Recording equipment advice

Grace :)

Senior Member
Hi,so I'm looking to get into recording my drum parts, I already have a Zoom H2 recorder which is fine for quick recording of practicing or live performances, but I'm looking for something thats going to record my parts in better detail and then allow me to change the levels of each drum in the mix. But unfortunately I have very little knowledge about recording drums.

Would somebody be able to advise me as to what i would need to record and mix drum parts?

Obviously I'd need the microphones for each drum, and then overheads for the cymbals persumably. But after that I have no idea what else I would need? Do? I need a laptop or computer, and some kind of device to record all of the mics together?

If anybody has experience with recording and would be able to offer me some help that would be great. Thanks :)
 
Let's avoid the computer for now, and assume you just want to make a better stereo recording of your kit, utilizing the Zoom you already have.

I would get a small mixing board with at least 6 XLR inputs (the connector used on mic cables) where you can take the output from that board to your Zoom via the line out jack on the board.

Audix makes these little clip-on mics (ADX-90 I believe) for $70 each, you can get one for each tom and snare, get a bass drum mic for your bass, and get a pencil mic for your one overhead to start. You could get another pencil mic for your hi-hat. ACtually, depending on how many mics you buy, will determine how many inputs you should have on your mixer. So this could get expensive depending on how many mics you use.

But that would get you started to making better stereo recordings of your kit. If you want to record each drum on it's own seperate channel, then you're getting into recording separate tracks into your computer which is going to be an even bigger hassle, unless you're ready to tackle that kind of stuff.

I have the Zoom H2, and with my little Yamaha MG mixing board (6 inputs), I just put a mic in the bass drum, one on the snare drum, and use a fairly nice mic as my own overhead. I then take the stereo headphone output from the mixer and plug that into my Zoom and voila! Good drum recordings!

BUt I guess you must decide how you want to record and what kind of new stuff you want to learn how to do.
 

Ack!! Behringer is the scum of the audio world. Blatant ripoffs of existing equipment using bottom of the line parts and AQL assembly to save costs. Also the thing in the link only has two microphone inputs/preamps. You will want as many as you intend to have mics.

Used mixing boards are everywhere, very cheap. Especially the bigger chassis. I've got an Allen & Heath 24 channel board that I don't use anymore that I'll be lucky to get $300-400 for.

The score is to find some older British made mixer like Studiomaster, Tangent or Allen & Heath. Much better sounding than anything made by Behringer or Mackie. At least try to find a Yamaha before you settle for a Mackie.

There are lots of threads on micing a drum kit. And there are as many ways to do this as there are ways to set up a drum kit. Check out some recording boards and threads here on micing.

Don't run out and get a bunch of cheap mics just so you can put a separate mic on each drum. That only really gives an advantage if you have multiple dynamic effects that you can put on each channel. As with a multi-track computer recording program like ProTools, or a rack full of expensive gear (Last AES convention I went to was 50% fancy vintage style outboard dynamics processors for recording, big business and big bucks).

Start with a few mics and play around with positioning them. As you can afford more good mics, you can start adding individual drum mics and playing around with positioning them.

Positioning the mic is everything. You can make the best mic (or drum) in the world sound like junk with poor placement. Conversely, a cheap mic will always sound cheap and never give you a great sound, no matter where you put it.

If you look at recording forums, the money is in mics, preamps, and dynamics processors. In that order. Better studios are known by their mic locker. A fancy mixing desk gets folks attention, but the pros go for the mic locker.

A few good mics, in a nice sounding room, with good placement, will give you killer sounds. Many holy grail Bonham recordings were done in hallways with just a few mics. If you can get to that point, when you start adding mics, you will know how to get a killer sound out of each drum.
 
Let's slow down a little. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of Behringer stuff either, but you have to look at your budget and what you ultimately want to do. I know many people who own those little Behringer mixers (they make alot of different models) and have done acceptable things. I think the concern about them is about how long they will last. For the money, I don't want to have to replace it within two years, know what I mean?

Go to MusiciansFriend.com (or whoever you have in the UK) and look up "Mixing board" or "mixing console", glaze over the specs and see if you understand any of it. Good brands would be Yamaha, Mackie on the low end. Soundcraft makes good stuff too as does Allen and Heath, but their prices will jump up faster than Yamaha or Mackie.

As suggested below, you can start out by buying used, but for a beginner I don't really recommend that because then you have to know what you're getting into. If you want to do alot of research and learning before you buy, then buying used isn't bad. But at least if you buy cheaper stuff new, you have a warranty and proper documentation, etc.,...and out here in the states, we have a 30 day money back guarantee. So if it doesn't work out for you in a month, you could get your money back and try something else!

I have absolutely no problem with starting cheap, especially if you don't know how much your budget is going to be. There are 'ok' drum mic packs out by CAD and Shure that don't cost an arm and a leg, that do OK. You probably don't need top of the line stuff for what you want to do right now. The whole idea is to max out what you have, not have a bunch of pro stuff that you don't know how to use. Start small and expand as your needs increase.

Did you want to do multi-track recording? Or is the stereo recording as I suggested good enough to start? I've done some nice recordings with two mics on the kit, and a music track minus drums on another track all recording live to my Zoom recorder. Hell, now I can do that to a Kodak camcorder and make videos. Either direction will be new for you but the multi-track angle will be a steeper learning curve and more money.


Personally, I prefer live recording nowadays. I get my mix right and then hit 'record' and there it is! The end product is something that I can't fake!
 
Also depends on what your goals are for recording. You mentioned wanting the ability to adjust each drum track, for that you will need to mic each drum

I have found the Equation Audio Alpha drum mic set to be very good for the price ($200)
minus overheads. I use that set with a pair of decent overheads and am pretty pleased
with the sound but as always you have to start with good sound to get good sound so -
tuning tuning tuning.....
if you wanna go the computer recording route:
I aquired the Tascam us 1641 USB recording interface.
It's definatly the best bang for buck 16ins, 24bit and no latency. The preamps are just ok
sound wise but nice and quiet noise wise.

I use Cakewalk Sonor and it comes bundled with some nice plugins
Compression/eq/reverb is essential...IMO

Mics = $200 - $500 (with overheads)
Interface - $300
Sonor - $400
Total = $1200
If you are serious about getiting into recording/production, I would save up and go this route - you'll learn alot about recording - and it's a blast!

But let me just add that if your serious about getting a good drum sound for a demo/album
you would probably do better to take your drums to a properly outfitted studio.
They will have a better sounding room (very important) better mics and the know-how to mix it right.

If you are just wanting to record your practice to hear yourself back - then yeah get a couple cheap mics, a used cheap mixer and stereo out to your zoom.

Good luck:)
 
If you want to go with a computer based recording setup, there are many options, including the ones listed above. Here is what i use and the approximate cost. Note that i bought pretty much all of this stuff on e-bay so the prices are not retail.

Mics- i picked up each set for about $300 each. I use 2 Shure mic kits, one has a beta 52 for the kick and 3 sm57 (i use only 1, on the snare). The other kit has 3 pg56's that i use on the toms and 2 pg81's that i use for overheads. The second set also has a pg52 kick mic that i don't currently use.

Computer- I use a custom built PC that i also use for games and such. Make sure that you have enough processing power and ram to handle music and video editing. I have a quad core processor and 6 gigs of ram. Its hard to list a price for a computer since it varies so much!

Software- I use Cubase sx3 that a friend gave me a few years ago when he went to protools (it happened to be my very lucky day!). It's EXCELLENT software and WAY cheaper then protools. There's also cheaper software that will do the job just as well such as Cakewalk and free ones like audacity. You'll have to research alittle and find what's best for you!

Studio gear- I use a Presonus Firepod. It has 10 channels for input, but i only use the 8 on the front. Got it for $300.00 a couple of years ago. The sampling rate and latency isn't the best on it, but it gets the job done! For monitors i use a pair of KRK Rokit 8's. I have the gen 1's and i got the pair for i think $350.They sound FANTASTIC! I do need to pick up a sub one of these days.

Misc- I use an HP4 headphone amp from presonus, some custom made headphones (i soldered some decent speakers from another set of phones and a 1/4 adapter into some good ear muffs that are used for hunting/construction. They give me awesome isolation! Mic cables, speaker cables, snake (because my drums and computer are in different rooms!).



So all in all i have about $1600 or so wrapped up in recording stuff (note that i was gifted the software) and that doesn't include my computer.

Gear can get out of hand pretty quickly! You could easily go with a pc/laptop, the firepod, a couple or few mics and the software and some computer speakers for monitors.
 
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I did some reading and tried to look at what I needed and then looked at the yamaha models, and came across this one. It has 6 mono microphone inputs (well, 4 but two of the stereo inputs can function as microphone inputs) so I could have up 6 mics, which would be fine for my kit as I play a 4 piece, and then would probably add either one or two overheads so I would only need a maximum of six. And has six 'high performance' mic preamplifiers.

Everything else im still trying to understand. But this is in my price range, (just), so is this what I would be looking for?

http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/music_production/mixers/mg124cx/?mode=overview


and jayblazeff and spectron, thanks for the information about recording using a pc...but I think thats going to be just too expensive for me right now, as I only have one pc in the house which i couldnt move to be anywhere near my kit and cant afford £600 for a good laptop aswell. But if I succeed with recording with the zoom i may upgrade in a few years or so if I find that I need to.

And jayblazeff, I've been looking at some shure mics that come in a pack with 1beta 52a bass mic and 3 sm57 mics. Obviously I'd have to add the overheads seperately, so these appear to be the same/similar to the mics you used, would you recommend them?
 
Grace, that is a perfectly fine little mixer. I actually have an older one that I use for utility stuff and with some small powered speakers for bar gigs. Much better sounding to my ears than Mackie or anything Behinger.

The reason folks are talking about computers is that is the only way you can individually mess around with different drums after recording it.

Plugging a mixer into a stereo recorder will let you run more microphones, but you have to adjust things going in. Since you're playing, that will mean record something, listen to it, adjust the mixer, record and listen to the playback and again, rinse and repeat until you're happy. It can be a fun learning experience, but will be tedious. The combination of mic placement and mixer adjustments is interactive. You may pick up on how things work quickly, or you may be chasing your tail for awhile.

With a computer running multi-track recording software and an interface with enough channels, you are imitating the big boys with each mic on it's own separate channel. Which you can listen to one at a time (solo) to see what each mic is picking up, adjust independently to change the eq, add compression or gating, add reverb and so on. Up to the processing limits of your computer.

This is why I suggested getting a few good mics, a small decent mixer and learning how to position the mics first. By good mics, I don't mean you have to run out and get some Neumans. A good kick mic of the coloration you prefer (Shure Beta 52, Audix D6, AKG D112, various Audio Technica things and so on), a Shure SM57 or two, and a pair of the best small condensor mics you can afford, Oktiva, CAD, Shure AKG, etc...

Later on you can get tom mics when you've played around with close micing with the SM57 and gotten to learn what you like. Senheiser, AT, more Shures, or whatever.

Remember, Bo's post said he gets recordings he's happy with using a B52 kick, one good overhead and an SM57 on the snare. Really, that's all you need. Get that to sound good and you'll know what you are doing. That can make perfectly good sounding demos or youtube recordings.

Putting lots of mics around a drumset is an art. Sound from one mic mixes together with sound from another mic and can adversely affect the overall sound. That is why people who do this for a living still spend hours and hours "getting a drum sound" in the studio. It can be fun to play with and learn, but you can also drive yourself crazy with nothing to show for it.
 
And jayblazeff, I've been looking at some shure mics that come in a pack with 1beta 52a bass mic and 3 sm57 mics. Obviously I'd have to add the overheads seperately, so these appear to be the same/similar to the mics you used, would you recommend them?

Yes, those are the mics i use. The beta52-a is an awesome kick mic, used by many pros on stage and in studio (the AKG D 112 is also a great kick mic). the sm57's are great versatile mics. Usually used on snares when on drums, but can also be used on toms. They're also good mics for guitar cabs and even for vocals, i saw Tom Petty using sm57's for vocal mics on Saturday night live. I don't use them for my toms though, i use the pg56's because of their lower profile.

A mixer, kick mic and a couple of condenser mics would do ya well. Something i like to do with my "overheads", is to put them in front of my kit instead of overhead. I place them about 5 feet in front of my kit, about 4 feet off the ground, on the "edge" of the kit and angled in just a bit.

I wish Shure would make a kit with a beta52, an sm57, 2 pg81's and 3 pg56's. THAT would be a good drum mic kit for a person on a budget!
 
So I did have a question too then, I am just starting to record, and looking to get a mic setup.

I do like Shure and was thinking of getting the 6 piece set and adding the 4 piece add on, for around $650.

But the CAD's are sure (no pun intended) tempting at under $200 for the same setup...

Help please, pro's/con's, experience, opinions.

Thanks.
 
I bought a CAD mic pac some years ago. Took it to a gig where I was the house band for a jam night and mic'd up my kit (not typical for jam nights there, but they usually did it on weekends, just extra work for me). After sitting out front and hearing a couple of folks play the kit though the PA, I took them right down, and walked across the street (where the GC was at the time) and returned them.

I do have a couple of low cost CAD small condensor mics and one large diaphram condensor that are okay. But the dynamic drum mic pac they made was worse than useless.

AT makes some good sounding inexpensive mic pacs.

But as I and several others have said, multi miking a drum kit is not something you do on the cheap, and without experience in simpler mic set ups, and learning how to work the outboard things you need to get that multi/close mic'd sound.

Walk then run. By the time you learn to run, your experience in picking mics (and hopefully expanded budget) will guide you in how to get the sound you are after.

A few good mics will give better sound than a bunch of cheap mics. In fact a few good mics will give better sound than a bunch of expensive mics if you don't know how to multi-mic a kit (and remember that very experienced engineers and producers spend hours doing this).

Start with a kick mic you like the sound of. In order of natural to affected I would suggest EV RE-20, Beyer M88, AKG D118, Shure Beta 52, Audix D6. These are the most common kick mics. The EV's are popular with jazz where they want a natural and non-boomy tone. On the other end, the Audix D6 has a highly shapped scooped sound that is very modern. A good kick mic will eat some of your budget but you will be keeping it. Buy once, cry once. Then get a couple of Shure SM57s. One goes on the snare and the other goes somewhere over or in front of the kit to pick up everything else. You'll find a use for this mic later (under the snare, a high tom, room...) so don't worry about the $80-90 it costs you. Then after your budget has recovered a bit, get one or two small diaphram condensor mics. Don't need to be fancy. $100-150 each. Start moving these (along with the extra SM57) around the kit and learning how it sounds. Near, far, wide, crossed pair... There are a million things you can do with just this. Somewhere along the line, you can also get a cheap large diaphram condensor like an MXL and learn how it behaves around the kit.

Now you can go to the store and start listening to various mics. You've already played with close micing all your toms with the 57 and by comparing the sound of other mics to a 57 in the store, you can get a sense of whether they are going to have the right dips and peaks to get you closer to what you want for each drum. You've tried both the small and large diaphram mics over the kit, so now you can compare the pricier ones to see if their sound would suggest improvement.

Then, when you have a bunch of mics, all carefully chosen to sound the way you want them to, welcome to the world of multi mic interference and comb filtering. Now the trick is to learn how to position all these mics to not only get the individual sound you were after, but to not be some critical distance from each other so that when they are mixed together, the delay from one mixed with another thats closer to the drum doesn't create some flanged/phase shifted sound that wastes all that money you poured into all these nice mics.

edit, gee I guess I'm repeating myself here. Sorry 'bout that chief.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure about the last part, I don't know if that was intentional asshattery, or just un-intentional.

Thanks, for the opinion, even if I was too "stupid" to catch it the first time.

What I meant, was I am going to multi mic the kit, either with less expensive mics, to get the full effect, I don't mind time and experimenting as its for pleasure.

I was leaning towards, the Shure's, I was just curious, I was going to get:

THIS with THIS as well as a 57, for the snare.

Granted, I may not be a professional, but I did want to get something, that both, I can use, and I will grow into. That's not that big of a problem, and sorry if it goes against everything you would "bestow" on me.
 
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