Continuing in the fine tradition of constructing antithetical binaries (and secretly wondering if we can produce meaningful synthesis, I suppose...) I'm curious what our fine forum members think about this question. On what side do you stand? Is it the notes or the space between them that matters?
Silence vs. Sound - Which is more important?
- Thread starter Boomka
- Start date
DestinationDrumming
Senior Member
Some of the tracks my band plays are really suited to an acoustic version. When I say to them that I think this one would be better without drums they look at me as if I was mad. Most have played with drummers who think they should always be heard. Knowing when and when not to play is important outside and inside a groove.
Pollyanna
Platinum Member
Once I came to the realisation that emulating Billy Cobham was completely out of reach I have come to increasingly embrace space in my playing and look for opportunities to lay back or out. I also find it pleasurable as a listener.
It can be a bit nerve wracking because it can be awkward to play very slowly and maintain a solid pulse. The temptation is to load up those eighth or 16th notes on the hats. It's risky to play sparsely because when it sounds good it sounds very good but if something isn't quite right it sticks out like dogs' ... things.
DD, I know that feeling. They get over it soon enough, tho, don't they?
It can be a bit nerve wracking because it can be awkward to play very slowly and maintain a solid pulse. The temptation is to load up those eighth or 16th notes on the hats. It's risky to play sparsely because when it sounds good it sounds very good but if something isn't quite right it sticks out like dogs' ... things.
DestinationDrumming said:
DD, I know that feeling. They get over it soon enough, tho, don't they?
But, how do we determine "proper" place/proportion?
Ohhhhhh, your a trickster, I can only see bad arguements where everyone basically says the same thing yet argues about it anyways.
Perhaps it's the question that matters?
BTW, Gregg, I owe you an email... Head to the grindstone this week.... finally a respite today.
jazzgregg
Pioneer Member
Perhaps, because you can't have an answer without a question, can you?=)
And no worries about the email man, whenever you can!
GB
Ha - this reminds me of art class at school. One day the teacher got us all to draw the classroom we were in, desks and everything - only, he said, don't draw the things, draw the spaces inbetween.
Some kids thought he was crazy, but some of us got it - we saw things differently, we began to understand the relationships between objects better, our drawings became more accurate - in short, we learned that space is as important as the things in it.
And also I remember listening to Dave Mattacks, how he would lay down a groove so solid, then would suddenly lash out on a fill in just the right place, and be back on the groove like it never happened - but sometimes the fill would be just one or two well-placed strokes with amazing space between, and that's where I learned that "less is more" - well, when I say learned - putting it into practice is harder - - - - ;o)
Terry
Some kids thought he was crazy, but some of us got it - we saw things differently, we began to understand the relationships between objects better, our drawings became more accurate - in short, we learned that space is as important as the things in it.
And also I remember listening to Dave Mattacks, how he would lay down a groove so solid, then would suddenly lash out on a fill in just the right place, and be back on the groove like it never happened - but sometimes the fill would be just one or two well-placed strokes with amazing space between, and that's where I learned that "less is more" - well, when I say learned - putting it into practice is harder - - - - ;o)
Terry
M
Mediocrefunkybeat
Guest
Silence is an inherent experience and one we are denatured to, as a result the importance of silence in music is often forgotten, as we see music as a means to escape. I like silence in music. Prescient pauses make for a far more interesting experience.
con struct
Platinum Member
It all depends. Riding on the subway I long for silence. Sitting in a quiet room I'll decide I want to hear music.
On the very rare occasions when I take a drum solo I like to play a really fast roll and then BAM! And then play nothing for a beat or two. It's only a few seconds of silence but it seems a lot longer.
On the very rare occasions when I take a drum solo I like to play a really fast roll and then BAM! And then play nothing for a beat or two. It's only a few seconds of silence but it seems a lot longer.
Pollyanna
Platinum Member
aydee said:
Abe, maybe we take sound more for granted because we're:
1) surrounded by it most of the time and
2) the whole point of drums is to make sounds - something to which neighbours of drummers can testify.
You certainly don't get much actual silence at gigs and rehearsals because, even without the band playing, people are yakking and carrying on.
I saw the Brandenburg Orchestra a few years ago and they are very quiet. So the audience was respectfully silent. During the performance my shoes were giving me hell, and I remember trying desperately to slip them off without a heel clunking on the wooden floor - even a tiny bit. That's how quiet you needed to be during the performance.
The orchestra finished a longish piece and when they stopped there was immediately this explosion of coughing and throat clearing. Everyone cracked up about it, including the orchestra members.
Silence ain't easy so I guess, like many rare things, it's considered valuable.
...
LOL Polly, I too get uncontrollable scratchiness in my throat which comes out of nowhere every time I have to 'sit through' something.
I think Boomka's poser has layers of abstraction and I am intrigued by the principle of it. I also realize there is an angular nod to the technique/feel thread in there too and if he is implying an analogy, I do see it.
These days I'm spending a lot of time studying Dennis Chamber's work, and am gradually discovering that a lot of what he does, broadly speaking, is inversions.i.e. he's playing the natural spaces and not playing the natural notes (downbeats, upbeats etc).
He is masterfully rearranging the placements and voicings of sounds that we are predisposed to hearing in certain ways/places
Kind of like an upside down ying/yang...! Whatever.
To me its something like a perspective drawing, an Escher painting. Do you see and/or create a row of gothic columns or do you see the shape of the empty spaces within? Is the box facing you or facing away from you?
Sure, it takes the Yin to define the Yang and vice versa and anything else is a pure sheet of sound or eternal silence, but upon reflection, I'll pick silence first because it is the first constant and must be in place before you can break it or fill it up with sound.
At the very least silence should be 'felt, understood and respected' before you you begin to turn up the proverbial Marshall volume knob to 11 rather than the other way around.
Ok, I''ll get off my armchair about now...
PS- am also reminded of a great Quincy quote who once told the Colombia execs on Thriller( they wanted more orchestration in the Billy Jean groove and thought it was too bare ) " lets leave a little room for God".
...
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Pollyanna
Platinum Member
Strangely enough, I rarely feel like clearing my throat unless I'm not allowed to do it.
Wow, if Dennis C is playing between the spaces, they're either very small or old age is getting me hearing music at 78rpm!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6c5_5WdAmY
I can't tell if he's doing anything upsidedown; just that's he's doing a helluva lot with consummate ease. His playing reminds me of the famous Vinnie anecdote when running off one of Uncle Frank's scores.
Yeah, I guess there is a yin/yang thing going on with music and spaces. I think of dynamics like holidays; if you have a holiday all the time then it doesn't feel like a holiday any more.
Wow, if Dennis C is playing between the spaces, they're either very small or old age is getting me hearing music at 78rpm!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6c5_5WdAmY
I can't tell if he's doing anything upsidedown; just that's he's doing a helluva lot with consummate ease. His playing reminds me of the famous Vinnie anecdote when running off one of Uncle Frank's scores.
Yeah, I guess there is a yin/yang thing going on with music and spaces. I think of dynamics like holidays; if you have a holiday all the time then it doesn't feel like a holiday any more.
caddywumpus
Archnemesis of Larryace
As a parent of 2 young kids, silence is what I prefer if I had the choice...
caddywumpus
Archnemesis of Larryace
So true, man! I can't stand being away on weekend trips, let alone weeks of touring. It's tough not hearing my kids' voices every day. But, right now it's night time, and in contrast to the rest of THIS day, the silence is a welcome divertissement...
jjmason777
Senior Member
John Bonham once said " It's what you DON'T play that counts".