing but the average club goer may not and or may even see it as being a less talented musician.
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As a musician, I don't appreciate when anyone overplays in a band context. As a spotlight type thing that's different. Overplaying...to me it means that person is not a team player, and that person doesn't get the fact that they're playing for bar patrons, who mostly just want a nice groove from a song they recognize so they can use that to lure tipsy women to the floor so they can get more touchy feely with them and possibly further their progeny.

Missing the big picture is the phrase that comes to mind.
 
Older Tony Williams would do these loose out-of-time flurries when he played with Lifetime. There was a DRUM! article a few years ago featuring Cindy Blackman where she talked about what an influence he was and that facet of his playing was mentioned and transcribed (as much as possible, haha!).
 
larryace said:
As a musician, I don't appreciate when anyone overplays in a band context. As a spotlight type thing that's different. Overplaying...to me it means that person is not a team player, and that person doesn't get the fact that they're playing for bar patrons, who mostly just want a nice groove from a song they recognize so they can use that to lure tipsy women to the floor so they can get more touchy feely with them and possibly further their progeny.

Missing the big picture is the phrase that comes to mind.
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I think the phrase that comes to my mind is 'target audience'.

You've got to know who you're playing to and what these people want. Them please the hell out of them.

Some crowds live for sitting at the front getting their sense of time thrown bar after bar. Others, like you said, just think you can't play properly.

Know your role.
 
Everyone seems to be forgetting the orchestral glissando in 'A Day in the Life' by The Beatles.

As an adherent and follower of noise aesthetic, I can say that there is nothing unusual or novel about breaks in songs as you describe. It's much more common than you think.
 
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