How Many of You Double as Recording Engineers?

B

BigSteve

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It seems to me that a good many of us drummers also double as the Sound Engineer or Recording Engineer. In the recent past I was the one in the band that had the PA gear and could produce good sound for the whole band. Now I'm the one who mixes and masters our recordings. Not complaining at all, it seems like alot of us drummers do this and I enjoy it. Is this more common for drummers? or just another creative outlet for us?

BTW I am not by any stretch a pro studo engineer...I just like doing the mixing/mastering and am constantly learning from those who do have good ears and pro equipment.
 
I've done musical engineering and producing for a long time but never professionally, drums are a lot harder to record and mix than something like a guitar or somthing with a mono out which may be why drummers might take more interest in recording, For me I was doing recording before drumming


I recently recorded my band, have a listen if you like:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3069968/DOR/Listen_files/01 Old Time Rock n Roll.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3069968/DOR/Listen_files/Play That Funky Music White Boy.mp3
 
i love it. ive been recording things since i realized i could record sounds with my tape recorder i had as a kid. then a day came when put i put a mic in front of my drums and thought "with a little work this could sound awesome". it was something about the kick that just floored me initially. it still does actually. there is just so much to drums when it comes to recording. to me they really take shape under a mic (or 15 mic's if you please). guitars and vocal's are easy to mic... but drums! there is so much room for artistic expression. that had a lot to do with it. i wanted to be able to speak and understand what goes on in recording and use it as part of my voice. a guitar player gets his/her tone from their amp and guitar. usually theres a mic right in front of it and maybe another for ambiance. they are usually getting the same sound back from recording as they hear when they play. but whenever i recorded in the past i would listen back to the drums and say WOW there has to be so much that you can do with that. it's been an obsession ever since.
 
I got into it because I was tired of "just being the drummer" in the band.

And since I didn't write songs at the time, and I can't sing back ups very well, being an engineer seemed like a great way to make myself more valuable to any band.
 
It started out as fun stuff for me, now it's my career as I'm one of the audio guys working at Disney. I loved recording and doing sound, and now at Disney, we're on the cutting edge of it and actually use lots of computers and ethernet to route sound all over the resort. Got into stuff like LCS and AMX, System Architect....come to think of it, I haven't actually done any good ol' audio mixing in a long time now....
 
I have some gear and some software. I love playing around with recording and mixing, but im not that good and dont know much about it.
 
I record all band practices, EQ the songs and post them on a gated band website. Occasionally the songs need more than EQ like stitching the best of two versions together, trying for bathroom mixes, cutting up jams to keep the good stuff and skip excess noodling, etc.

So yes, Steve. I like doing sound.

In the 80s I had a 4-track, sequencer and drum machine and put together about 20 songs with occasional guest appearances by friends. Then the guitarist in my band at the time borrowed all of my gear. Then he broke up with his g/f and moved interstate (with my gear). Then he developed a habit. Then my gear was pawned off. Then my home recording adventure ended.
 
It started out as fun stuff for me, now it's my career as I'm one of the audio guys working at Disney. I loved recording and doing sound, and now at Disney, we're on the cutting edge of it and actually use lots of computers and ethernet to route sound all over the resort. Got into stuff like LCS and AMX, System Architect....come to think of it, I haven't actually done any good ol' audio mixing in a long time now....

I got into it because I was tired of "just being the drummer" in the band.

And since I didn't write songs at the time, and I can't sing back ups very well, being an engineer seemed like a great way to make myself more valuable to any band.

This is something that has interested me...how does anyone learn to record and mix?
 
This is something that has interested me...how does anyone learn to record and mix?

Mostly by watching engineers during times I've been in the studio.

Then getting some gear/software, and lots of trial and error.

Although there are classes that can be taken.
 
Yeah, when I was 18 and graduated high school, the first college course I ever took was a recording engineering class at a community college. It kinda' fueled the fire to learn more and get into more situations doing that stuff.

But the constant between that and playing music is the LISTENING to music. By listening, then you know what you're going for, just like when we listen to music, you know what's already been said. It does provide a focus. You need to know why you're mixing a band, or at least know what kind of sound you don't want to project.

It is easy to neglect that, though, from both sides (drumming and audio engineering) because we get so caught up in the minutiae of doing either. A side business that cropped up on the audio side was repairing stuff. I spent alot of time soldering things and building solutions to audio problems. On the drumming side I got into repair and modifications too.
 
I record all band practices, EQ the songs and post them on a gated band website. Occasionally the songs need more than EQ like stitching the best of two versions together, trying for bathroom mixes, cutting up jams to keep the good stuff and skip excess noodling, etc.

So yes, Steve. I like doing sound.

In the 80s I had a 4-track, sequencer and drum machine and put together about 20 songs with occasional guest appearances by friends. Then the guitarist in my band at the time borrowed all of my gear. Then he broke up with his g/f and moved interstate (with my gear). Then he developed a habit. Then my gear was pawned off. Then my home recording adventure ended.

I must be evil, because I found this post hilarious.

I'd be tempted to go hunting the dude with a baseball bat and some wicked swings.

But still.... funny stuff.
 
I must be evil, because I found this post hilarious.

I'd be tempted to go hunting the dude with a baseball bat and some wicked swings.

But still.... funny stuff.

Have to admit I was a lot more sad than mirthful about it. I loved making music and recording it.

I guess I can see humour in that it's such a typical idiot muso tale. My dumb naivete in lending the stuff out was comical enough without his standard muso meltdown on top.

After his first breakup with his g/f he needed a place to stay. So I let him use my spare room for a while and he used my gear while I was at work. He was putting together some good music so when he asked for a loan of the gear after making up with his g/f and moving back in with her, I thought I'd give him the chance to do his thang. My work was pretty busy at the time so I didn't have much chance to do anything myself. No point being a dog in the manger, right?

When I found out that he'd gone interstate and pawned off the stuff I admit that the idea of paying him a visit with weaponry did come to mind ... I lost a Teac 4-track, and ESQ-1 sequencer and a TR 707 drum machine. Cost about $4-5k back then. Would that be about $10k+ in today's money?

It gets sillier still. About 10 years later he sent me an Xmas card saying sorry and promising to replace the gear. That was about 13 years ago ...

I now have Reason on my PC but I'm getting a bit old and dumb and the only thing I can work out on it is creating basic drum loops :(
 
i know enough to be dangerous, but i must admit that some of the recording engineers i've worked with really know their stuff. they know just what to tweak to make every instrument sound just right. to me, a full pro tools setup is very intimidating with all its thousands of plug ins, each one with a million adjustments. those guys know exactly how to push all the right buttons to make everything sound great. i applaud them!
 
This is something that has interested me...how does anyone learn to record and mix?

Understanding acoustics is a good start, you can read about that free on the net,
Also nothing replaces your own actual recording experience.
There are certain guidelines that most engineers follow, for instance, every instrument has their place in the mix..When you have 2 instruments occupying the same frequency range, you pan to either side...I'm no pro, but there are certain basic common sense concepts that should be followed. Acoustics is a complex subject. Start reading about it. Like one full bass wavelength of 60 hertz (if memory serves) is like 20 feet long. If your room is 20 feet long you could have a standing wave, which is not a good thing. Of course many other factors affect the 20 feet long room, I am just using this as an example. Then there's phase cancellation, a real concern. It's complex.

You also need great listening skills to do sound. You have to be able to listen to a mix and determine what it's lacking, what is too hot volume wise, the timbre of each instrument (is it pleasing?) and a myriad of other concerns. So yea good ears are a must. If you are tone deaf and have a tin ear, that may be too much to overcome.
 
Thanks for all of the replies...been gone for a few days. I did listen to some of the posted recordings. It seems like I have a long way to go comparing some of the more professional mixes to mine. Jonutarr and DrumEatDrum have some nice mixes out there.
Polly I have heard what you have recorded and you do a nice job as well. My gear is pretty low end but it's what I have for now. I'm using Reaper as my DAW and still figuring that out, not even close to learning something like Pro Tools at this stage although I may shoot for Logic at some point since I'm running a Mac at home. If I get some mixes I'm more happy with I'll post a couple.
 
Yeah, when I was 18 and graduated high school, the first college course I ever took was a recording engineering class at a community college. It kinda' fueled the fire to learn more and get into more situations doing that stuff.

Also nothing replaces your own actual recording experience.

From what I have read on the net, getting experience in the first place is one of the hard things about being someone fresh out of their recording engineering course.

When I was in the studio (I was playing a drum track), the way the engineers cleaned up the sound and got a good drum sound out of something raw amazed me...I got the feeling they had started out with small studio tasks - helping and learning from more experienced sound engineers - until they got enough on-the-job experience to to even get to use the desk.
 
I started playing guitar at 9, started a band at 13, recording on a 4-track at 16,
played bass in a band at 18-21 then guitar in a band again from 23-27 (moved to Nashville because a record label was interested) band disolved....started recording more and more as the DAW took hold. I've been recording and producing music for 7 years now and heard that drums were the most difficult instrument to record....so I picked up a kit and started bangin' away! ( I grew to hate arranging drum parts in drum software such as addictive drums and EZ drummer as well) bleh!!!!

Then I picked up some more mics, better cymbals and an interface that could handle 8+ in's....I've been around drums for half my life and sequenced/arranged drums for the other half so when I sat behind my new kit for the first time it was somehow familiar and comfortable even though I had very little time behind the kit previously....

Been practicing everyday since Dec 2009
I've always had G.A.S. (gear aquisition syndrome) now it has just transferred to cymbals
and drum heads haha!

My wife sings and we have put out a CD of original music in the vein I like to call Jazz-Grunge and now working on a second cd - this time it's going to have a real kit played by a real drummer....

I am not super great on the kit but I already like the way it sounds with me playing
to our music WAY more than those perfect studio sound - quantized LOOP based junk.
So sterile and lifeless.....

And recording myself play has been a great tool in advancing my technique.
Recording myself to a song with a click track is UBER helpful as well as I have taught myself NOT to speed up on fills and layback on the choruses because I have a tendency to pick it up when the song intensity changes.....I may have never got that if I wasn't
recording myself.

cheers!
 
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