Mike Mangini - holly cow!

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
When Mike Portnoy first left Dream Theater, as a fan, I was hurt, and my initial reaction was I'll never go see a Dream Theater concert again. But after some thought, I realized why things happened. And I fully understood why the band did what they did, and I predicted Mangini would eventually end up with the gig. And from watching the audition footage, I fully understand why Mangini was selected.

Still, I was a bit skeptical. The single came out, and it was OK, but not great. But then the full album came out, and wow, I was blown away.

But still, despite defending the bands choice to go with Mangini, and despite my love of the new album, I still had a huge mental block over seeing DT live without Portnoy. To the point, when they came to Los Angeles a few months back, I didn't go. I just couldn't do it.

However, the band slipped in another Southern California show, and I went last night.

Holly cow!!!

Yes, I seen Mangini videos on youtube, I've read the interviews, seen the pictures, but none of that compares to seeing the man live in person. No video does the man justice. He is one of the most amazing drummers I've ever seen in my life, and I've seen all the big names.

The best comparison I could say is he is Terry Bozzio and Simon Phillips in one person, with more.

And I don't mean, well, he's copped some of Bozzio's stuff and some of Simon's stuff. I mean he has 100% everything that makes Bozzio great and 100% everything that makes Simon great, plus way, way more, all in one person.

The way he goes between right and left hand lead with ease is just sick. His sticking patterns are insane. His kit doesn't got from left to right, or vise versa, it goes from the center out. And trying to follow along with what he's doing is just mind boggling.

His toms and many of cymbals are very low, yet his (Pearl version) octabons and other cymbals are set way up high above his head. You look and think "wow, that is a long distance for the stick to travel". And yet Mangini would do fills between the octabons and toms as if they were all on the same level.

When I read in an interview a while back about how Mangini phrases things melodically to match the other instruments, I thought, "whatever Mike". But to see it live was amazing. There were so many times where one of the guys would do a run on the bass or keyboard, and Mangini would not only match it note for note rhythmically, but note for note melodically over his toms and cymbals.

And when the band played the older songs, I was amazed how it did not sound forced. It did not sound like "well, here is the new guy playing Portnoy's old parts". Mangini laid such a pocket that it sounded like he must be the guy who played on all those albums.
And his affect on the rest of the band was noticeable. The joke in Dream Theater for the past 15 years is John Myung doesn't move once the band starts. But on this night, he as running around on stage. Everyone in the band seemed to be feeding off of Mangin's energy in a way I had never seen before, and I've seen Dream Theater some 20+ times.

Just an unbelievable mix of maximum technique, musicality, and energy.

I obviously was not the only person who was moved, because as the band was preparing to take their final bow, chants of "Man-gi, Man-Gi, Man-Gi" erupted from the crowd. I have never seen a rock concert audience start chanting for the drummer like that before.

I was simply blown away.
 
(..) There were so many times where one of the guys would do a run on the bass or keyboard, and Mangini would not only match it note for note rhythmically, but note for note melodically over his toms and cymbals.
As impressive as this sounds, and with all due respect etc blah blah - personally I even don't want drums to be used this way. I do like the contrasts of instruments being 'entangled' to some degree but not follow one another as strictly as possible, to create some cohesion and distinctiveness at the same time. I'm not aware of the specific runs/fills you mentioned (and I've stopped being a DT fan some years ago no matter what they're doing now because IMO they are repeating themselves) but it would fall into DT's perfectionist scheme of having the toms etc tuned to semi tones or in a 'musical' way which I also consider complete crap. Perfectionism is a good thing but it can become too much of a good thing. Just my opinion.
 
That was some really silly post in my opinion...
Mike Mangini hasn't his toms tuned in absolute notes, of course. (As opposed to Terry B.).

DT repeating themselves: a) how do you know if you don't listen to them anymore?
b) which famous band doesn't to a certain degree?

Actually all of your statements can be commented with the same sentence:
Listen to Mike Mangini with DT before you judge. He certainly doesn't follow
the other instruments as strictly as possible, believe me, he does create enough
counterpoint, tension and individuality in his parts.
 
(...) Mike Mangini hasn't his toms tuned in absolute notes, of course. (As opposed to Terry B.).
Why "of course"? It's his/DT's decision - if he/they want to do so they would. I didn't say they DO this, I said it would be typical for DT in their craze for perfection to do so. I don't care, I don't estimate this approach a musical achievement. IIRC then this idea tuning the drums to semitones was being discussed on this forum so I didn't rule out they/Mangini did so in fact.

(...) DT repeating themselves: a) how do you know if you don't listen to them anymore? b) which famous band doesn't to a certain degree?
a) They made several albums which (to my ears) weren't up to their best level. Is it my duty to give _any_ band the chance to keep me as a fan to buy their newest album even when I didn't really like the previous ones? No, I decided to end my interest in them, period. Mike Mangini or whoever doesn't change anything.
b) Er - is this to be an excuse? Well some bands know when to stop. 25 yrs doing more or less the same (although on a marvellous technical level) is a bit pointless to me. Some bands get it, some don't.

Actually all of your statements can be commented with the same sentence: Listen to Mike Mangini with DT before you judge. He certainly doesn't follow the other instruments as strictly as possible, believe me, he does create enough counterpoint, tension and individuality in his parts.
No, thanks. I've spent enough time with DT. Just ignore my post if you consider it so stupid. -- This is the end of my participation in this thread. Opinions may differ, you know. Enough time spent on DT.
 
jesus. omnipotent attitude.
 
No, I decided to end my interest in them, period. Mike Mangini or whoever doesn't change anything..

Actually, he did. Or rather the circumstances of his joining did.

I had given up in the band. I thought their two prior two albums were crap, their prior tour was awful, and I had pretty much stopped being a fan.

But whatever, if you haven't listened to the subject matter of the thread, that doesn't give you much ground to stand on and criticize the subject matter. You admitting you don't like something you haven't heard. Brilliant.

But I'm fine with that. That means you won't be competing with me to get a good ticket or trying to stand in front of me next time they come to town. LOL.
 
I haven't seen the band live yet with Mangini. I own the new album, and I watched
the videos on their webpage, so I've seen his solo.

And I must say, so far I'm liking Mangini much more within the music. His solo is
breathtaking technically, that's for sure. But somehow it rather leaves me cold. As
he says so himself, it's kind of a constructed piece for the audience, and I think it
is constructed rather with a showing-off-attitude than a musical-compositional one.

I don't necessarily mean that in a negative way, but personally I'd rather heard
something more musically profound. He absolutely is a great entertainer though,
and he really communicates with the audience. And yeah, he has so much energy,
it's stunning!
But it's a bit sad that behind the monstrous technique there isn't much to the soloing.

That's why I rather listen to him playing the songs :).
 
As impressive as this sounds, and with all due respect etc blah blah - personally I even don't want drums to be used this way. I do like the contrasts of instruments being 'entangled' to some degree but not follow one another as strictly as possible, to create some cohesion and distinctiveness at the same time. I'm not aware of the specific runs/fills you mentioned (and I've stopped being a DT fan some years ago no matter what they're doing now because IMO they are repeating themselves) but it would fall into DT's perfectionist scheme of having the toms etc tuned to semi tones or in a 'musical' way which I also consider complete crap. Perfectionism is a good thing but it can become too much of a good thing. Just my opinion.
Arky I would be curious about your opinion of some audio I just included in the My Playing section. I've always seen you as a pretty reasonable guy, and can't entirely get the close minded thing.

DED, this is what I've been saying about Mangini from the get go. He's never been my favorite drummer ...but the guy can do anything he wants on a drum set...including create, re create, superimpose, imitate, read absolutely anything at all (something I really envy) and adapt like a chameleon to any situation. I don't think you could ever typecast him.

And one of the secrets to his success is that people always make assumptions about him regarding one thing or the other and big time underestimate him. After watching people in my own family fall in that category I've seen how it can work to someone's favor if they understand what's going on and use the under estimation as part of a strategy. So when you combine all this to Mangini's intensity and that huge brain of his, it's usually going to play out in the way you describe.
 
That was great! I read all 3 installments. I totally get where he's setting up his kit like that - makes perfect sense, but I can't imagine how much time it would take to learn to play it. I also get how happy he is to be in Dream Theater since he's got free reign to set up and play however he wants. He's like a kid in a candy store. I couldn't be happier for the guy.

So really wanting to hear him play it, I pull up DT on Rhapsody... wow. How depressing. I know I should keep it to myself but I was so stoked to enjoy Mangini's drumming... I could not get past the rest of the band and gonged them after about 2/3 of the record. I couldn't handle it anymore. Terrible. Never has a group of less musical and über clichéd overplaying musicians ever been assembled.
 
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