First Gig Noise Issue

Beater

Member
Hi all, not much of a poster here but major learning lurker.

I'm 57 years old and started taking drum lessons 15 months ago.
I started working on putting together a band 3 months ago.

I wish I could tell you about my journey the last 15 months, the lessons and endless practice, the investment in equipping a rehearsal room, the advertising for band members and the 25 or so characters that went in and out of my basement.

In the end I landed myself a high profile gig for May 2016 and as a result of that I met up with a group of decent musicians to play with.

Yesterday was my very first gig. A small bar. 3 one hour sets from 2-6 pm.
I did pretty well, not mistake free. (I've just learned 40 classic rock tunes in the last month, 12 in the last week)

We have two more of these lower profile gigs before the big one in May.

So everything is lining up well.

So now my point:

The bar manager yesterday complained that we were too loud, she could not talk on the phone or properly converse with her co workers.

I ended up playing the last set with my brushes for the most part.

I don't think that it was just me as I don't consider myself a loud player and I'm using the DW frequent flyers drum set.

As with most problems there seems to be a number of factors:
-sensitive manager
-poor acoustics
-no sound guy/girl , the board is on stage
-not everyone is running through the board

The folks that were listening didn't think it was too loud however they weren't trying to have a conversation either.

I look at this problem as an opportunity to learn as the gig in May is very sensitive to volume. I'm hoping to turn the May gig into a regular occurrence.

Looking for ideas.

Thanks

 
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Your band may have been too loud.
However, a live band + a small bar + classic rock will never allow for normal conversations and talking on the phone.

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This is an awkward situation and one I've been in myself. To be honest if you're not a heavy hitter and you were using the Frequent Flyer kit then you probably weren't too "loud", however loudness is very subjective.

After a recent debacle of our own, my band turned over a new leaf. The guitarists set their stage volumes as low as possible while remaining comfortable. They, the bassist, and the singer all then went through the desk to the PA. The bass player, who does our sound, said that we were no quieter than usual, however the overall mix was far more pleasing to the ear due to both guitarists being heard through both speakers (as opposed to the audience hearing mainly only the one they were sat in front of) and the singer sitting in the mix in those speakers instead of separate to everything else. The monitors were set at a lower volume due to the comfortable stage levels and all worked well.
SO, either consider putting everyone through the board, OR the bar manager was being unreasonable (and this IS commonplace). This is Classic Rock for heaven's sake and while bands shouldn't turn up to 11 (and I'm sure you weren't), they also shouldn't be expected to turn down to 1. I mean, brushes!! For Rock!!! For goodness sake.
On a positive note, if the bar where you're getting the gig knows what they're doing then there's every chance that what you do now will be perfectly accepatable.
 
One thing that struck me immediately when looking at your band photo was the fact that even though the vocalists and guitarists are amplified, you are playing an un-miced kit.
Two scenarios I see in this:
A: You were playing harder to compensate/maintain balance on stage.
B: Your playing was in a perfectly acceptable dynamic range but the offended individual heard nothing but the amplified players.

It's a tricky situation that will vary by the acoustics/size of the venue you're performing in.

Keep at it brother, 57 is the new 30.
 
It looks like your singers are singing too hard! j/k.

Since the owner writes the check, I would accommodate her. Something was too loud, turn that thing down. Probably the guitar.
 
Get some other musicians come to your next show to point out who's committing the foul.

The venue owner is always correct when it comes to things like - the volume level they want in their establishment.
 
Play quieter.

Try hot sticks.

I have a similar problem at some gigs: The noise of the audience talking is so loud that the band can't hear our own instruments. We have to turn the volume up just to hear ourselves. Is this what happened to you?

I like electronic drum kits because they have a volume control.
 
For a R&R band to sound good at low levels, you need experience players who know how loud/quiet to adjust their amps and you probably need really light sticks, thin cymbals and a toned town snare drum.

I never have too much trouble plying the drums with a soft touch but I haven't been able to crash a cymbal properly with a light touch.





Your band may have been too loud.
However, a live band + a small bar + classic rock will never allow for normal conversations and talking on the phone.

.


Never say never.

You have to incorporate some technology but I do it all the time.

R&R acoustic drums are flat out loud and they generally set the bar for everyone else. Then you have several players who set their own levels. It gets out of control easily.


I have a band that can play R&R at juke box levels if necessary.
We have zero stage volume. Everything goes through the PA.

The one limiting criteria is that we must play loud enough to cover the slap of the E cymbals, and that is about as loud as a loud stereo. Everyone hears the same great mix, the vocals don't get buried and our ears never ring.

If we want to play louder, we simply turn up the master volume.
 
First off congrats on a great start for learning so quickly in the past 15 months.
The 'dynamics' learned for loud/quiet passages in songs, now can be applied for playing quieter in small places.
Some tips already - smaller sticks, lighter touch, not crashing fully by using tips (not shank) on crash cymbals, and maybe muffling the kick drum. A light dishcloth over the snare can help with the crack. You basically have to lay-off. And yes your guitar buddies will have to turn down too.
 
Thanks so much for the suggestions and ideas, I've learned so much from this forum.

I'm going to take some steps to play quieter the next time we play at this venue.

-More muffling in the kick
-lighter sticks and perhaps those plastic brushes with the roll up elastics
-resist the lure of the big crash

I'm also going to ask my band mates to run everything through the board as I think that we were loud, not just me.

If that doesn't work I could bring my e kit to the third Sunday afternoon gig at this location.

The gig in May is in a Brewery/Restaurant/Bar in a tony neighborhood that is scheduled on a Friday night. It will be busy with lineups to get in. It pays well by local standards and there is the potential for a regular booking as they are expanding to a second location.
They have already told me that if we are too loud we won't get booked again.
My drum teacher has agreed to be our sound guy so that should really help.

So as it turns out this sensitive Sunday afternoon bar manager is fortuitous.
 
Don't beat yourself up over this one. If I had a pound for every gig where the people booking me didn't know that a band is louder than they thought or drums come with a volume knob I'd be a very rich man!

You're obviously not that loud because you're unmiked. So the band can only be as loud as you.

Please don't put more padding in your bass drum, you'll lose the feel of the drum. I usually keep a pair of light sticks the Steve Gadd ones are pretty good. The problem with hotsticks is they're expensive and break really easily. If the tickling sticks are proving a problem put a bit of tape on your heads to deaden them but take it off after the gig or you'll ruin your heads.

But nothing sounds worse than quiet classic rock where everyone is stiff because they're trying to play quietly.
 
Not only is playing real important, beyond that, the overall volume, and mix/blend of the instruments, and the way the PA sounds is crucial. A good clean crisp vocal coming out of the PA is extremely helpful. I've had to adapt my playing so I can play lighter in most of the rooms I play, and I pride myself in having that ability when needed. It was sink or swim.

Just know that as long as the meter is steady and the tempos feel good, don't think that by playing lighter, energy is lost. It's not. That's all in your head. Try and be secure that a light volume from you....sounds better than you may give credit for.

Also, you can absolutely be too loud unmiced. And just because you play a set of Frequent Flyers doesn't mean you can't get too loud. They are acoustic drums and can clear a room in seconds. If you hit 75% less hard, it will have a positive cascade effect on the other band members. If you relax, your guitarists can relax. It's all about relaxing, being secure that everything is OK, keeping the time steady, confidence that at a light volume you can still cook.

Keep that volume under control
. Of course it's not all on you...but you do set the "floor". Don't make the "floor" too loud. Less truly is more in that situation. This is easier said than done. Choke up on your sticks is one tactic. Volume management is crucial for continuing work. It's probably the single most important thing in getting hired back, the bands volume. Record your gigs and listen back.

People have to be able to hear drink orders. Patrons need to converse without screaming in ears. Don't make it difficult on EVERY PERSON IN THE BAR by playing too loud. It's a band death sentence, Take it seriously, very seriously. The others need to take it seriously too. My best gig....we have it because the whole band knows how to play at the right volume for this place. It is very much appreciated, we hear people tell us.

They love us because we're enjoyable and appropriate, with a good crisp sound. My bandleader is a first class audio engineer too, so our PA always sounds crisp. I can't express how important the PA sound is. Record yourselves. Listen back. Make adjustments. There's nothing more important for future gigs (in a volume sensitive situation) than volume. It's that important.
 
I have experienced the same issue. My band practices in a basement which doesn't bode well for acoustics and the drums would overpower, especially the cymbals. I'm not a particularly heavy hitter but when my emotion gets involved I can get carried away. We also play small venues so volume is a concern there as well. I have found that ProMark Lightning Rods are ideal. They quiet the kit while maintaining tone and feel.
 
they don't like to hear it, but it's the guitar player. the frequencies of an amplified electric guitar are such that they are more quickly perceived as loud. Add to that the fact that most guitar players feel like their amp doesn't sound good until you turn it past a certain point, and it's a recipe for too loud.

Now, having said that, try telling a guitar player he's too loud. You usually won't get very far. It's not you.
 
If that's representative of how you and your band play, then any bar manager complaining about noise needs to cancel all future bands forthwith and play background music to his clientele through a small stereo. I'm thinking of one with no more than 2.5w per channel, turned up to about 3.
Your playing there was about as restrained and punter friendly as I've ever seen, turn it down any more and your band may as well not bother. It only confirms my earlier hastily made opinion that the bar manager who complained in the first place is an idiot.
 
Guitar and bass too loud for a small place. Almost go acoustic in that situation. The fact that the singer can barely be heard is an indication the guitars are too loud. Accompany the singer, don't compete with him.
 
Two things.
The guitars could turn it down a little. But it sounds like soft rock to me. And your drumming is not too loud. It's just right. I think the bar manager does not like rock and roll.

The other thing is the acoustics of the room are not good. Small bars and clubs that host bands on a regular basis usually have some sort of sound proofing on the walls, floors, ceilings etc. For example, you guys were playing on a hard tile floor. This causes the sound to bounce around all over the place.


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Thanks for the comments so far. I should have added that there were no volume complaints this week. The bar manager was in attendance but she was off duty and drinking. People were dancing and seemed to be appreciative of the music. Some songs would have been less restrained. My son just happened to record this one.
 
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The gents playing lutes need to be able to hear themselves well enough to play.
The venue owner thinks it's all too loud.

Take the guitar amps. Put them on a wedge stand so they're pointing at the guitarist's head. If that's not enough, put them in front of the guitarist facing backward like a vocal wedge.

Guitarists can now hear themselves. Audience isn't getting blasted.
 
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