Heads, tunning....does it really matter?

I have been playing for over 40 years (ouch!). I also have been in the audio business for almost as long. I was having lunch with a senior sound man and while discussing audio boards he asked me this question (music was playing in the restaurant), "Tell me which board was used to mix this song!". Of course, I could not, no one could. He said, "That's how important one good board is over another."

I can't help but see that the same applies to drums. If you are physically standing in the room listening to different (but similar sizes) drum kits without other instruments playing.....yes, you will hear differences.

I have to say (and I think deep down we all know this) as soon as the other instruments kick in, it becomes difficult to here those subtle differences. If the kit is miced through a PA, with EQ and compression...forget it.

A song on the radio, tell me what drum set it is, just by listening.....pretty tough, huh!

I have been in recording studios with a killer drum mix from a literal no name POS kit that sounded incredible. I have heard pricey kits sound terrible.

The most important things are the room acoustics, then the heads and how they are tuned. If you move a great sounding kit to another environment it is shocking how different they can sound.

I think the best sounds come from those who know what sounds good. Luckily most of you know what sounds good regardless of the price tag.


Skip

I always thought that a good board doesn't color the sound or have specific discernable characteristics, and in a perfect world, you shouldn't be able to tell one from another!

But drums are designed to sound different (via sizing, wood type, plies, and thickness) as are heads (via plies, thickness, damping and coating.)

In theory, mics are supposed to simply capture sound, but they have different charcteristics and those differences are routinely employed appropriately.

To a certain extent, I suppose anything could be made to sound like something else, with enough fiddling. But that's not an excuse to start out with sub-par gear and hope it will be brought to life in the mix. Likewise, a drummer with great gear should know how to tune. There's no excuse for even a semi-experienced drummer to not know when a drum sounds bad, or how to correct it.

Bermuda

I remember years ago that the magazine, Stereo Review, which was a audiophile magazine for home systems, recorded a concert of symphonic style using a mannequin with a mic in each ear for true stereo as you and I would hear it. According to most people it sounded bad. Not enough mics. not any mix etc. We want more options. Same with drums. We want more options. It may not matter if it was set A or B, but if we can hear a difference, one will sound better than the other.

You should hear "mix men" talk about audio boards, they can be very opinionated over the way the board sounds.

If sonic purity was the true aspiration of recording there would be no board at all, just run the best mics (there's a whole new discussion) right into a pre amp (there's another discussion) directly to a multi-track recorder (yep, more discussion), mix it (discussion 4), master it (5), then God knows how it will ultimately be listened to by the public.

So, the board's purity is only one of a long line of sonic considerations all of which can and do color the sound. That's why the drum sound shouldn't be something to drive yourself crazy with as it can and most likely will sound different in different venues and recording sessions.

Now if you travel with the the same sound gear and tech, and record with the same guys in the same studio, sure you can have a signature sound.

Certainly, get the sound you like...... but it's not worth extremes for subtle nuances that will likely never be appreciated or heard at all.

Skip

Skipa1 said:

Certainly, get the sound you like...... but it's not worth extremes for subtle nuances that will likely never be appreciated or heard at all.

Click to expand...

True, I don't sweat the tiny nuances and I understand that as a drummer, I hear things on a solo kit that nobody would hear in the mix. I never use that as an excuse to be lazy about sounds, but I also know that perfection exists from different perspectives, and I won't make myself - or anyone else - crazy over it. That is, I won't waste my or anyone else's time working harder to achieve the same result.

Bermuda

so many drummers ask about achieving the sound of "so and so" a drummer, but so many fail to realize the sound and "tricks" of the studio that got that drummer his sound.

no doubt that tuning for the studio is often times way different than tuning for the gig.

just make your kit sound the best you can for the gig you're doing AND -- if the sound man is worth anything -- he SHOULD be able to capture that sound.

that's the great thing about being a drummer versus other instruments -- we have NO set tuning we have to follow. we tune either to what our ear likes, or to the gig or recording we are doing.

Skipa1 said:

I have been playing for over 40 years (ouch!). I also have been in the audio business for almost as long. I was having lunch with a senior sound man and while discussing audio boards he asked me this question (music was playing in the restaurant), "Tell me which board was used to mix this song!". Of course, I could not, no one could. He said, "That's how important one good board is over another."

Click to expand...

What's a "senior sound man?" I've been around studios for my entire career and I've never heard of that designation. It it like an engineer?
"Does it really matter?" Yes, it does. Otherwise you could go into any little crappy studio with crap gear and make great sounding recordings. That's possible but it's nothing to take chances on. But I'll add that a lousy engineer can make the lousiest recording you've ever hear using a state of the art SSL console. It's largely about who's manning the faders, just as a great drum sound largely comes down to who's playing the drums and how he's got them set. Yes, it matters. Heads matter, cymbals matter, bass pedals matter, it all matters. Or at least it should, in my opinion. If it doesn't, well, good luck.

Skipa1 said:

Luckily most of you know what sounds good regardless of the price tag.

Skip

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that.

If you read internet forums, many think that more expensive is automatically better. They talk about wood types and all manner of details but can't admit that the majority of the sound is produced by 1. room's acoustics, 2. head selection and 3. tuning.

A coated vs clear head will sound more different than maple vs birch! Most can't even tune well or don't have adequate studios to play in. If they did, we'd see more discussions on acoustics, heads and tuning than on wood types and drum sepcs.

Put simply, the better the source sound, the easier it is to get a great result. Heads, tuning, etc, does it really matter? Hell yes, unless you've got endless time in a high end studio, only to end up with something that's a manufactured imitation of a great source sound. What's the point in that!

I remember experimenting with boundry mic's in the studio some 30 years ago. Great natural kit sound, good accoustic setting, no close mic's. The resultant sound was fantastic. Really vibrant, alive, with depths and sweet tones that simply can't be replicated with ease. I'm not talking free form jazz stuff or similar here, I'm talking powerful fast paced rock. You wouldn't think it would work, would you? Oh boy, it did. Shame the recording was stolen many years ago otherwise I'd post a sample for you.

Not forgetting the player of course. That has I'd say the biggest impact. Whether they're playing consistent, etc. If you have the best mics in the world, the best kit in the world, the best tuner in the world and best desk in the world. If the player is rubbish it's going sound rubbish!

......I used the term "senior" as a reference to his experience beyond my own. It was not a technical designation of his standing in a particular studio.

I want to re-iterate that I am totally for tuning for the best sound possible, of course, but after reading some of the comments regarding advice for the best drums to purchase, I'd hate to have someone agonize over drum choice when as "Mad jazz" mentioned, heads, tuning and room acoustics are far more a determinate of a drum's sound then the type of wood or composite used to make the shell.

Here is a good example of that:

My friend and I had built a studio in the basement of his new home. Actually it was his entire basement. It had a control room, isolation room and a main room. It was actually quite nice. 16 track 1", mix to DAT.

I had a kit in there that was impossible to record. It sounded fine to your ear but I am telling you that no matter how it was tuned, what type of mic, type heads, what EQ......just horrible!
It literally sounded like someone kicking a wet suitcase when recorded. It was the way the room and the mics reacted, really pretty amazing.

Also, back in the 80's there was a band called Cinderella. I had done some video work with them previously and they knew about the studio and were interested in it to do some "idea" recording before burning expensive studio time at a big studio. Someone from the band's organization and the lead singer came to our little basement studio to check it out. Because I knew they were coming I had my best stuff mixed and ready to play for them, careful use of reverb and nice delay techniques on some vocal and guitar tracks. I was already to let them hear the best I had to offer. Of course, I did my best to hide the drum deficiency in the mix especially the kick drum.

They walked into the control room and the "manager type" guy said, " let me hear your kick drum" (insert crickets sound efx here) I was stunned. "That's it"?, I said. "yeah", that really determines the quality of the studio", he said.

So, I was mortified as I had to play just the kick track, dry right off the multi-track....wet suitcase city!

Not surprisingly we bought our first electronic drum kit right afterwords........sad I know.

Like I said before I have heard (with my own ears) no name kits with old heads sound so so the ear and just great in the control room.

True, Stoney no matter how good the instrument may sound.....if it ain't being played, you ain't gettin' paid!


Skip

All theses posts concern the science of acoustics. It really is a broad subject with almost infinite variables. A good acoustician(?) can look at a room and understand the weak points and strong points, and make the most out of what is there. How many times have my drums sounded just amazing in one room and unbeliveably lacking in a different room. Same drums, radically different results. Fascinating subject, one that requires diligent studying to achieve even a basic comprehension. I'd like to take some courses at a college for it.

The first time that I was in a recording studio was during the late 70s. They sat me down in the isolation room behind the house kit. I looked at the drums with tape on every head and I had this puzzled look on my face. The engineer said "Set your cymbals up and we'll set your sound". He proceeded to put tape on my cymbals. I played the kit and it sounded weird. The engineer said "Put the headphones on and I'll go in the both and EQ you". I couldn't believe what that kit sounded like through the phones after just a few mins of adjusting. Until that day I had no idea how drums were recorded! I never forgot the experience, I can still remember everything that happened that day. I loved the studio! I learned that to record drums during that decade, you had to make the kit sound like crap to the ear. All of the excess tones had to be muffled out. Tuning wasn't that important in that instance.

LarryAce and Bobdadrumma:

I actually had an acoustics class (it was a Physics course) is was called the acoustics of music (Temple Univ. in Philly - Radio TV, Film major) even that combined with decades of live and recording experience it still is surprising when things like that happen.

Depending on the room (studio) if it's a big space then the drums can sound good to the ear and in the control room. Usually, the smaller studio spaces run into the situations that we are discussing. But you are both right it is fascinating and sometimes the methods to achieve a particular drum sound are down right shocking.

I knew a engineer who would tape coasters (the kind you put a glass on so it doesn't make a mark on your furniture) to the base drum head, to get the "click" sound that was popular with the pop metal bands.

....lot's of crazy stuff.


Skip