triplet fills in 4/4

Liebe zeit

Silver Member
So, I've been determined to get these down for a while. I love that 60s UK jazz-influenced rock drummer scene and they all whack triplet fills into 4/4 grooves, Bonham, Baker, Moon etc.

Lately I've been trying to build them up from basic fragments, namely:

4 quarter notes followed by 4 triplets (R/L/F and hands only)

2 8th notes followed by 2 triplets (ditto the above) -- this is the first Stick Control 8th/triplets exercise too

I know where all the hits go, and can get it right over and over when doing it as an exercise, but am still waiting for it to come good during actual groove playing.

Did I miss anything I should be practising?

Probably not. I know I've just got to keep at it and it will come
 
So, I've been determined to get these down for a while. I love that 60s UK jazz-influenced rock drummer scene and they all whack triplet fills into 4/4 grooves, Bonham, Baker, Moon etc.

Lately I've been trying to build them up from basic fragments, namely:

4 quarter notes followed by 4 triplets (R/L/F and hands only)

2 8th notes followed by 2 triplets (ditto the above) -- this is the first Stick Control 8th/triplets exercise too

I know where all the hits go, and can get it right over and over when doing it as an exercise, but am still waiting for it to come good during actual groove playing.

Did I miss anything I should be practising?

Probably not. I know I've just got to keep at it and it will come


I am Sort of doing the same thing, I do not think you should wait for it to come though. I try to think of it while grooving then I throw it in, sometimes it works sometimes not so much but the only way your going to get comfy with it is to use it. Of course I only do it when practicing I would not try a new one on a gig.
 
I dream of a fill with 8 16th notes on the snare followed by 4 triplets (KRL) from led zep songs (whole lotta love) but the timing is elusive to my beginner ear. I can sing it but I lose time in the triplets when at the kit.

I practice just that to a simple beat and switch it between 16ths first followed by triplets and the reverse. It will comes with time.
 
I would recommend checking out some of the music that those guys were influenced by, namely jazz. Listening to jazz will help train your ear to hear triplet ideas much more easily.

This is good advice, I was going to say the same. If you're looking for examples of cool triplet stuff over fours, the jazz section is a fantastic place to start.
 
I find that when I practice something new in the practice room, it takes a few months before I can actually incorporate it into my playing.
 
I can't figure out exactly what you're trying to play based on your description, but I know basically what you're getting at. Here is how I would practice it. Play your grooves as normal (to a click), and when it comes to playing one of these new fills/licks, just play the rhythm on your snare only. Do this until you can play that snare-only fill easily. Then gradually introduce the kicks etc. What's happening is you're getting used to how the rhythm fits into the groove, and then all you have to do is move the notes to different drums.

Likewise with what toolate said, you should become adept at playing it just with your hands on one drum before moving it around.

If you have a drum machine application that will let you program the pattern, that would be a great way to learn this as well. Being able to listen to it will help you learn to feel it..
 
Ok, this is an interesting one. Back in the day, I used these fills a lot. You're right about the need to get them right. Because they're usually a heavy presence compared to the groove, they must be placed correctly and absolutely nailed. Bass drum placement is key here. it's the anchor that holds the fill to the groove & dictates a smooth fill exit.

Strangely, all those years ago, I found the most effective practice routine was the total opposite to my normal method. I usually advocate playing something at super slow speed so you're concentrating on playing the spaces. Playing the spaces, for me at least, is the key to crisp microtiming. In addition to the super slow regime, KLR/KRL/RLK & numerous variations all benefit from some super speed practice. Getting those triplets to really flow at high speed is a great way to nail the feel of the pattern. Practice between kick & snare first, then transport to other drum combinations. Bolting on the 8th or 16th LR sections is easy once you've nailed that kick placement in the triplet pattern.

Here's a clip of a band rehearsal first time out with our guitarist. I'm using a "cheat" fill here, as the kick is playing straight 8th notes through the piece, starting at the same time as the snare flam. it's an easy one as the kick keeps the fill absolutely bolted to the groove. It's a touch rough (sorry for this Larry, lol) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypxeXPCd6sI I use the fill a few times, but 3:33 is probably the easiest to hear on the exit of the refrain.
 
I dream of a fill with 8 16th notes on the snare followed by 4 triplets (KRL) from led zep songs (whole lotta love) but the timing is elusive to my beginner ear. I can sing it but I lose time in the triplets when at the kit.
The secret there is that that the 1s in your sets of 16th will also be the 1s in your triplets.

I do em the other way round (R/L/K) and the R is always on the beat for me. I think that might be an easier way to do it. A lot of what I've done so far on the R/L/K triplets is to get my right hand onto autopilot as the foundation of the thing.
 
I would recommend checking out some of the music that those guys were influenced by, namely jazz. Listening to jazz will help train your ear to hear triplet ideas much more easily.
I've been listening to (mostly Chicago) blues and the stuff that it influenced for decades, so I've got triplets almost hardwired. The difficulty has come now doing this stuff where I'm mixing straight 4s, 8s etc and 3s
 
If you have a drum machine application that will let you program the pattern, that would be a great way to learn this as well. Being able to listen to it will help you learn to feel it..
Yep, I do that. I use Ableton quite a lot for drums - visualising new grooves as you suggest, and also when I was rehearsing for a gig I'd programme all the grooves of the set into it and playalong once or twice a day
 
Practice between kick & snare first, then transport to other drum combinations. Bolting on the 8th or 16th LR sections is easy once you've nailed that kick placement in the triplet pattern.

Instead of snare and kick I use my kick and floor tom with a towel over it. I found it easier to make out any flaw in the timing of any of my hits because the two drums are closer in sound.
 
A technique I use for getting these tricky changes right is from the Louis Belson method... imagine you are a railway train.
Start slowly and build up speed in between stations, then slow down, stop, start up again and get up to speed. If you do this every day it's surprising how much progress you can make. If you record yourself you can hear it getting smoother.
 
Instead of snare and kick I use my kick and floor tom with a towel over it. I found it easier to make out any flaw in the timing of any of my hits because the two drums are closer in sound.
Yes, nice tip! Anything that cleans up the notes so you can really hear clearly, is a great idea. So much nicer with that floor tom rumbling though ;)
 
other things I'm doing/saying to get the relationship between 4s and 2 x 3s fixed . . .

saying: To-ber-Mor-y Pine-ap-ple Pine-ap-ple

When walking: count 1, 2, 3, 4 but add 'and' to the first two then 'and-a' to the second two
 
Here's one...LFF RFF L

On the first one your left hand hits the snare while the right hand crashes a cymbal on your right side, the second one alternates and crash a cymbal with the left hand on the left side of your kit.

Then do drop triplets followed by a kick where each count in the 4/4 measure looks like this...RLF F (1-E-& uh. 2-E-& uh....)
 
That's an interesting post...

In my earlier years I had a lots of trouble playing triplets in a 4/4 context. Not just the lick you describing, but triplets in general.

A fellow drummer show me an exercise as how to play 3 notes against 2 notes over 4/4 quarter notes groove/pulse.

You play 8th notes with right foot on kick and 8th notes triplets with right hand on snare and then switch and do the opposite, 8th notes triplets on right foot and 8th notes on right hand. You practice these with all four limbs allowing for all the combinations possible (left foot - right foot, right foot - left hand, right hand - left foot and so on) making sure that you switch the 8th notes and 8th notes triplets with each limbs combinations.

Once you're familiar with this, you can try a combination using the same concept but incorporating the four limbs.

Here's an exemple: Start with right hand 8th notes triplets on floor tom and 8th notes on right foot on BD, then the pulse of 8th notes on BD becomes a pulse of 8th notes triplets in relation to the left foot with Hi-hat playing 8th notes, again, the pulse of 8th notes on HH becomes 8th notes triplets in relation to the right hand playing 8th notes on snare.

This little exercise has helped me a lot in regards to triplets, but also in general playing allowing me to add binary feel to 6/8 & 12/8 bars and ternary feel to 4/4 bars.

Hope this helps
 
Just did that with my teacher for an hour or so and the best part it is that you can remove the parts you don't want to get to the elusive fill from whole lotta love.

No really it is the simplest way and it re he's your be brain and hands the rhytm of the odd time of triplets (it's unnatural really) and makes you stay in time.

This is a major hurdle for for me and I am sure there ar many experienced drummers who have been playing this stuff like breathing forever but it is an example of the hurdles we face and how some things are soooooo hard for some and a breeze for others. I love it.

Makes me feel good to know there are others offering my pain out there.
 
Back
Top