Help a Dad out buying used set for son.

Don't let that deal get away from you, dad. Either of those kits are fantastic for your son - just pick the color you like. The deal he is offering is great, the drums and hardware are perfect for you, and your son will be ready to play. I'm afraid you may procrastinate too long and lose this deal.

By the way, there is absolutely nothing to worry about with the heads or hardware. It's good quality stuff. Like I said, it's ready to go and good quality. Don't miss out.

GeeDeeEmm
 
yeah that export kit looks like a great deal to me. I gigged my exports for 25 years. I'd be all over that. Then slowly upgrade cymbals over time as others have mentioned to Zildjian A's or Sabian AA's as budget allows.
 
Someone posted a Sabian XS20 cymbal pack on C/L this morning for $300.

Good used set of Sabian XS20 cymbals.

14” hi hats
16” crash
18” crash/ride
20” ride

No cracks or key-holing.

Look for something similar for your son. These would be great!
 
Nothing wrong with the Export set and Zildjian Z (series) cymbals. Perfectly fine for pre-teenager. The shell pack and hardware could very well take him all the way through high school.

I'd replace the Z (series) cymbals in a year or two or three. No rush there, though, either. Let his tastes form - he might end up absolutely *needing* the YYY series cymbals from the XXX company - just like that drummer in his favorite band!!

Paraphrasing what most folks have already said, cymbals each have a certain "voice." Finding cymbals that fit your needs and wants are an investment in time and money. Best to spend both wisely with forethought. Most drums can produce a sound *you can live with* with changes in heads and tuning.

For what it's worth, I bought a used Yamaha Stage Custom kit with 90's vintage Zildjian A's and K's. While I *knew* they were supposed to be good cymbals, I didn't like them. I actually listened - and mostly hated - them for almost a year. The listening paid off - I found that my cymbals had a sonic interval that was missing a voice. I bought a 15" thin crash to fill the void and now they sound like a real cymbal set!
 
Real cymbals don't have to only be B20, I and a lot of others happen to enjoy our B8 Paiste pro level cymbals very much.

That's simply not helpful information to the OP, though. Rather than confuse the issue by selectively naming the very small amount of B8 pies that aren't garbage, I just made a generalization that if you buy b20, alloy it's harder to get crap. That way he could easily get used stuff or a large number of "paired" packs while relatively easily avoiding the horribly named "student" level cymbals, which literally are the worst choice for any new drummer unless you really cannot fathom getting good ones. Crappy stamped cymbals do not play or sound like real ones, and they hold people back from developing good technique to pull out the best sounds.
 
Nothing wrong with the Export set and Zildjian Z (series) cymbals. Perfectly fine for pre-teenager. The shell pack and hardware could very well take him all the way through high school.

To be a bit of a broken record, I do not agree. Those stamped crap cymbals not only don't sound good, they don't teach you how to really use cymbals to get all the different sounds, because they're so one-dimensional and simply do not play like a better made cymbal; feel totally different.

The worst part is that new drummers cannot tell this. They don't know what it's supposed to feel like, or that they can't swell these the same way, or that the decay and tones are extremely one-dimensional and they don't "give" or react the same way to your strokes.

For a drummer, they may not be glamorous, but cymbals are a thousand times more expressive and important than the stupid drums will ever be. It's very important to not hamper yourself out of the gate with low quality cheapo garbage. I really, really wish I'd known that as a young drummer because at the time I just didn't know the difference and as soon as I got a few real ones my playing improved literally immediately.

It's not just about the sound. Crap stamped cymbal lines hold people back from sounding and playing their best. And it's not even that expensive to do it right. I sound bitter because I am.
 
There are 6 artists on the zildjian site that are ZBT users and Mike Mangini is one of them. They have their place.
 
Last edited:
There are 6 artists on the zildjian site that are ZBT users and Mike Mangini is one of them. They have there place.

Well what do I know then-I stand corrected, however I still say the 14 in crash sounds better with rivets ;) LOL. Maybe I should record them rather than listen with ears. I've heard too many tales of drummers using anothers kit thinking it sounded like crap (loose floppy heads, shoeboxes, etc) but once in front with the owner drummer playing them they sound great???? Sound waves do funky things and the ZBTs tend to have the higher frequencies which I can't hear squat. Recording with headphones tells the tale though I can hear with both hearing aids and headphones pretty well-I think. I'll give them another shot. I put rivets in al of them so I'll play the ride with rivets then remove them and play them. I'm leaving them in the crash her,hee,hee. I gave my son-in-law the hats though. If these sound better than my high end Zildjians I'm switching to Paiste LOL.
 
There are 6 artists on the zildjian site that are ZBT users and Mike Mangini is one of them. They have there place.

Some people like to use them as effects or alternate crashes, and some people get paid lots of money to pretend they like them or use them. Lastly, a few thrash/metal guys I know literally don't care what their cymbals sound or play like; as in half of their "good" cymbals are cracked and falling apart so why care kinda thing.

None of that really gets at my point though, which is their very real ability to hold back new players from understanding how good/real cymbals work, sound and respond. It makes you sound worse than you really do and hampers your ability to play at your personal best.

A set of standard Zil A's is such a better idea than buying this kid another drum kit.
 
Some people like to use them as effects or alternate crashes, and some people get paid lots of money to pretend they like them or use them. Lastly, a few thrash/metal guys I know literally don't care what their cymbals sound or play like; as in half of their "good" cymbals are cracked and falling apart so why care kinda thing.

None of that really gets at my point though, which is their very real ability to hold back new players from understanding how good/real cymbals work, sound and respond. It makes you sound worse than you really do and hampers your ability to play at your personal best.

A set of standard Zil A's is such a better idea than buying this kid another drum kit.

Arguments with merit Doc. I argue the same- you can get away with a cheap shell pack for toms and bass drum but good cymbals and snare really make a huge difference I think. What about a compromise-buy the kit-sale the ZBT cymbals and buy a good A's pack and that will last hm decades?
 
That's fine to get both, but I'm saying if we actually care about the kids playing and development, go after real cymbals before you buy a second drum kit. It makes no sense at all to keep "upgrading" a kit that the kid can't even tune yet when the cymbals make so much more impact in terms of learning and sounding decent.
 
That's fine to get both, but I'm saying if we actually care about the kids playing and development, go after real cymbals before you buy a second drum kit. It makes no sense at all to keep "upgrading" a kit that the kid can't even tune yet when the cymbals make so much more impact in terms of learning and sounding decent.

You are, as usual, totally right.
 
If the thread starter can buy a nice set of used A's for a nice price, then thats always a nice investment..

But to act as if a beginner needs high quality cymbals is nonsense..

When you give a random person a stick to smash a cymbal, a K Dark Crash will sound as horrible as some cheap entrance level cymbal..

Regarding playing-technique, the quality of cymbals starts to matter when being an intermediate player and up..And even in that catagory of players there are plenty examples to be seen where the quality of their cymbals is not mattering at all..

But thats basically because they are not intermediate or up..
 
If the thread starter can buy a nice set of used A's for a nice price, then thats always a nice investment..
They already started with a budget that is way more than enough.

But to act as if a beginner needs high quality cymbals is nonsense..
"high quality" is a weird term... All I'm saying is don't start out with an impediment to sounding good if you can help it. With a much smaller budget than the OP is talking about you can get real cymbals. This will matter infinitely more than a new drum kit for a new player, and that is not up for discussion because it's simple fact.

When you give a random person a stick to smash a cymbal, a K Dark Crash will sound as horrible as some cheap entrance level cymbal..
I don't think you thought this through before you typed it out. Because it's total nonsense. A trash cymbal will sound like a trash cymbal, a decent alloy cast cymbal will sound like a decent quality cast cymbal. It doesn't magically change sounds when you get better at using it, you're just able to use your skills to pull even more sounds out of it... But you cannot learn to do that if you don't have a cymbal that will react the right way to your playing.

Regarding playing-technique, the quality of cymbals starts to matter when being an intermediate player and up..And even in that catagory of players there are plenty examples to be seen where the quality of their cymbals is not mattering at all.
No. You need at least a decent tool set in order to develop your ability to use those tools. Learning on crap cymbals will stunt your growth as a player because it teaches your body to react to those crap cymbals and expect the limited (usually pretty horrible) range of sounds they produce from a given stroke or action. This isn't a case where it's basically the same thing, this is a case where from the ground up, those stamped pieces of sheet metal are not even close to the same except in appearance; they're literally harder to play for a worse sound.

Lastly, you're the only one here talking about K's. I'm giving sound advice to the OP to ignore another drum set and focus on something that will have a much better impact on this young drummers learning AND his sound. That can be a set of used A's for often a few hundred, or a pack of new ones for more since the budget is obviously there in this case. Beyond all this nonsense defending toy cymbal lines we do in fact have a topic on hand of a young drummer and his dad asking about upgrade advice. If you think the best advice is go ahead and upgrade the drums before you even get a single real cymbal, well, you're wrong, and that would be detrimental advice.
 
Regarding playing-technique, the quality of cymbals starts to matter when being an intermediate player and up..And even in that catagory of players there are plenty examples to be seen where the quality of their cymbals is not mattering at all..

No...this is just so wrong.

My starter kit, which was sufficiently recent that I remember it well, had dreadful CSO's (cymbal shaped objects) attached. At the time, my teacher had been unleashing me on "Jealous Guy", recorded by Bryan Ferry. The song builds up to a series of cymbal crashes. This was the first song that I ever tackled.

So, there I was, playing my kit, dutifully holding down a money beat, waiting for the treat that is playing a crash cymbal. The moment came and...KLANGGGG!!!!

I ordered new cymbals the next day.
 
..I don't think you thought this through before you typed it out..


Thats a little a weird habit that you seem to have, to constantly try to prove yourself as being the expert here, by breaking down posts to each sentence and replying to each sentence as if we are in court here..

For my feeling you gave your opinion about 23 times in this thread and i gave mine..

Thats about that..
 
While I recommended two other sets due to the included cymbals, I think that the Export would make for a great set because it's in very good shape and the hardware is really good.

The extra 16" Floor Tom could be converted to a 16" Bass Drum with Pearl's Jungle Conversion Kit for a few bucks, so there's the option of playing it as 16-12-14 without butchering the Floor Tom.
Selling the old set and the new cymbals could make enough money to get a set of nice cymbals if you're patient (I'd still ask the sellers of the two links I posted if they'd sell the cymbals separately). Cymbals don't cost a fortune to ship, so it should be no problem to find a good set for a decent price on ebay.

Search for used cymbals like Sabian AA / HH, Zildjian A, Zilco, Tosco, Zanchi, Istanbul, Diril, Masterwork, Dream for a start. Most companys offer budget line cymbals that are not so great, so just ask here and I'm sure that you'll get help whenever you decide that it's time to replace the ZBTs.
 
..No...this is just so wrong..


Before using again such big words, you might want to check out (amongst many other examples) this video..

This is what i call a guy that reached/demonstrates, regarding pop/rock drumming, a kinda intermediate level and these are the cymbals that we are speaking about here..

And, like i said before, this is a guy that would benefit from getting a pair of A's or, in his case even better, K's..To start learning to 'colour' and 'paint' more with his cymbals..

But to tell that this set of cymbals for a beginner till intermediate player is not ok enough and that such a set will hold a beginner back from learning proper technique, is just nonsense..Plain nonsense..

The first 3 words of my post that you replied to were 'Regarding playing-technique'..That means something different than cymbals that are not sounding nice to your personal ears..

And, like i also said before, there are many examples to be found from drummers with top range cymbals who sound way worse than this guy with his 'crap' ones..Because someone who can not play, will be perfectly able to make a K constantinople cymbal sound like a garbage can..

Thats a little exaggerated ofcourse, but you get the idea, i hope..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m6fw407Jus
 
Back
Top