Graduation? No?

Mace170

Junior Member
Hello, DW! This is my first post, so if it's in the wrong section of the forum, please correct me!

Anyways, I've been playing drums for about a year and a half. I have a Peace 5 piece drumset, with Zildjian 16 Planet Z Crash, and a ZBT 20 inch Rock Ride. I practice for about 5 hours a day, doing all kinds of stuff (rudiments, fills, beats, improvs). Over the past few weeks, I think my playing has improved greatly, and I would rank myself as a beginner-intermediate player.

I was just wondering if there was any thing you must know. Almost as if you "graduate" from beginner to intermediate, and so on. Any beats, songs you must be able to play? Is there even such a thing?
 
Not really. there are no set rules or skill sets that distinguish levels. They all seem to blend as you improve. You won't be doing one skill tomorrow that will make you an intermediate. Just keep working and have fun. the day that you can quit doing anything else and make your entire living being paid to play then you will be a pro. Until then just keep learning.
 
Okay, then. But...in what ways do you qualify to be intermediate from advanced? What would the difference be? How would you advance from one to the other?
 
Okay, then. But...in what ways do you qualify to be intermediate from advanced? What would the difference be? How would you advance from one to the other?

The various stages of playing are not stepped in that way. Playing is a continual process of improvement and growth. Quite often as a player, you are actually in the worst position to judge where your playing is lacking or where your strengths are. It's very difficult to be objective about your own performance.

One of the big steps you can make is to go and play with others. If you can do that and do it with a good level of competence when performing live, then you are in a strong position to progress. If you can't or don't then you will find that musical growth is much more difficult.
 
Okay, then. But...in what ways do you qualify to be intermediate from advanced? What would the difference be? How would you advance from one to the other?

More often than not, what separates the two is nothing more than real world experience.

In the very least, it holds a hell of a lot more weight in a real world application than "chops" alone. Being able to play a certain beat, lick or fill may help....but it's never a guarantee.

Tastefull application is what separates experienced players from those who aren't.
 
Although I never believe in the "I have arrived" method of attaining anything, I think a good indication of how good you have become is who you get to play for and who calls you to fill-in for them. You can be a drumming/musical genius, but if it's just you playing you in your bedroom, then that doesn't count. It's almost as if your "level" is bestowed upon you by who you get to play and associate with. So think in terms of who your favorite pro musicians are. If they're calling you to play with them, you're on the right track.

You can't imagine the out-right fear I felt when I got to sub into a sight-reading big band and it was made up of the local pros who I was aware of but never met! I probably learned alot more by the dirty looks I got up on the bandstand than by anything I ever did in college! And I'll admit it here: it took several years before they called me back again :(
 
Great post Bo. Agree, the company you keep kind of defines your level more or less.

Great drummers get asked to play. Around me, it seems like there are about 25 so so drummers to one really good one. So the good ones stick out and get snapped up. It's comforting in a way to know that if you get good on the drums, the gigs will find you.

You have to get out there though. You have to be a player in the music scene around you. This is how it happened for me, I started out in the open mic jams, in a few months I got asked to join a band, we rehearsed a lot, played some gigs, all the while still going to the open mics and playing, then I started getting other opportunities...to sub, one off gigs...then I joined a 2nd band, which opened up a whole new bunch of contacts, then I joined a 3rd band in a different state, some bands fell by the wayside and I hooked up with other bands, next thing I know, everybody knows me and I can't do all the gigs offered, because I'm booked.

Get your hind quarters out there. Practice with a metronome. Record all your gigs and listen back hard. Practice with a metronome. Practice a lot, play with others more. Practice to a metronome, until you don't need one anymore. Play great drums with passion, but don't over do it. Act exactly like a pro would. You have to think and behave like a pro to be a pro.

This year I'm on track to play around 120 gigs or so, my best year since getting out there in 2003. I consider myself a part time drummer because I make my real money from my electrical service business. But when it comes to drums and drumming, I behave like a pro, because in my mind, I am.
 
We require a minimum of 2 cents for opinions. :p

Actually that is a great crystallization of a subjective subject.
 
At a practical level what separates intermediate from advanced is mostly a matter of timing and dynamic control and consistency.

my cent


I would agree as someone who considers myself a beginner- that is the most basic step but a huge one.

I would think that this and some basic 4 way independence would satsfy if there had to be some criteria. Some solid grooves, in decent time, using all 4 limbs.
 
Also remember it;s not the whole of the thing. You may be expert at double stroke rolls, and very basic when it comes to reading music or playing rudiments or your timing may suffer a bit. So to class yourself as wholly one or the other has flaws.
 
Ghost notes and grace notes and syncopation! I thought I was the bees knees when i learnt to use those a little bit (after that it was double kick). Of course I did it badly but it's okay to delude yourself at times, gives you confidence, is encouraging.Try playing along to Blood sex sugar magik by RHCP, that album is probably my biggest influence.
 
I'd say it's a mix of things.

How confident are you at playing things? Can you just sit down and play, could you do that in front of an audience?

The company you keep musically: are you jamming with a grade 3 guitarist or a dude who's been playing all his life?

Are you branching out and multitasking? Do you control all the techy bit (the backing track etc)

If you were to sit down to an exam, what grade would you play?

Play a basic beat. What tempo can you go to, how strong are you at it, can you do it blind? Can you improv from it, use accents etc.

Have you tried to teach someone else, or upload a video to Youtube or something?

Are you at the stage where you can sit down and competently play the first song that comes on (within reason of course! Haha)

As far as technique, how far have you gone? Can you double stroke roll? Paraddidle? Etc

There is no one answer to any of these questions, and I know beginners (as in played for only a couple of months) who can sit down and double it out at high speed, but they're still beginner. What do you understand about musical theory and what kind of audiences have you played in front of? Do you go to watch gigs regularly or go to drum events? These are all important. You can't advance yourself in the community or by skill or self if you don't go out there and watch, listen, adapt and learn.

Have you experimented with your set up? Can you tune or rehead your drums without help? (Some "pros" can't).

There is no "complete this to be this" guidance, and that's true in any instrument. A friend of mine had a bet with me, let's see who could play the highest Rock School drum grade. We both played a grade 8 piece after a couple of months, but that doesn't mean we were grade 8 players.

Don't worry about where you sit, just think to yourself "what can I play, will it get me money, respect and my name out there? Will people actively seek me out to play for them?"

Golden rule #1: there is always someone better.
Golden rule #2: there is always room to improve.
 
There are also multiple skills involved in drumming, and you're probably not at the same level in all of them.

Some guys have awesome chops, but are terrible at playing appropriate parts for the song. Some guys have the deepest and coolest grooves, but couldn't play a solo to save their lives. There are literally countless professional drummers in world famous bands that sound amazing when they play their stuff but couldn't even tell you what a paradiddle is.

There is a small number of players who seem to excel at every area of drumming, but most of us usually have to accept that we will be somewhat proficient at some things while not as much at others. For me personally, I see myself as a reasonably competent rock & roll band player, but I'm pretty much lost if I get asked to do some sort of solo piece (or play a fill for more than two bars, for that matter :)
 
Trying to post these beginner to intermediate labels on yourself is pointless, as most of the members here have pointed out.

There have been times in my development where I had thought I was getting good, but you always look back on those periods and know that you weren't as good as you are now.

I saw a great quote from a member here, something like;

Am I a good player? I'm better than I was yesterday, but not as good as I will be tomorrow if I practise tonight.

As for me personally, I played my second paid gig ever 2 weeks ago, by filling in with a band I had never played with before. Was given a few comments as to what to expect and then just winged the rest based on body cues and music knowledge. I got some positive feedback and was asked to play with these guys on a regular basis. I still consider myself a beginner but throwing myself into these situations gives me more confidence to call myself a 'drummer' first and foremost.
 
With that attitude you will do just fine. Attitude really is everything. It defines you as a person. Just keep throwing yourself in those situations, and watch those body cues, it's a winning formula. You can practice for years in your basement and it means almost nothing until you start playing with others. Showing up is 90% of your success.
 
Well, you're off to a good start. 5 hours practicing a day is more than most people here do so good going. Just use that time wisely. Jamming with other musicians is invaluable. Make sure you get some exercise and fresh air outdoors too :)
 
I was just wondering if there was any thing you must know. Almost as if you "graduate" from beginner to intermediate, and so on. ...

Learning to read was a big step for me, it allowed me to discover another approach towards my drumming in general.

Okay, then. But...in what ways do you qualify to be intermediate from advanced? What would the difference be? How would you advance from one to the other?

It depends so much on the appreciation and understanding of the word "intermediate" or "advanced", what does it mean to you? Should an "advanced" drummer be able to play in a variety of style of music? Should he be really good and mastering only a given type of music? Or do you mean only from a technical, independence and coordination point of view?

If I have to assess my drumming after 30 odd years, I'd say I'm a advanced player in certain aspect of drumming, but also, an intermediate, a beginner or even a newbie on other aspects of this drumming journey.

It's music, it's an art, and it's so wast that I feel I'll be an intermediate drummer for the rest of my life... and look forward to get better and better :)

my 2 cents
 
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