stick control tempo question.

bigA415

Junior Member
hey guys, i am posting this question again because after practicing for a few days i realized that i might be playing at the wrong tempo (8th notes instead of 16ths). this question has been an on going battle for me because i keep hearing new things. this is the routine im trying to start posted by jazzsnob a few years ago.



"This is an awesome thread, and I hope it gets stickied. I'll add the way I learned.

This is by no means the only way to do stick control, but this is a proven way to get some serious technique together. It requires A LOT of patience, and I don’t suggest starting it if you aren’t going to finish it. It’s EXTREMELY difficult sometimes. And also, the method takes about 3-5 years to complete. And you only practice the first page of the book.

THE JIMMY SAGE/CHUCK BROWN/BILLY GLADSTONE METHOD FOR STICK CONTROL.
Set your metronome to an 8th note of about 100. Most drummers should be able to do anything on the first page at that tempo after a few minutes of messing around. Now spend an entire week working(I’m sorry, I don’t have my book with me, so I don’t have exact numbers) on the . Just singles, doubles, and the first paradiddle exercise. Only those two , extremely slow. The doubles and paradiddles should sound EXACTLY like singles. It’s good to go over this method with a teacher, or to record yourself doing it on a snare drum to make sure everything is perfect. Then, one week later, you practice single, doubles, and the next exercise, inverted paradiddles(RLLRLRRL). If it takes you two weeks to get it perfect, fine. Give youself time on these excercises.

Another difficult part of the exercise is that every minute or so you should raise your stick to at least a 12-16 inch height and play at that height for 8 measures. Then you bring in back down. You must do this perfectly in time and make sure all the strokes are still uniform in dynamic and tonal quality and all that jibba jabba. This will give you “good pain” after a while, your muscles WILL get sore, but they will never give you terrible pain.

Remember, just like G.L. Stone said, stay relaxed 100% of the time, even when you go up. You should be putting at least 30 minutes a day into these excercises.


So you spend 2 months, going through excercises 5-24 or something at tempo 100. Done now? Great! Now you do it all over again at 104! and 108! and 112! and 116! and so on!. Never go up more then one click on a metronome when starting the page over.




The reason this exercise method is so difficult is because you have to be so patient. A lot of younger drummers especially want to start faster, speed up the next day, blah blah blah. If you do that you WILL NOT IMPROVE AS QUICKLY. This exercise really seriously does require patience. It apparently takes an entire year to get from 200 to 208.


The reasons this exercise is GREAT are numerous. First of all, you are always working on singles and doubles. Singles and doubles are what most of drumming is made of. Second of all, spending a couple weeks on only one combination of 8 notes makes you completely intimate with the pattern, and you will be able to interchange it in time with any feel you want. I guarantee you that by the time you finish this exercise(in 2112 or so) you will have some SERIOUS technique. One of my drum teacher’s older students is on 176 or something(he's been doing for 3 1/2 years) and has some crazy technical abilities.

Good technique means you can learn parts faster.

Yay for good technique!


p.s. do these excercises on a practice pad with LOTS of rebound. Don't worry, you won't need a pillow to "feel the burn" once you get to about 138 or so."


iv started at 100bpm (8th notes, or 2 hits per quarter note click) and it feels slow but comfortable, however, if i sped it up to around 200bpm which is the ultimate goal, it seems like it would be too easy for it to be this challenging. plus he says its a workout which im not feeling. what really throws me off though is that exercise 13 on page one is still rather difficult at 100bpm and that would be very challenging at 200bpm, nevermind at 16th notes. what speed do you think he intended for it to be played (you can explain it to me by how many times the bar would be played in a minute or so)
thanks guys! i really want to make sure this is right before i dive in.
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To be honest, im not sure the focus of the excersice is to push yourself to your limit and struggle to finish the page, i think taking it slowly then moving up to a high tempo then back down again is a great way to build your stick control not speed.

Ive found it useful to start at around 80BPM on 8th notes and do each line on page 5, 20 times then move to the next one without stopping, i move up by 5BPM every day, admittedly it does get quite dull, but after a couple of months you will notice a difference. I havnt made it to a max speed just yet but i would of thought maybe up to 240BPM eventually, then go back down 5BPM each day.

Hope this helps man! good luck! :D
 
Hey guys.... How do i get a hold of this book? I just tried Amazon and a book search engine. No cigar!

Kelly
 
Pocket... Just went to the link you supplied. So, the guys are talking about Stones book? I have that. I thought they had given a different title to a different book. Guess i misunderstood. Thanks again anyway.

K...
 
Pocket... Just went to the link you supplied. So, the guys are talking about Stones book? I have that. I thought they had given a different title to a different book. Guess i misunderstood. Thanks again anyway.

K...

Hey Birks......upon second reading, I'm not so sure. I thought we were talking about Stick Control....and hence, I thought that's what you were chasing. But I'm finding that first post so damn confusing that I no longer know what's up, down or sideways anymore.

OP, if my idiot opinion is worth anything....that info in your post is waaaaay over complicating Stick Control. Me? I'd just practice the bloody thing...as 8ths....as 16ths....whatever you like....at whatever tempo you can play them comfortably.

It wouldn't be the first time I've been accused of being a simpleton.....but this avenue, for me personally seems like nothing more than trying to re-invent the wheel. It's a simple concept, why try to run yourself ragged by making it insanely difficult?

Man...now I'm totally confused.
 
Pocket.... Well, that's what i think as well. If they are talking about using Stick Control and ramping it up like this to worlds unknown, then, yeah, it might be over complicating it. I was thinking that there was this "book" that dealt with the exercises that they described as being something i had never seen before, so i was curious for a first hand look. You should see Danny Gotllieb's copy of Stick Control The cover is gone and its in single sheets now. He still goes through it as is....

Kelly
 
guys, its about stick control by stone. and while i do appreciate the ideas, i kinda just want to know the answer to my question. what does jazz snob suggest?
 
bigA416.... Thanks for the clarification. :>)

I'm still a little lost, as i think the original thread may have taken a detour here. What is "jazz snob" and what is the issue that you want a suggestion over?

Sorry,

Kelly
 
jazzsnob was the person who posted the method im trying to clarify the tempo for. i could just post the original thread if you would like. i simply dont know if he meant to start at16th or 8th notes at 100bpm.
 
I got so much stuff in the rest of my routine, so what I use the first oages of this book to develop strenght and endurance with full wrist strokes. This means, although the tempo increases a little bit over time, that I don't really play that fast, but I concentrate on relaxation, full strokes, equal dynamics and just go until I get a bit tired. I often put a towel or a t-shirt over my pad do decrease the rebound a little bit, but when I have the time I often do this routine on the kit. If I do that I don't necessarily use just the snare, but might go through it on a couple of toms instead. Helps to clean up my tom fills and sound quality as well.
 
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