Have things changed......

B

brownie1969

Senior Member
Alright gang.....here it is. I'm wondering if I've crossed that line....that line that differentiates you from youth, to being considered, "old"....why? Because the short answer is....I'm opinionated, competitive, and critical, and it appears that such traits are no longer of any value to educate, and motivate people. The world seems so afraid to take any criticism....that I've begun to wonder if I've just become, "bitter". When I know, that is absolutely so untrue. The challenge in life...whatever your doing...is to do it better, and more creative than those before you....to, "stand on the shoulder of giants", and continue to elevate. Unfortunately (and here comes the "old-man" rant) the younger generations seem so bent on being P.C...that any type of criticism is seen as a personal attack. This is a dangerous road....
SO.....what is your take on being cynical, and critical (without malicious intent)....in forums such as this...how do you think it will be received?

Here is a good example.....(and please save the, "thats just Buddy..being Buddy speech"...I genuinely believe in his passion/criticism on the, "art" of drumming, and, if you read between the lines, you will find many truth's in his opinions.)

http://keepitlive.tripod.com/buddyrich/interview/interview.html
 
Unfortunately the world has gone way overboard with the political correctness efforts. In a world where it is becoming more difficult, peoples skins are getting thinner. Such petty things are now mean or rude or racist. When everyone seems to have lost their senses of humor. I was once asked my opinion of men wearing ear rings by a young man whom I cautioned that he may not like my answer and replied that he didn't care until I told him and he went ballistic. I said I warned you and you still asked, so get over it. I too am older and am really tired of cry babies. If you don't have a sense of humor, stay in bed. And unfortunately in a forum like this where everything is only words, and no voice inflection, unless you do the smiley face at the end people aren't wise enough to read within the context of the verbage to see the humor. 'Tis a shame that the world just won't grow up.
 
A-Freaking-Men. Something else that I see as a relatively newer development is that if you dare to disagree with the 'group opinion' on something you are asked to leave. Thankfully, reality is still reality. In 20 years when all of these people who want acclaim without having earned it realize the truth, God help their mental health professionals. There aren't psych drugs strong enough to fix the break with reality that I see a lot of people suffering from today.
 
I have nothing wrong with people having goals or dreams but I continue to remind my boss that is very difficult being a realist in a world full of dreamers.
 
I am 57,so like some of the older guys here, quite opinionated. I grew up listening to Buddy Rich,played stage band in Jr Hi and High school and then entered the Woodstock/British invasion generation. Buddy's interview seemed to target a number of those acts and he was correct in his critical assessment,I believe. Times were great for me however, as there were so many RADICALLY DIFFERENT styles emerging at the same time. Some,like Santanna, Mahavishnu ,Tower of Power,Hendrix etc, were very talented,with a far more unique and fresh perspective than the Swing Era Buddy was a part of,in my opinion. There were also about 1 million one-hit wonders,churning out 3 chord pop tunes in their garage. (Me.)

I both agree with the theme of this thread,and disagree. I do believe that many acts today are "created" by Music producers ,simply to generate a cash flow and ride a wave of popularity in various musical styles. They are totally without inspiration and indistinguishable from 1000 other groups doing the same thing. Buddy Rich seemed to be alluding to this faction in his interview. There are also at least several dozen guys on this forum with skill and musicality that I find unfathomable they are so impressive.

Are today's young musicians as a rule sensitive to criticism? I think they are. Are some of them better than than I could have imagined 30 years ago? I again think they are.

For the old guys-do yourself a favor and listen to the original Woodstock recordings . The drumming was pretty sloppy at times,as was the general musical execution,and the time was all over the board. That said,I wil never forget the first time I heard McLaughlin's "From Nothingness to Eternity" ,Tower of Power's "What is Hip" John Abercrombie "Red and Orange". Such is the cycle of life I suppose.
 
tracer said:
For the old guys-do yourself a favor and listen to the original Woodstock recordings . The drumming was pretty sloppy at times,as was the general musical execution,and the time was all over the board.
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Sir, I respectfully submit that you are listening to live recordings of musicians who are not necessarily 100% there in terms of sobriety. Compare those recordings to live recordings of many bands today, if those bands are even capable of playing a live show.
 
Exactly. Live, on the fly, party time live recordings, as opposed to studio or indoor setting were everything is perfect. Nothing is better than live music and the fact that we are human, mistakes will be made. No digital moving of single notes that even a novice like myself can do, and have done many times, with Garage Band. I think the young guys have all of the technology at their disposal and much more sophisticated toys than I had in my rock band back in 1968. The only thing miced was our singer, and not every drum. Our guitar player may have had one pedal. Spoiled is such a harsh word, but todays musicians have every tool needed to sound good.
 
Also, I must say - look at how direct he was in that interview. He gave an opinion. Not everyone had to agree with the opinion and he didn't intend to make everyone happy. So rare nowadays. Even on a FREAKING DRUMMER FORUM, like drummerworld, if you say anything even remotely different from the PC - BS - line, you are asked to leave.
 
Yeah yeah yeah, next generation is always going to be the spoiled ones that has no clue how lucky they are, doing everything wrong and not taking critisism the right way. Have you forgotten that it was exactly the same way back then when you were that age. =P Sadly the world hasn't yet come to and end even though it has been predicted to do so for ummm.... many thousand years.

People are people some percentage of us have thick skin, some of us don't. And it also depends on a day, situation and the topic at hand. This whole thread is a big generalization and I'm don't think I like it.

We young people see "bitter" old people all the time. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are truly bitter but often they are just too lazy to actually kindly explain what is wrong and just say something really offensive without thinking alternative ways to say it and when someone is offended then it's just their fault because they "can't take the reality". I see this almos daily in the university. Really high percentage of professors (at least here) are bitter old men. They do their job but they just can't handle people. And most of the time it was because intially when they were hired back in the 70's they weren't asking for such personality features. Today everything is about networking and teamwork and these bitter ones are a pain in the arse.
 
Average said:
Also, I must say - look at how direct he was in that interview. He gave an opinion. Not everyone had to agree with the opinion and he didn't intend to make everyone happy. So rare nowadays. Even on a FREAKING DRUMMER FORUM, like drummerworld, if you say anything even remotely different from the PC - BS - line, you are asked to leave.
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Problem is people don't like to hear the truth today. I've learned on forums that most folks know the answer to the question when they pose it especially on the subject of playing... or more correctly put the answer they want to hear. If that answer or observations in return doesn't match up with their expectations they wanted to hear then the world of the trouble with ego shows its ugly head and gets in the way of the learning experience and moving forward to progress out of one's happy personal comfort zone.

Only way i've learned anything of value musically speaking is to drop the walls/attitude, be humble and listen to honest pointers and constructive comments thrown your direction by those with more experience than me along the way and then from that learn to think for yourself and be yourself. Ultimately this will reflect in how you are as both a person and what you contribute as a musician in life to any situation.

Never been one to follow the "tribal" mindset. I question EVERYTHING before deciding what is the truth for me including where I actually stand as a player on the bigger scheme of things based on the mindset that I can always listen to the other guy's point of view who's paid more dues than me that I respect if it means making me a better musician by accepting and thinking over their constructive observations and playing comments.

Buddy always called it as he saw it straight up. Whether right or wrong it always got people thinking about getting a realistic personal assessment on where they were really at as a player. Something sorely missing from the mix today where everyone can consider themselves a expert player on the internet. Fortunately in the actual world of reality there is still a hope of seperating fact from fiction when you hit it on the bandstand with live humans. Either you can deliver the goods or not in those real life situations and you can't go quickly hide behind a computer keyboard to try and make it so.

Just some thoughts on the truth and learning how to deal with it they way I see it........ and no i'm not one bit bitter, quite the opposite, just being frankly honest in case anyone wants to use that poor excuse of a card in the game I see all the time against the old veterans in this business. That is just another poor excuse for taking a hard look at the bigger picture instead staying safe in one's happy comfort zone.


Make it real and honest and stay humble...........
 
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JPW said:
I see this almos daily in the university. Really high percentage of professors (at least here) are bitter old men. They do their job but they just can't handle people. And most of the time it was because intially when they were hired back in the 70's they weren't asking for such personality features. Today everything is about networking and teamwork and these bitter ones are a pain in the arse.
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Any of you gezzers want a crack at this one!!! LOL....see, this is what I'm talking about, can I say what I want to say....what I SHOULD say.......or as is required nowadays, "just leave it alone"....
Isn't it this generation that chants, "keep it real"...LOL,..... its anything but.
 
brownie1969 said:
Any of you gezzers want a crack at this one!!! .......or as is required nowadays, "just leave it alone"....
Isn't it this generation that chants, "keep it real"...LOL,..... its anything but.
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You're 40.....I'm 53....I know what you mean. So much of what I've seen, there's a huge difference between "keeping it real" and "reality".
 
brownie1969 said:
Any of you gezzers want a crack at this one!!! LOL....see, this is what I'm talking about, can I say what I want to say....what I SHOULD say.......or as is required nowadays, "just leave it alone"....
Isn't it this generation that chants, "keep it real"...LOL,..... its anything but.
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Gladly I haven't got a slightest clue what you are trying to say. Other than there is some laughing out loud involved.

Look, I'm a really honest person and get a lot of negative feedback because I always say what I think. But then there's those people who are honest AND hate people. These are the ones I personally have a problem with. Open, honest and bitter people who just want to humiliate other people and feel good about themselves while doing it and only giving contructive crtitisims when an even higher authority asks him to do it, otherwise he will just make other people's lives miserable.

We were jamming at our studio one day and my father's band mate shows up and picks up his instrument and says "let's play"... We were a bit uncertain if we were good enough so he said "come on, it's going to be crap anyways". We all laughed and began playing. And crap it was. But he played with us, gave us guidance. And later complimented our playing. It wasn't like he just was there to bash us and make us look stupid.
 
Agree with GD on the PC, BS. Have things changed, oh hell yes. Lack of civility, so called "reality" concept, gain without pain, etc. Are things generally better or worse than a generation ago? Don't know but probably the same in the round, just different.
 
brownie1969 said:
Any of you gezzers want a crack at this one!!! LOL....see, this is what I'm talking about, can I say what I want to say....what I SHOULD say.......or as is required nowadays, "just leave it alone"....
Isn't it this generation that chants, "keep it real"...LOL,..... its anything but.
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That post is totally incoherent.........blunt enough for you.
 
We have a couple of generation of kids now who have never heard the word no. Their parents show up at school to bitch and whine that its everyone's fault but their kid's that they got something other than an A. They cry daily to coaches because their kid isn;t starting or playing enough.

We raise kids in an environment were "everyone gets to play". There is no competition. No opportunity to learn how to either succeed and fail. They feel they are entitled to everything and should have to work for nothing. Certainly there are exceptions but this has been my experience with the younger generations
 
Kids now these days, their parents just don't beat them enough, I tell ya. When I was young, six feet of snow, uphill both ways, blah blah blah....

Yes, you're getting old, less relevant and are mad that the world is not what it was when you were in your prime. It's alright, you don't have to get it, we do. No need to become misanthropic because of it. I assume this post won't be a problem, your thick skin can take it.


Edit- To add something, it takes all kinds man, always has, just like in music it take all kinds. These absolutist and generalist views don't help in any way except to elevate yourself at the expense of humanity. It's much easier to say there's something wrong with everyone else and you're right than the other way around.
 
TheArchitect said:
We have a couple of generation of kids now who have never heard the word no. Their parents show up at school to bitch and whine that its everyone's fault but their kid's that they got something other than an A. They cry daily to coaches because their kid isn;t starting or playing enough.

We raise kids in an environment were "everyone gets to play". There is no competition. No opportunity to learn how to either succeed and fail. They feel they are entitled to everything and should have to work for nothing. Certainly there are exceptions but this has been my experience with the younger generations
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Apparently we have an older generation that likes to over generalize.
 
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