Black Beauty finish question.

WalterKohn

WalterKohn

Senior Member
Has anyone ever stripped the black nickel off the black beauty before so that it is just the brass finish?

Does it affect the sonic qualities?

I ask because I just noticed a huge gash in my BB and was contemplating on stripping the black nickel to the bare brass and letting it patina nice then clear coating it...

I really like the look of the copper finish. I know brass is slight different in coloring.. I have scoured the interwebs looking for anyone who has done this and could not find anything....
 
To my knowledge the nickel plating gives the Black Beauty's shell a warmer tone.

The downside of stripping your Black Beauty shell to the bare brass is that it devalues the drum should you ever decide to sell it.

I would consider having the shell repaired and replated. I'd contact Steele Turkington at Kentville Drums for his opinion. He knows his stuff.

www.kentvilledrums.com.au
 
I believe Ludwig has both Brass and Bronze supraphonics available. I 'think' they are the LB 420 and LB 550 series. There was also a LM304 brass snare made for the Rockers series.

Instead of stripping the BB, why not just get a real brass drum?
 
KamaK said:
I believe Ludwig has both Brass and Bronze supraphonics available. I 'think' they are the LB 420 and LB 550 series. There was also a LM304 brass snare made for the Rockers series.

Instead of stripping the BB, why not just get a real brass drum?
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I have a Brass Supraphonic, a 6.5x14" to be exact. The nickel plating is scratched deep in one spot and I am pondering stripping it to the brass. Doesn't mean I will I just was trying to get some info.

Sonic qualities if stripped
Pictures of anyone else who might have done it etc
 
So to answer you question: probably yes it will affect the sound slightly if stripped.
From a discussion I had with Curt Waltrip regarding plating on brass shells, he informed me that the black nickel plating slightly warms/mellows, focuses the sound. This was a decision I had to make when ordering my Joyful Noise brass snare.

Personally, I'd get a quote on a repair from a qualified/experienced person as Vintage Old School has suggested.
 
If you could tell the difference blindfolded between a Ludwig brass, black beauty, and a COB, then you must be able to tell what I had for lunch based on what my farts sound like.
 
I have never owned a Black Beauty. I have owned a N.O.B. Pearl Sensitone Elite,as well as a non-plated Brass Sensitone and a World Max Brass. With the exception of the Nickel plating on one,the drums were all identical. They had the same lugs and strainers. I outfitted them all with S-Hoops and Puresounds.
I assume Pearl sourced all the Sensitone Elite parts from World Max.

The N.O.B was warmer and more controlled than the other two. The Brass Sensitone and the World Max were very similar.
 
I have a Black Beauty and use it most of the time, but I also have a Pearl Sensitone brass that doesn't have the black nickel plating, and to me, there's not a huge difference. I'm not sure I can even hear it, to be honest.

Thing is, is there just too many other factors that make one drum sound different from another, and the *vast majority* of the time, it's because of heads and tuning. I mean, seriously; how many people have been able to run the experiment between plated and non-plated on otherwise identical drums while holding every other variable constant?

I think you'd have to get seriously OCD with a Tunebot to make sure each respective head was absolutely identical at every lug, and you'd also have to assume zero variability between identical heads brand new right out of the box.

So I gotta ask - to those that think they can hear a difference, how can you be sure that the difference you're hearing is because of the different plating? I've been drumming for over 30 years and owned dozens of snares in that time, and I still don't have a magical formula for how to tune with that kind of precision. I basically put heads on, crank the reso, go medium tight on the batter ... and that's just my starting point. It's all by ear after that. I have enough experience to know how to get rid of certain annoying qualities and dial it in, but it takes 20 minutes and it's NEVER exacting enough for something like a plating contribution to rise above the noise of tuning inconsistencies.

Anyway, if you want to strip the plating off, I doubt you'd be able to pinpoint any sonic difference after you put the heads back on and tuned it up somewhere close to where you had it. You'd probably never notice, if I had to guess.

If it were me, I'd take a Sharpie to the wound and call it good enough, which is what I do with my drums when they pick up an egregious rash.
 
MikeM said:
Anyway, if you want to strip the plating off, I doubt you'd be able to pinpoint any sonic difference after you put the heads back on and tuned it up somewhere close to where you had it. You'd probably never notice, if I had to guess.

If it were me, I'd take a Sharpie to the wound and call it good enough, which is what I do with my drums when they pick up an egregious rash.
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This is what I have basically read on other forums. I am not worried about the sonic quality as much after researching after I posted this thread.

I know that I will not be selling it and I don't really care about the rash tbh. I just was hoping someone already did this and I could see what the finish looked like. I really really like the raw patina copper finish on the copper supraphonic and was hoping it would be in the realm of that.

Love the sharpie idea! When I clean my cymbals that's how I re-logo them lol!!
 
MikeM said:
Anyway, if you want to strip the plating off, I doubt you'd be able to pinpoint any sonic difference after you put the heads back on and tuned it up somewhere close to where you had it. You'd probably never notice, if I had to guess.
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I agree. The sonic variance between a plated and unplated shell is going to be no greater than the sonic variance between two identical shells. Basically, the variance is too small to be of consequence.

I agree with the Sharpe suggestion. There's also those 3-volt at-home plating kits. You'd have to find a good black nickel composition though. and $50 is quite steep.
 
MikeM said:
So I gotta ask - to those that think they can hear a difference, how can you be sure that the difference you're hearing is because of the different plating? . . . . . Anyway, if you want to strip the plating off, I doubt you'd be able to pinpoint any sonic difference after you put the heads back on and tuned it up somewhere close to where you had it. You'd probably never notice, if I had to guess.
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For the most part I'd have to agree with you here. The general population most likely couldn't identify the differences between a Black Beauty and a stripped BB brass shell in a blind A/B test.
When I'm at a concert in a large arena I often can't tell what sort of snare drum is being played unless I speak with the drummer, the drum tech or the stage manager.

So this is where the best answer lies in a person's experience and credibility. I trust a handful of drum builders, individuals skilled in drum restoration and drum techs who tell me there is a
difference between the two shells in question here because they have experimented with brass shells and black nickel plated shells, and even if the sonic quality is measured in nuances,
they say it is different. I discount a lot of what is written on the internet, but there are some of individuals I trust implicitly.

The bulk of my livelihood is location audio recording. I get paid to hear and to identify the "nuances." While I have never personally done an A/B recording of a plated and stripped Black Beauty
shell, I can tell you--all things being equal as humanly possible--the microphones I use never lie. They always tell the truth, especially in a controlled studio environment.

Blindfolded, I'd be hard pressed to correctly identify the two different shells. But an honest capture of audio in a studio where the two drums could be properly A/B'd would leave little doubt:
very, very close, but with subtle differences.
 
Ghostnote said:
If you could tell the difference blindfolded between a Ludwig brass, black beauty, and a COB, then you must be able to tell what I had for lunch based on what my farts sound like.
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I'm sorry, but this is the best thing I've read in weeks.
 
There's always the posdibility that the scratch in your BB goes deeper than you realise, so that if you strip the shell back to brass, you'll still see some damage. Doesn't seem worth the effort/risk to me.
 
Walter, if you want permission to alter your snare, you have mine.

You could buy a 1957 Ferrari 250 Testa Rosa and push it off the Cliffs of Dover. Lots of people would gnash, wail and call you names - "heretic" probably being the nicest. But, it yours to do with, as you please.

If it were mine, and I was inclined to commit some heresy, I would attack it with a steel wire brush mounted on a bench grinder or drill motor. (Scratch? What scratch?!?)

Having said that, the Sharpie idea sounds quick and easy.
 
Buy cases! Hell buy a Copper phonic (and put it in a case)!! Please do not bastardize a drum to hide your f--k up. Oh and definitely explain to us how it is you "just noticed a huge gash" in your $800 snare drum. Every aspect of this is wrong from your lack of care and attention paid to your proposed solution to fix it. Sorry, but I care for my drums. My real answer? Get a new one and try again.
 
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I highly doubt you can hear any sonic differences. That nickel plating, together with copper plating below, is usually about 20 µm. If it was chrome plated, it would have about 0.3 µm of chrome on top of copper+nickel.
Human hair is about 100 µm, similar to a coat of paint.
The only reason I see for plating brass/copper drums is to eliminate patina.
 
oriollo said:
I highly doubt you can hear any sonic differences. That nickel plating, together with copper plating below, is usually about 20 µm. If it was chrome plated, it would have about 0.3 µm of chrome on top of copper+nickel.
Human hair is about 100 µm, similar to a coat of paint.
The only reason I see for plating brass/copper drums is to eliminate patina.
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This is what I have suspected as well, thanks for the confirmation. I really would love to see a Black Beauty unplated and with patina. To be honest that is the finish I wish my Black Beauty came with after seeing the Copperphonic in a raw patina finish!
 
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