Triplet note dilemma

C

Cyran

Junior Member
I've just recently started to study music theory because I'm a new drummer (started this year with no previous musical knowledge).
To get straight to the point. From a site (and I think many others use the same reasoning):

"• Sixteenth-Note Triplet: Equals two sixteenth-notes (or one eighth-note).
• Quarter-Note Triplet: Equals two quarter-notes (one half-note)."

To me this is wrong or just confusing. I guess that they are hinting at two pairs of sixteenth-notes and one pair of eighth-notes.

Because we know that: two eighth-notes equals four sixteenth-notes. Therefore in my line of reasoning, a sixteenth-note triplet is comprised of four eighth-notes, NOT two, as in the quote. Also how can a sixteenth-note triplet equal two sixteenth-notes when there is four whole sixteenth-note triplets in a bar of 4/4. So according to them there is only eight sixteenth-notes in a bar of 4/4? It's just so sloppy writing, they should say two pairs of sixteenth-notes!

Because how else would you point out a single note in a swing triplet like this:

https://imgur.com/a/9nMJTBF

If you follow the line of reasoning as in the quote then there is no way to describe the single notes in triplets. Because if you say quarter-note triplet and refer to a whole triplet containing three notes, then what do you call the single note to the left in the picture?

Obviously you cant call it a quarter note and if you call it a quarter-note triplet then many people think you are talking about the whole triplet.

So my proposal is to say for instance "quarter-note triplet-note" to properly describe the left note in the picture and clear up any confusion.

Or for instance when describing a 16th note triplet, saying that it has six 16th-note triplet-notes. That way you can talk about the individual notes within a triplet without any confusion.
 
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The individual notes in a triplet, are called partials. The first partial, second partial etc.

A 16th note triplet fits in the exact space of 2 - 16th notes, except you play 3 triplet partials instead of 2 - 16th notes.

Sorry if I am repeating stuff you already know.

The image you posted was of a 1/4 note and an 8th note. Which normally takes up the space of 3 - 8th notes. Except your example has a triplet designation over the 2 notes, which tells you it's a triplet. The triplet would take the space of 2 - 8th notes. I'm not a fan of writing them that way, but that's what you encounter reading music sometimes.

Different ways to write the same idea.

Which doesn't make it simpler, but it's a necessary thing apparently.
 
larryace said:
The individual notes in a triplet, are called partials. The first partial, second partial etc.

A 16th note triplet fits in the exact space of 2 - 16th notes, except you play 3 triplet partials instead of 2 - 16th notes.

Sorry if I am repeating stuff you already know.
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This is so confusing to me. You mean it fits into two pairs of 16th notes? Because from what I've learned 4 - 16th notes equals a 16th Note Triplet.

I just found this thread, I'm amazed that they are talking about basically the same thing and its not only me that's a bit perplexed by this.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126779
 
Think of it as 3 in the place of 2.

meaning: three 16th note triplets fit in the space of two 16th notes.

or three 8th note triplets fit in the space of two 8th notes.

etc.

It's just a naming convention, not a scientific thing.
 
Bonzo_CR said:
Think of it as 3 in the place of 2.

meaning: three 16th note triplets fit in the space of two 16th notes.

or three 8th note triplets fit in the space of two 8th notes.

etc.

It's just a naming convention, not a scientific thing.
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Here is the problem which my post was about! Because when you say three 16th note triplets it can be interpreted in two ways. Either you are talking about three whole 16th note triplets (which equals 18 notes) or you are talking about three 16th-note triplets within one single 16th note triplet.

I grasp the math 100%, its easy. What I don't like, or grasp, is the terminology/way to describe these things. It's very confusing because people use the same terminology to describe different things.
 
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From: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126779&page=2

Quoting Matt Ritter:

"I made sure to look in extremely reputable works by people like Vic Firth and Anthony Cirone. I found several examples of terms such as "quarter note triplet" being used in reference to the entire set of 3 notes. On the other hand, I also found examples where a term like this was used in reference to just a single note of the group of 3. In one drum book, the author actually went back and forth, using this type of terminology in BOTH ways a couple of times. Yikes! "

This is exactly what I'm talking about. How is this even possible? How can people that have played drums almost there whole life, make mistakes like this, or not be clear in what they are talking about? I just started and this dilemma stuck out to me like a sore thumb.
 
It's just the way it is. You have to adapt to it. It's not a perfect system, but it's perfect enough. I agree sometimes it seems like it's more complicated than it should be.

When someone says play a triplet, I take it to mean play all 3 partials as a complete triplet. If someone says play 3 triplets...they could be referring to playing all 3 partials of a triplet, or 3 complete triplets. It depends on the person saying it, and the context. Yes you have to figure out what someone means, as there is more than one way to explain it, and write it.

Keep asking questions like you're doing, and all the inconsistencies of interpreting the written note (and even the spoken word) will be internalized, digested and become a part of you.

I'm trying to figure it out just like you.
 
larryace said:
It's just the way it is. You have to adapt to it. It's not a perfect system, but it's perfect enough.
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The system IS perfect, there is just people that don´t understand it...
 
Alex Sanguinetti said:
The system IS perfect, there is just people that don´t understand it...
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Wrong! Its obviously not perfect. From my earlier post:

"From: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...=126779&page=2

Quoting Matt Ritter:

"I made sure to look in extremely reputable works by people like Vic Firth and Anthony Cirone. I found several examples of terms such as "quarter note triplet" being used in reference to the entire set of 3 notes. On the other hand, I also found examples where a term like this was used in reference to just a single note of the group of 3. In one drum book, the author actually went back and forth, using this type of terminology in BOTH ways a couple of times. Yikes! "
"

If its perfect how do you explain mistakes like this in reputable and well-known books?
 
The inconsistencies you cite....think of it like slang in a language, or inflections...dialects even.

For example I could say, oh man that car is bad looking.

How I say the word bad, and indeed the way I say the entire sentence, will give it either a positive or a negative connotation.

I was always under the assumption that perfection doesn't exist in nature.

Except for Bo, of course :)
 
Cyran said:
I've just recently started to study music theory because I'm a new drummer (started this year with no previous musical knowledge).
To get straight to the point. From a site (and I think many others use the same reasoning):

"• Sixteenth-Note Triplet: Equals two sixteenth-notes (or one eighth-note).
• Quarter-Note Triplet: Equals two quarter-notes (one half-note)."

To me this is wrong or just confusing. I guess that they are hinting at two pairs of sixteenth-notes and one pair of eighth-notes....
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You are just not getting it, it´s perfectly logic.

Get a REPUTABLE teacher, please!
 
Cyran said:
Wrong! Its obviously not perfect. From my earlier
Click to expand...

Because YOU dont understand you are not able to undertand what I wrote.

THE SYSTEM is perfect if you don´t understand it or someone (reputable or not) uses wrong terminology it doesn´t mean the system its not perfect...its just humans making mistakes.

Again, get a good teacher to explain it to you, you can take a lesson with me and I can explain it to you too...
 
Musical notation is very clear and simple. You obviosuly have to learn it step by step and understand the rhythms that it represent thoroughly, but it's a logical as can be.

Sort of have to agree with Alex.

If you don't get it, you've jumped over some basics.

I see some of these discussion sometimes, but it's not really up for discussion. It's just facts. You either learned the properly or not.
 
Alex Sanguinetti said:
You are just not getting it, it´s perfectly logic.

Get a REPUTABLE teacher, please!
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You are not getting it! Else why would professional/accomplished drummers talk about this issue (like here: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...=126779&page=2)
If it was so perfect and logical then they would not talk about it and mistakes would not have been made in books. A perfect system is clear-cut and constant. There is no place for confusion, especially not for experienced people.

And also please refrain from posting anymore in this thread. I don't like you or the way you come across. You asked me for money in DM, to give some simple advice, that I got for free in my other (first) post. And also, you are clearly ignoring what I'm saying or the thread I'm constantly pointing to.
 
Cyran said:
"• Sixteenth-Note Triplet: Equals two sixteenth-notes (or one eighth-note).
• Quarter-Note Triplet: Equals two quarter-notes (one half-note)."
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It would be clearer if it was written more conscientiously.

I would have written it like this:

Sixteenth note triplet: Takes up the space of 2 regular 16th notes. The only difference is you put 3 triplet partials in that space, not 2.

Quarter note triplet: Takes up the space of 2 regular quarter notes, but you are playing 3 triplet partials in the space of 2 regular quarter notes.
 
larryace said:
It would be clearer if it was written more conscientiously.

I would have written it like this:

Sixteenth note triplet: Takes up the space of 2 regular 16th notes. The only difference is you put 3 triplet partials in that space, not 2.

Quarter note triplet: Takes up the space of 2 regular quarter notes, but you are playing 3 triplet partials in the space of 2 regular quarter notes.
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Ok, could you please tell me where I'm wrong for thinking that a 16th-note triplet equals four 16th-notes? Because that's what I've learned and that's logical to me.

Like I said before it would be nicer (to me) if it said: equals two pairs of 16th notes. Because when you just say: "two 16th-notes", then I read that literally and it becomes wrong to me. Two eighth-notes equal four 16th-notes which equal one 16th-note triplet.
 
quarter note = 1 note per beat
8th note = 2 notes per beat 8th note triplet = 3 notes per beat
16th note = 4 notes per beat 16th note triplet = 6 notes per beat or 3 notes in the space of 2 16th notes.
 
Cyran said:
Ok, could you please tell me where I'm wrong for thinking that a 16th-note triplet equals four 16th-notes? Because that's what I've learned and that's logical to me.
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Dude.

3 whole note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular whole notes.

3 half note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular half notes.

3 quarter note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular quarter notes.

3 eight note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular eight notes.

3 16t note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular 16th notes.

3 32nd note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular 32nd notes.

It's quite universal.
 
mesazoo said:
quarter note = 1 note per beat
8th note = 2 notes per beat 8th note triplet = 3 notes per beat
16th note = 4 notes per beat 16th note triplet = 6 notes per beat or 3 notes in the space of 2 16th notes.
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I know all of that. I said it from the first post, and even in my recent post. There lies ZERO confusion for me with the math, the problem is how stuff are worded and talked about.
 
Odd-Arne Oseberg said:
Dude.

3 whole note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular whole notes.

3 half note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular half notes.

3 quarter note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular quarter notes.

3 eight note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular eight notes.

3 16t note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular 16th notes.

3 32nd note triplets would fit in the space of 2 regular 32nd notes.

It's quite universal.
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I just realized what I did wrong. I had it written out on a paper with 6 16th notes with just a single 3 above. I see now that it should be two.

So to get back on track. If someone says play four-16th note triplets? What do you do? I would just play 4 notes. One whole 16th note triplet and the last note that follows in the second triplet.

But I get it that most would play 4 whole 16th-note triplets (12 notes).
 
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