When a Part Seems Wrong...But It's Right!

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plangentmusic

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Have you ever learned a drum part, thinking you can do better, just to realize what was done was absolutely perfect?

One example is "My Best Friend" by Queen. When I first heard it I thought it was way too heavy and bombastic for the type of song it was. Then I realized, what Taylor played was the prefect compliment. Had the part been more gentle, the song would have come off wimpy.

Very humbling.

And here's another example that I just discovered. I was playing this one and again, the drums seemed very stiff and obvious -- almost "vulgar." But after trying a few approaches. I realized it fits perfectly. (Drums come in at 1:10)

This was a fun one to record. Some of you old timers might remember it. : ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AVLNMaSh4c
 
Absolutely. Ringo was my wake up call for that. Before thinking of putting someone down, you must walk a mile in their shoes first.
 
Good thought.

Yes ...so many songs.
And then I realized, simply is the way to go.
I usually start in the studio with as much as I can squeeze in ...then whittle it down to what sounds best
 
Good thought.

Yes ...so many songs.
And then I realized, simply is the way to go.
I usually start in the studio with as much as I can squeeze in ...then whittle it down to what sounds best

That's usually my approach, but sometimes it works the other way. Certain songs need the drums to be big -- not necessarily busy, just "more present."
 
... Before thinking of putting someone down, you must walk a mile in their shoes first.

Because then when you do put them down ... you'll be a mile away and have their shoes!

Seriously though, it can be quite humbling experiencing the paradigm shift between listening purely as a drummer to listening to how everything fits in as a whole.

I think the OP hit the nail on the head where it often works backwards to how you would expect.

Sometimes when listening to music as a whole, we can't put aside the drummer in us and feel that a different approach on the drums would have worked better at a certain point.

When you then go to approach that part differently yourself, it's sometimes only then do you hear how the drums do work as part of the whole and realise that they are exactly what was needed at that point.
 
Never thought about this but Kashmir comes to mind. At first I thought the beat was too plodding but now I think all that power and space is just right.

Here's one that goes the other way around. The drum track in Knife by Genesis was widely panned by critics - to non Genesis fans this track sounds very different to what you normally associate with the band. The beat John Mayhew plays is kind of lumpy - but when I was young I just accepted it for what it was and the edginess and unusualness seemed to suit the intensity of the vocal and lyric.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDgh3C6klMQ

John M was replaced by Phil Collins, who played the song far more smoothly, with more dynamics and nuance. On pretty well every level Phil plays it better but there's an atmosphere around that original version that I enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdFc9lAtcr8
 
Anther example..."Something" by the Beatles. No high hat. But the tempo is so slow, it kinda works better without it.
 
Anther example..."Something" by the Beatles. No high hat. But the tempo is so slow, it kinda works better without it.

Great example. That drum track is nuts.

Just kick and snare, letting Paul's bass do the riding ... he plays a fill after the first line of the first two verses but no fill leading to the chord change ... and somehow just adding the extra bass drum note to the beat creates a strong lift (with the keys).

Then in the bridge he's playing a part of a bolero beat on the toms with dubbed hats. What?? He first plays conventionally about halfway through the song. Then in the last verse he plays the fill after the second line instead of the first.

The only way I could come up with something like that would be if I lucked it with Eno's oblique strategy cards :)
 
Great example. That drum track is nuts.

Just kick and snare, letting Paul's bass do the riding ... he plays a fill after the first line of the first two verses but no fill leading to the chord change ... and somehow just adding the extra bass drum note to the beat creates a strong lift (with the keys).

Then in the bridge he's playing a part of a bolero beat on the toms with dubbed hats. What?? He first plays conventionally about halfway through the song. Then in the last verse he plays the fill after the second line instead of the first.

The only way I could come up with something like that would be if I lucked it with Eno's oblique strategy cards :)

Good point about the bridge. Try something like that and 999 times out of 1000 the reaction would be "What are you, HIGH?" But it's perfect.
 
A song I've enjoyed for years that has a drum part that sounds at times like it's wrong:

Bell Bottom Blues.

Jim Gordon plays what seems to be a pattern with a reverse backbeat and then does a tom infused pattern during the first part of the chorus.

I really started thinking about it last week when my Pandora Eric Clapton channel played a live version of the song (don't know the drummer) and the drummer played like any standard player (i.e. me) would play it - and I missed the character of that part.

It's probably not noticeable to the average listener but to me, the original part works really well and increases my enjoyment of the tune.
 
A song I've enjoyed for years that has a drum part that sounds at times like it's wrong:

Bell Bottom Blues.

Jim Gordon plays what seems to be a pattern with a reverse backbeat and then does a tom infused pattern during the first part of the chorus.

I really started thinking about it last week when my Pandora Eric Clapton channel played a live version of the song (don't know the drummer) and the drummer played like any standard player (i.e. me) would play it - and I missed the character of that part.

It's probably not noticeable to the average listener but to me, the original part works really well and increases my enjoyment of the tune.


Funny, that backwards beat always sounded weird to me, but yeah, now that it's in our consciousness, any other way would seem wrong!
 
My Best Friend is one of my favorite songs, because of the drumming. And I fell in love with the song well before I even played drums. Sometimes the drum part works and eventually defines the song. I would never mess with the part for that reason.

Sometimes I mess with drum parts, not because I can do it better, but because I can't do the original justice because of my talent level. But It try to stay true to the original whenever I can.

At our next gig we are going to play an accoustic set up front. Several of the regular songs we perform are being converted for this set. It is strange changing up the drum parts to some of these. Some seem more natural than others. I'll be playing bongos, tambourine, shakers and blocks during these songs. Imagine playing Sweet Home Alabama on the bongos? I never thought it would work, but somehow it sounds pretty good. Hopefully the audience feels the same way......
 
A song I've enjoyed for years that has a drum part that sounds at times like it's wrong:

Bell Bottom Blues.

Jim Gordon plays what seems to be a pattern with a reverse backbeat and then does a tom infused pattern during the first part of the chorus.

I didn't know this tune but it would be interesting to know JG's thought processes to come up with that part.

Another oldie - The Animals's Don't Let me Be Misunderstood. I always found the upbeat accents in the first half of the rhythm quirky. In my current band's cover I play the beat turned backwards on a djembe, which is a much more flowing and natural pattern to my ear ... but somehow our version didn't quite become a million-selling classic :)
 
...I always found the upbeat accents in the first half of the rhythm quirky...

It's funny you mention upbeat accents, when I listened to Russ Kunkel bass drum upbeat groove in Edge Of Seventeen by Stevie Nicks for the first time, I thought it was very odd, but upon listening to the song again, I found it was very creative, and it gives the song that special feel, it complement the guitar riff so well :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn8-4tjPxD8&feature=related
 
Who thinks the snare hits on Yes' Roundabout are quirky? ;)

not that I could ever reproduce them accurately.....
 
Great topic!

You know, this happens in the oddest of songs... some of the most unexpected.
There are seemengly simple songs that are VERY tough to get right, just because of a certain nuance or strange technique.

For example take a rather lame song Van Halen "Jump"... I listen to cover bands play it and almost EVERYTIME it does not sound right.

This is specially true with self taught drummers, eho develop a style with technical imperfections (such as your Roger Taylor example)... say Keith Moon parts, or the Ramones... some great drummers DELIBERATELY create strange sounds, spaces, grooves and feels that add character to their parts... guys like Keltner, Levon Helm, have awsome weird parts.
 
On Bell Bottom Blues, note that Jim Gordon, Derek & The Dominos drummer, put the snare on 1 & 3 and kick on 2 & 4, in the original studio album. The modern day live version has the snare at 2&4. Wonder why and who's decision it was to change. Sorta lost its appeal to me, but still a great song.
 
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